What exactly can the WSO do that the pilot can't

[PD919]

I'm trying to figure it out.  Is the WSO solely to split the workload or are there some important functions that we won't really be able to take advantage of outside of multicrew?

[Deano87]

As I understand it, There are a few switches and systems that need to be powered up in the back (there will likely be keybindings or some solution for turning those on from the front when flying solo). But apart from the obvious disadvantage of being one brain and 2 eyeballs down, you should be able to employ all systems/weapons from the front seat. 

[Scott-S6]

The big advantage to the WSO's seat is ergonomic. They have two proper joysticks for slewing sensors rather than a throttle mounted mini-stick and they are able to have two sensors of interest selected at once rather than one.

[Deano87]

9 hours ago, Scott-S6 said:

The big advantage to the WSO's seat is ergonomic. They have two proper joysticks for slewing sensors rather than a throttle mounted mini-stick and they are able to have two sensors of interest selected at once rather than one.

The two hand controllers in the back for the WSO are not movable sticks. All the slewing is still done by mini-sticks at the top of them under the thumb.

[Scott-S6]

4 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

The two hand controllers in the back for the WSO are not movable sticks. All the slewing is still done by mini-sticks at the top of them under the thumb.

Interesting, cheers. Nonetheless, the ability to manipulate two sensors is very useful, especially with the ground radar being a little slow. A WSO that's good at multitasking will be a serious force multiplier.

[Deano87]

@Scott-S6 Absolutely agree!

[sirrah]

On 1/7/2023 at 2:34 AM, PD919 said:

I'm trying to figure it out.  Is the WSO solely to split the workload or are there some important functions that we won't really be able to take advantage of outside of multicrew?

I asked about the same question a few months ago. Despite the thread being derailed out of control by a certain someone, Notso himself gave this answer at some point:

 

 

 

[YoYo]

Btw. Does is exist any preview (video) how WSO works in F-15E model? I didnt noticed it yet or maybe I miss something.

[Nahen]

11 hours ago, YoYo said:

Btw. Does is exist any preview (video) how WSO works in F-15E model? I didnt noticed it yet or maybe I miss something.

[YoYo]

5 hours ago, Nahen said:

Nice but it isnt from DCS :D! If WSO isnt ready yet (as a Circle menu like Patrovich, Jaster or George) it could be a long way to release still. Maybe beginning of 2th Q’23.

[Deano87]

@yoyo

WSO AI will not be released with the module, but will come later. And it’s no problem as all weapons and sensors can be used from the front as well. It’s not split duties like the F-14, it’s shared.

[YoYo]

14 hours ago, Deano87 said:

@yoyo

WSO AI will not be released with the module, but will come later.

Really? Im disappointed  , I didnt see this info before. I didnt expect full working WSO AI but basic commands and reports. Bad news on this morning.

Edited January 14, 2023 by YoYo

[Nahen]

16 hours ago, Deano87 said:

@yoyo

WSO AI will not be released with the module, but will come later. And it’s no problem as all weapons and sensors can be used from the front as well. It’s not split duties like the F-14, it’s shared.

But it will be full of fun to put it in the cockpit And what if somebody get do you get someone with a fear of heights?

[Deano87]

4 hours ago, YoYo said:

Really? Im disappointed  , I didnt see this info before. I didnt expect full working WSO AI but basic commands and reports. Bad news on this morning.

 

Why do you need them? You can fly it like a single seat aircraft like the F-18 or F-16. Or you can fly with a friend in the back and share the load.

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, Deano87 said:

Why do you need them? You can fly it like a single seat aircraft like the F-18 or F-16. Or you can fly with a friend in the back and share the load.

AH-64, F-14 and Mi-24 you can also fly alone and even switch between stations. The difference is that the AI takes over the second station, so you can operate whatever you want yourself. If there is no WSO AI for good morning, well, you will probably survive, but the model is neutered for good morning by about 30% of fun. 

At least the basic functions like reports, fighter protection or taking over the controls (autopilot) should be there. It's not good news that it won't be there right away. We'll probably see in a year, not earlier looking at the progress of work.

 

[Cab]

32 minutes ago, YoYo said:

AH-64, F-14 and Mi-24 you can also fly alone and even switch between stations. The difference is that the AI takes over the second station, so you can operate whatever you want yourself. If there is no WSO AI for good morning, well, you will probably survive, but the model is neutered for good morning by about 30% of fun. 

At least the basic functions like reports, fighter protection or taking over the controls (autopilot) should be there. It's not good news that it won't be there right away. We'll probably see in a year, not earlier looking at the progress of work.

 

Well, it’s only Early Access so you might be happier holding off buying it  until the AI WSO is included. 

[YoYo]

15 minutes ago, Cab said:

Well, it’s only Early Access so you might be happier holding off buying it  until the AI WSO is included. 

This is not an excuse because RIO has been in every EA and Im sure it will be in HB F-4E from the beginning of EA as well. I don't expect miracles, but at least the basics. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the Razbam's F-15E, I'll take it the first day, but unfortunately Im disappointed by the lack of WSO for good morning. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by YoYo

[PD919]

22 minutes ago, YoYo said:

This is not an excuse because RIO has been in every EA and Im sure it will be in HB F-4E from the beginning of EA as well. I don't expect miracles, but at least the basics. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the Razbam's F-15E, I'll take it the first day, but unfortunately Im disappointed by the lack of WSO for good morning. 

 

Based off what was explained here, the RIO/WSO is not necessary for the Strike Eagle to operate.  Maybe you have to jump in the backseat for a second to start one of the systems or something, and then you can do everything from the cockpit.  F-14 is literally impossible to use without a RIO.  RIO aligns the INS.  RIO does all of the radar work in BVR, etc.  I'm assuming the Phantom needs the RIO like the F-14.  

[Cab]

39 minutes ago, YoYo said:

This is not an excuse because RIO has been in every EA and Im sure it will be in HB F-4E from the beginning of EA as well. I don't expect miracles, but at least the basics. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the Razbam's F-15E, I'll take it the first day, but unfortunately Im disappointed by the lack of WSO for good morning. 

 

Not an excuse, just a reality. The only alternative would be for Razbam to delay the launch of the F-15E, which is absolutely not necessary.

Also, as many people have already stated, the requirement for a RIO to fight in the F-4/F-14 does not translate to the Strike Eagle. 

[YoYo]

29 minutes ago, PD919 said:

Based off what was explained here, the RIO/WSO is not necessary for the Strike Eagle to operate.  Maybe you have to jump in the backseat for a second to start one of the systems or something, and then you can do everything from the cockpit.  F-14 is literally impossible to use without a RIO.  RIO aligns the INS.  RIO does all of the radar work in BVR, etc.  I'm assuming the Phantom needs the RIO like the F-14.  

Sorry. The same applies to other models. However, the discussion is not about whether it is needed or not. It's nonsense . If it wasn't needed, there wouldn't be a WSO in real life too. The pilot has other tasks, WSO other. Even if it can support similar functions. Let's add that the F-14 pilot can also easily manage the armament. Radar is another matter. So the question is, if I will jump to the WSO position, the model will still be controlled by AI in this situation, which can be given basic commands (fly straight, direction, altitude, etc.? Basic WSO/Pilot features should be implemented even if it takes a month longer.

[Cab]

15 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Sorry. The same applies to other models. However, the discussion is not about whether it is needed or not. It's nonsense . If it wasn't needed, there wouldn't be a WSO in real life too. The pilot has other tasks, WSO other. Even if it can support similar functions. Let's add that the F-14 pilot can also easily manage the armament. Radar is another matter. So the question is, if I will jump to the WSO position, the model will still be controlled by AI in this situation, which can be given basic commands (fly straight, direction, altitude, etc.? Basic WSO/Pilot features should be implemented even if it takes a month longer.

So, you think they should delay the launch entirely until functionality you deem essential is added. But you don't consider it so essential that it will prevent you from buying the module as-is.

Go figure.

[Nahen]

Perform any mission in F-14 without RIO, Perform any mission in AH-64 without gunner, Perform any mission in Mi-24 without gunner... Now perform any mission in F-15E without WSO...

So, with the exception of the F-15E, each of these machines is 30% usable and the F-15E about 80%. Is there a difference and possible sense of releasing the module without WSO?

[Cab]

37 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Perform any mission in F-14 without RIO, Perform any mission in AH-64 without gunner, Perform any mission in Mi-24 without gunner... Now perform any mission in F-15E without WSO...

So, with the exception of the F-15E, each of these machines is 30% usable and the F-15E about 80%. Is there a difference and possible sense of releasing the module without WSO?

Yes to both questions. 
 

[YoYo]

58 minutes ago, Cab said:

So, you think they should delay the launch entirely until functionality you deem essential is added. But you don't consider it so essential that it will prevent you from buying the module as-is.

Go figure.

Please read carefully. Maybe you don't understand what was written. There's a difference between "not buying" and "being disappointed". I will not translate what has been written because I think it is clearly stated so please don't put words in my mouth. 

[Cab]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

Please read carefully. Maybe you don't understand what was written. There's a difference between "not buying" and "being disappointed". I will not translate what has been written because I think it is clearly stated so please don't put words in my mouth. 

 

2 hours ago, YoYo said:

Basic WSO/Pilot features should be implemented even if it takes a month longer.

This is what I was referencing. I wasn’t putting words in your month.

You clearly feel strongly enough to think the launch should be delayed, but not strongly enough to forgo buying it on the first day.