I'm concerned with DLSS

[Surfingnet]

As far as I know, there's one little part of the DCS experience which can be summarized as "where is that damn black pixel in the sky?".

We all have been there, especially VR user with the lower resolution of their screens compared to standard flat or curved ones.

Now, DLSS in DCS has been announced. I love this technology and I will use it for sure for the extra fps, but I'm consered about something. DLSS takes a lower resolution frame before upscaling it and displaying it. I think you already got the point. The black pixel on the screen will eventually appear way way later because an object will have to be closer to the camera to actually fill enough space inside a pixel to fill it enough and make it have it's color. (because at lower res, a pixel takes into account a higher volume, lowering the footprint of an object's color onto the actual color of the drawn pixel if it's not filled entirely by said object)

If you're not familiar with how a pixel is drawn regarding the rendering of a 3D space you can look at this vid (it's about downscaling in CSGO but it demonstrates very well what I'm talking about)

Spoiler

 

So my request is that developpers could tell us more about how DLSS will behave in DCS. There's no need to prove once again that it's an fps booster, we know that, but I'd personnally like to hear someone at ED tell us what they think of the visibility in dogfights when it's ON. Does in need MSAA x4 to actually have the little dark pixel in the sky ? x8 ? Hear me out, I love this game and I'm not being salty (for something I haven't even seen yet), I'm just craving some more details than just "we're dropping DLSS in the game". Hope it makes sense despite my average english.

[okopanja]

I gather there will be options to turn off and configure.

[falcon_120]

I dont see how ED can have those concerns in mind when they are dealing to incorporate a technology very demanded by its client base.

It will be an option you can turn off or on, period. if something does not play along well on your system or there are downsides like the one you mention you will have live with it, but no way ED can be asked so much as to address those potential problems now.

Let's get it first and we'll see...

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[ColinM9991]

17 hours ago, Surfingnet said:

there's one little part of the DCS experience which can be summarized as "where is that damn black pixel in the sky?".

The solution here, really, is for a smart-scaling solution to be implemented (which some other combat flight sims do), maybe as a difficulty option, while being done in such a way that server admins can override a players choice to ensure all players conform to their servers standard. That way, casual or PvE servers can allow smart scaling whereas PvP servers can disable it.

Every time smart-scaling is suggested you get the "blowhards" who try to dictate how others should play the game. The option should be there and it should be configurable.

Edited January 13, 2023 by ColinM9991

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, ColinM9991 said:

The solution here, really, is for a smart-scaling solution to be implemented (which all other combat flight sims do)

Smart scaling isn’t used by all other CFS games. To my knowledge it’s only used by one. It’s not an ideal solution as it can be visually ugly when showing aircraft out of scale with nearby context. 

[ColinM9991]

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Smart scaling isn’t used by all other CFS games. To my knowledge it’s only used by one. It’s not an ideal solution as it can be visually ugly when showing aircraft out of scale with nearby context. 

Updated my quote.

In terms of the disadvantage, if it were a configurable option then that would be down to the user to accept the consequences of enabling this. Maybe another option is to allow better in-game configuration of the dots as currently that can only be done by manipulating some LUA files.

[Lurker]

My concern with DLSS is that it doesn't work with VR. In fact it does nothing for VR, but it should help those who have recent Nvidia RTX cards but not the most powerful of PCs, but who don't play in VR. 

[XCNuse]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

My concern with DLSS is that it doesn't work with VR. In fact it does nothing for VR, but it should help those who have recent Nvidia RTX cards but not the most powerful of PCs, but who don't play in VR. 

There are a handful of VR titles that support DLSS.

Will DCS be one of them? Guess we'll have to wait and find out.

 

In the meantime, means I don't have to save up the remainder of the year for a new GPU with these outrageous prices, and means I might be able to buy a module instead.

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, XCNuse said:

There are a handful of VR titles that support DLSS.

 

Really? Which ones are those? Everything I've read about DLSS points to it being completely and utterly useless in VR. 

[tomcat_driver]

18 hours ago, Surfingnet said:

As far as I know, there's one little part of the DCS experience which can be summarized as "where is that damn black pixel in the sky?".

We all have been there, especially VR user with the lower resolution of their screens compared to standard flat or curved ones.

Now, DLSS in DCS has been announced. I love this technology and I will use it for sure for the extra fps, but I'm consered about something. DLSS takes a lower resolution frame before upscaling it and displaying it. I think you already got the point. The black pixel on the screen will eventually appear way way later because an object will have to be closer to the camera to actually fill enough space inside a pixel to fill it enough and make it have it's color. (because at lower res, a pixel takes into account a higher volume, lowering the footprint of an object's color onto the actual color of the drawn pixel if it's not filled entirely by said object)

If you're not familiar with how a pixel is drawn regarding the rendering of a 3D space you can look at this vid (it's about downscaling in CSGO but it demonstrates very well what I'm talking about)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So my request is that developpers could tell us more about how DLSS will behave in DCS. There's no need to prove once again that it's an fps booster, we know that, but I'd personnally like to hear someone at ED tell us what they think of the visibility in dogfights when it's ON. Does in need MSAA x4 to actually have the little dark pixel in the sky ? x8 ? Hear me out, I love this game and I'm not being salty (for something I haven't even seen yet), I'm just craving some more details than just "we're dropping DLSS in the game". Hope it makes sense despite my average english.

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Really? Which ones are those? Everything I've read about DLSS points to it being completely and utterly useless in VR. 

Before taking any conclusions, you really should wait. At this point it's all expeculation.

Edited January 13, 2023 by tomcat_driver

[XCNuse]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Really? Which ones are those? Everything I've read about DLSS points to it being completely and utterly useless in VR. 

Here's a link to the announcement two years ago:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/may-2021-rtx-dlss-game-update/

 

But I'm with TD here. Any discussion is pure speculation.

All we have to go off of is this:

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

Before taking any conclusions, you really should wait. At this point it's all expeculation.

 

These are not some random musings, as a VR enthusiast I have taken the time to research this. Please name one VR game that uses DLSS to increase it's frame rate. Just one. I'll wait. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Lurker

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, ColinM9991 said:

In terms of the disadvantage, if it were a configurable option then that would be down to the user to accept the consequences of enabling this.

The trouble with a setting like this is that it’s divisive in multiplayer. This is sorta off topic and has been discussed a lot here. ED does not seem to have any interest in smart scaling. It’s not a very good solution. 

[XCNuse]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

These are not some random musings, as a VR enthusiast I have taken the time to research this. Please name one VR game that uses DLSS to increase it's frame rate. Just one. I'll wait. 

 

Here's a pretty severe deep dive into frametimes in Into The Radius VR: https://babeltechreviews.com/dlss-vr-into-the-radius-performance-benchmarked-with-the-reverb-g2-valve-index/

Finding charts this clear and specific however seems rare, as only a handful of DLSS titles are VR supportive, and DLSS VR supportive is even smaller.

Just saw a video of No Mans Sky,  going back and forth between settings, and seeing framerate increasing upwards of 50% in quality mode even.

 

But to say there are none is... ridiculous. What's the purpose of DLSS if not for lower frame times???

 

We aren't here to do the research for you, but it is out there if you open your eyes.

[MadKreator]

6 hours ago, XCNuse said:

Here's a link to the announcement two years ago:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/may-2021-rtx-dlss-game-update/

 

But I'm with TD here. Any discussion is pure speculation.

All we have to go off of is this:

What I notice most, and am most excited for with DLSS is the better anti aliasing( over what is currently in game). Zooming in on the HUD glass edge really shows a difference, assuming thats is in fact a byproduct or feature of dlss itself. It doesn’t seem to degrade the gauge quality either as it does in the civil sim. In that I prefer TAA over dlss, seems to actually run smoother and look better on my rig ( on a 5120x1440 screen) 

[captflyby]

Skyrim VR is one of the most modded, open-world ports ever made for virtual reality and now you can add Nvidia DLSS support ...

It is my sincere hope that the ED Team will make DCS DLSS work seamlessly with VR.

So far, my experience with VR in DCS has been extremely positive.

[Hive]

NineLine confirmed on discord that DLSS works with VR and alleviates GPU load.

[jparker36]

On 1/13/2023 at 8:20 AM, Lurker said:

These are not some random musings, as a VR enthusiast I have taken the time to research this. Please name one VR game that uses DLSS to increase it's frame rate. Just one. I'll wait. 

 

No mans sky, MSFS, ACC, Skyrim VR. There's 4. DCS will make 5.... and I've not even researched it, just named the games I have that use it.