Module review section

[Zius]

For some reason, there is no module review section on these forums.

Anybody know why that is?

It seems to me, that, with the ever increasing amount of modules, new users must have difficulty chosing. For sure you can look at reviews on YouTube but there are only a rather limited amount of people making those.

[Dustband]

Will you expect any other opinion than "OmG BuY iT YaSsSsSs" and if so, what is your foundation?

[Beirut]

42 minutes ago, Dustband said:

Will you expect any other opinion than "OmG BuY iT YaSsSsSs" and if so, what is your foundation?

 

On the contrary, many of us are petty and hate anything other people enjoy. 

 

I'd sure we can offer a great deal of meandering, unfounded, and contrary opinions. 

[Dragon1-1]

There's plenty of reviews on Steam. Quality varies, but they're there.

[Zius]

3 hours ago, Dustband said:

Will you expect any other opinion than "OmG BuY iT YaSsSsSs" and if so, what is your foundation?

I don't really understand where this is coming from.

I think many of the discussions here are of quite a high quality, I don't see why reviews would be different. Of course it will contain opinion, but I fail to see why the opinion of someone here on the forum would be less valuable than the opinion of a guy who happens to make YouTube video's.

 

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

There's plenty of reviews on Steam. Quality varies, but they're there.

If you are looking for them, they are here on the various module-specific forums as well.

But I though it might be a nice idea to combine them somewhere in a place where they can easily be found.

Also, the module-specific forums can be a bit negative, with a lot of debate about the accuracy of flight models and/or certain systems. While these discussions are valuable, they may be less valuable to new DCS users.

Finally, many users don't use Steam. Including myself.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Zius

[Dragon1-1]

You can still look at reviews on Steam. You can't write them, sure, but there are plenty of people who do. I agree, perhaps a dedicated section would help.

[sirrah]

23 hours ago, Zius said:

For some reason, there is no module review section on these forums.

Anybody know why that is?

It seems to me, that, with the ever increasing amount of modules, new users must have difficulty chosing. For sure you can look at reviews on YouTube but there are only a rather limited amount of people making those.

I wouldn't really need it for myself (active long enough in DCS and its predecessors, that by now I pretty much always know up front if a module is something for me or not), but I can imagine that a centralized place on the forum specifically for user reviews, would help newcomers. Or maybe a subforum under each module dedicated for user reviews.

I think though, that there should be a few rules to keep those reviews organized. I'm thinking of:

• No discussions! (A user review is a personal view on something which shouldn't be contested)
• Mandatory for the user review to clearly contain date, especially when edited (modules evolve and a bad user review could change once the module evolves).
• Clear categories, such as: Module difficulty/learning curve, graphics/3D model, performance

 

Anyway, a properly setup review section isn't a bad idea imho 

 

[Art-J]

I think the reviews section would suffer from the same inherent problem as in the case of videos - the evolving nature of DCS.

Some early access modules which can be reviewed as "average" at best after their initial release can evolve two or three years later into "good" category and vice versa - modules which used to be great once may fall into disrepair with new bugs piling up an no fixes to be seen (for example ex-Belsimtek modules). User reviews would have to be regularly updated to follow such changes, but nobody can force private users to "maintain" their old reviews, while newcomers to DCS can end up being confused about the most current status of the module they're interested in.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Art-J

[Exorcet]

8 hours ago, sirrah said:

No discussions! (A user review is a personal view on something which shouldn't be contested)

How do you challenge misinformation? Errors might not be intentional, but without discussion they may go unchallenged. Reviews may also benefit from multiple points of view. We don't have a dedicated review section, put there are topics asking about modules and discussion seems to work well enough in them.

8 hours ago, sirrah said:

Mandatory for the user review to clearly contain date, especially when edited (modules evolve and a bad user review could change once the module evolves).

The forum more or less does this automatically and the same could be said for reviews in topics. As they age they get pushed further back in the forum. New activity can revive and update them, or new topics can be created.

8 hours ago, sirrah said:

Clear categories, such as: Module difficulty/learning curve, graphics/3D model, performance

With that it sounds like the desire is for professional review, or at least pretty formal ones. At that point it might just be better to have dedicated reviewers so that reviews don't have to be constantly monitored to make sure they meet standards.

 

Just a few ideas to consider.

[sirrah]

2 hours ago, Exorcet said:

How do you challenge misinformation? Errors might not be intentional, but without discussion they may go unchallenged. Reviews may also benefit from multiple points of view. We don't have a dedicated review section, put there are topics asking about modules and discussion seems to work well enough in them.

The forum more or less does this automatically and the same could be said for reviews in topics. As they age they get pushed further back in the forum. New activity can revive and update them, or new topics can be created.

With that it sounds like the desire is for professional review, or at least pretty formal ones. At that point it might just be better to have dedicated reviewers so that reviews don't have to be constantly monitored to make sure they meet standards.

 

Just a few ideas to consider.

All fair points indeed 

You made me doubt the subject @Exorcet

On one hand I agree with the OP though, that currently it's a bit of a hassle trying to find proper (written) reviews on this forum.

On the other hand, YT is full of (some very good) DCS module reviews, and also, a bit of searching is not too much to ask from newcomers.

[Kang]

The idea sounds good, but I'm also afraid that it would be very difficult to make it meaningful. Not only do things change up all the time, but also opinions on a lot of things vary wildly.

Several people have tried to set up things like 'buying guides' for modules over the years, but not only do they outdate rather quickly as development of modules goes on, but at the end of the day they always contain a lot of personal notion. Just like with review videos you can find, the real question is whose opinion in the community you value and trust.

Perhaps it would be good to just have a little section dedicated to module recommendations, where people can set up threads saying: «This is what I am looking for in my next module. [...] What are your suggestions?»

[Beirut]

17 hours ago, sirrah said:

All fair points indeed 

You made me doubt the subject @Exorcet

On one hand I agree with the OP though, that currently it's a bit of a hassle trying to find proper (written) reviews on this forum.

On the other hand, YT is full of (some very good) DCS module reviews, and also, a bit of searching is not too much to ask from newcomers.

 

The Grim Reapers have a very good selection of module reviews. I think the format is well put together. I haven't seen any new ones recently - Mirage F1 and MB-229 for example -  seems there is some drama behind the scenes, but many of the reviews are well done.

 

Even a good review of the Christen Eagle.

 

[BuzzU]

It's a problem because of early access. I'd prefer to wait until the plane is finished but not if it's going to be in EA. Just tell us what planes are being worked on and when they're done. release them. Flying around in half finished planes is not the way to go.

[Zius]

A few alternatives have been mentioned:

- Steam. In my opinion (but it's up to ED in the end) THIS is the DCS forum. Steam is a place were games of all kinds are sold

- YouTube. Again, in my opinion, this is a rather "elitist" platform where you get reviews from people who want to dedicate a lot of time on this review. As such, you also get reviews from people who put really serious amounts of time in their modules. But I think DCS also has a fair amount of casual gamers (like myself) who pick up a module to get some basic proficiency in but not much more. For me, DCS is about the joys of flying from the comfort of your home and possibly shoot at some stuff while you are at it. I therefore generally do not favour the systems heavy modules because for me, they take too long to learn, and are too easy to un-learn. I mean, I can spend a weekend going through the F-16 training missions or diving into the Viggen's flight computer, and I will enjoy myself in the process, but the next weekend I will have forgotten much about it.

- Reading through module sub-sections. Sure, this is very useful. However what I generally notice, especially when it comes to new modules, are the many posts critizising some aspects of the flight model or other details. Such discussions, while being useful for the dev team and up to a point also interesting for potential module buyers, I think they can also discourage people looking to buy the module, or even turn them off DCS completely. If you read the forums, sometimes you come to the conclusion that all flight models are completely wrong and the AI is more stupid then it was back on the Commodore 64. Which is of course not the case. Despite it's many opportunities for improvement, it is, in my opinion, by far the best simulation in the history of flight simulation, and it's constantly improving on itself.

 

On 1/21/2023 at 7:43 PM, sirrah said:

I wouldn't really need it for myself (active long enough in DCS and its predecessors, that by now I pretty much always know up front if a module is something for me or not), but I can imagine that a centralized place on the forum specifically for user reviews, would help newcomers. Or maybe a subforum under each module dedicated for user reviews.

I think though, that there should be a few rules to keep those reviews organized. I'm thinking of:

• No discussions! (A user review is a personal view on something which shouldn't be contested)
• Mandatory for the user review to clearly contain date, especially when edited (modules evolve and a bad user review could change once the module evolves).
• Clear categories, such as: Module difficulty/learning curve, graphics/3D model, performance

I agree with this. I would add that the state of module (Early Access or not) and DCS version should be mentioned. And a few words about the limitations of the Early Access state of the module. Which features etc. are missing in the EA state depends a lot. Some modules are 99.99% feature complete but remain in EA state for a long time. E.g. the M2K was a good example, although it is now in Release state, but e.g. Viggen is still in EA, for whatever reason.

Challenging reviews (if people feel it's necessary) can be done sending a private message, or, in the worst case, involving a moderator. Or by opening a new topic if it concerns specific topics which could be discussed.