Patch notes discussion thread 25th January 2023

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

That's just how a VR headset works. Doesn't matter what resolution it says it has or how many fancy technologies it uses. VR will never look as good as flat.(not with current headsets) refresh rate and Smoothness is of course related to to the fact that VR uses more resources than flat.

Seriously? So you are telling me that since the DCS update, there have been no loss right?

Wrong. I started testing VR settings before the update and now can't even get close to those settings in DCS, denying that there is an issue is not going to make things moving forward, my system have been optimized, I got the results I wanted, not I can't have them back.

Quote

But the actual differences in graphics is AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX undervolt test.just a limitation of the lenses used in VR headsets, and nothing to do with DCS itself  

This one takes the Guiness record year 2023, so according to you, not being able to reproduce the settings I  used before is just a fruit of my imagination and bad lenses, just that you know I played DCS with every single settings maxed out to test my system potential, I did it time and time again, recorded videos and uploaded them.

I know exactly what is going on and your explanation doesn't make any sense, not saying DCS is responsible but the key date is the update, the issue is the number of apps we need to have running to get results we could have before with twice less of them, now I just CAT fly low level with those settings because I can't see where I'm going, as simple as that.

 

>>>

1 hour ago, draconus said:

We already have the option for simple shorcuts: dcs.exe --force_enable_VR or dcs.exe --force_disable_VR

we already have the single tick box to Enable VR headset

we already have community app https://forum.dcs.world/topic/134493-the-dcs-updater-gui-utility/ which let's you run it however you want even with different settings

 

You call that the equivalent of clicking on a launch icon? I call that unfinished, yet another app, like you guys seems to love to multiply them, sorry, and we shouldn't have to fiddle with lines in folders.

I can't help it if you can't see the difference but I certainly can, after multiple blue screens, O.S recoveries, reinstall, crashes and yet still not able to come anywhere close to the settings I played with before.

Not taking it, mate.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Thinder

[draconus]

6 minutes ago, Thinder said:

You call that the equivalent of clicking on a launch icon?

I call it options. If you don't like it - do it normally, without any additional app or shorcut change. Just run the game with double click and it works. Want different mode - choose it in the settings and restart. For all other problems:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/482-game-crash/

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/442-vr-bugs/

And where exactly have you read that buying Pico 4 is the best choice and absolutely hassle-free solution for DCS?

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/VR/

[Thinder]

34 minutes ago, draconus said:

I call it options. If you don't like it - do it normally, without any additional app or shorcut change. Just run the game with double click and it works. Want different mode - choose it in the settings and restart. For all other problems:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/482-game-crash/

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/442-vr-bugs/

And where exactly have you read that buying Pico 4 is the best choice and absolutely hassle-free solution for DCS?

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/VR/

I don't need to read it anywhere, I figured the settings for myself without those "options" and tweaking, from my PoV it's a step backward, not progress.

I had high DCS settings, good VR visuals, NO crashes, NO flickering, NO fogging and used VR to optimize my system, as I mentioned, with DCS settings all maxed out to explore my PC potential. Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6 first run.

Here you go. That's how I ran DCS before and your options just doesn't allow me to reproduce those settings and get DCS to work, if I try, the game won't even start.

So I am reporting the issue from my first post in this topic,  don't blame my headset, its lenses or anything else, it worked before and it should still work today, and if there weren't issues with those new things people wouldn't report them and being in need of lengthy explanation.

Just in passing, I got the best result since I started testing my rig after deleting half of the line "--force_enable_VR"...

Edited February 2, 2023 by Thinder

[Thinder]

So, further tests to report:

With the line: --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR,  Open XR runtime and toolkit, I experience the same flickering in a cold start (Mirage F1 EE) than without the line, Open XR runtime and toolkit. just moving my head causes flicker.

It is impossible to get a stable game without lowering DCS settings to <> a third to an half of what I was capable of running it with some time ago.

I'm still trying to figure out which one of those apps is creating this bottleneck but it is there and when you think that I spent 2 grands in this system to play DCS  in VR at 4K, you have an idea of how I appreciate this little exercise, one thing for sure, Pico won't start without Steam VR and the game without  Virtual Desktop, I have contacted Pico to let them know this was potentially a cause for errors and issues.

My rig, including the Pico worked well before and haven't changed, the image in both VR and replays allowed me to optimize my system settings AND DCS, now it's not only touch and go it is also a lot lower in terms of performances and quality and it's not coming from my side...

Previously when I was trying to figure a way to get my VR to work I had a "it's not us ask the other guys" kind of reply from Steam, and until I decided to switch to Steam VR Beta the problem wasn't solved, I just hope that we don't embark in the same routine and that this situation improve, we need to accept that this solution is not perfect.

From my PoV, the whole procedure is way too complex, adding to risks of error and reducing the potential of player's rigs....

Time to edit it, this is the third rig setting VR replay and the last with good settings (28.01). Check out the image quality...

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Thinder

[Baldrick33]

@Thinder

I understand the frustration and passion. VR has been so tantalisingly close to being damned near perfect since I got my Reverb G1 three and a half years ago. The pace of headset development, PC hardware to run them at higher resolutions and for applications to be optimised to run VR just seems to take an age. Yet that isn't untypical for what is a pioneering technology.

That is still how I see VR, we are pioneers and with that comes a layer of complexity and continual change to make it better.

That can be frustrating. A few times I have tried going back to monitors, even got Opentrack working with my VR headset perched on top my head to consider purchasingto a trackir type solution but each time I realise VR has hooked me. I go back to VR and the wow moment is there again!

I am grateful for ED providing the level of support they have, though I yearn for engine improvements to improve performance which can't come fast enough. I see ED and the community needing to work together and this last week has been a testament to that. We can't expect developers to support every combination of hardware and software that make up the current VR options, especially with so many third party options needed to get standalone headsets working with PC apps.

Yes, ED did muck up with the lack of communication that OpenXR was coming, worst still making it default albeit for a day. That message has been driven home enough.

Going forward I still expect to be in a state of flux. OpenXR will continue to develop, the tools for VR will get ever more sophisticated, the number of headsets will increase, the tuning that comes with initial implementations of multithreading and vulkan and so on. I can't see a simple plug and play for any headset on the market for the forseeable future. It is going to take some work by the user to get the best out of (or even make it work) for some time.

[Thinder]

23 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

@Thinder

I understand the frustration and passion. VR has been so tantalisingly close to being damned near perfect since I got my Reverb G1 three and a half years ago. The pace of headset development, PC hardware to run them at higher resolutions and for applications to be optimised to run VR just seems to take an age. Yet that isn't untypical for what is a pioneering technology.

That is still how I see VR, we are pioneers and with that comes a layer of complexity and continual change to make it better.

That can be frustrating. A few times I have tried going back to monitors, even got Opentrack working with my VR headset perched on top my head to consider purchasingto a trackir type solution but each time I realise VR has hooked me. I go back to VR and the wow moment is there again!

I am grateful for ED providing the level of support they have, though I yearn for engine improvements to improve performance which can't come fast enough. I see ED and the community needing to work together and this last week has been a testament to that. We can't expect developers to support every combination of hardware and software that make up the current VR options, especially with so many third party options needed to get standalone headsets working with PC apps.

Yes, ED did muck up with the lack of communication that OpenXR was coming, worst still making it default albeit for a day. That message has been driven home enough.

Going forward I still expect to be in a state of flux. OpenXR will continue to develop, the tools for VR will get ever more sophisticated, the number of headsets will increase, the tuning that comes with initial implementations of multithreading and vulkan and so on. I can't see a simple plug and play for any headset on the market for the forseeable future. It is going to take some work by the user to get the best out of (or even make it work) for some time.

For the time being, I'm unable to get rid of this System-to-VR headset bottleneck, and this update wasn't supposed to provide us with this result but an improvement.

I have figured out, (thanks to replays), that the issue comes from what data is sent to the headset, certainly not the system performances, it's all down to apps making a mess of it all, the system performs flawlessly especially after I solved the PCI-E1 issue, it is now faster and works smoother, it was the case before and is still the case today now that it is fine tuned.

= System: PASS.

In the last video I posted, the clarity of the Pico was very good, for those who forgot or doesn't know, it has a resolution of 2.160 X 2.160 per eyes and a refresh rate of 90Hz, you might have noticed that I conduct my tests at three levels and I need to see where I'm going, I was then able to see the electric lines and the level of details was very good.

This was even before I thought of tuning DCS settings to make it even more stable, image quality still could have improved, and I was paying a particular attention on the details on the side of the PoV, no frame loss, flickering or anything else, just a clear image.

= Pico: PASS.

I'm not expecting much from the new game engine, it is not my primary concern, it can become one if it causes performances to go down like is the case for VR apps.

My RAM/CPU bounding are optimized and I have ordered a RAM upgrade (same Cl14 B.die but 64GB instead of 32GB) and this should help dealing with whatever Developers throw at us in terms of multithreading, the Ryzen 7 5800X3D is 3.8% faster in multithreading than the 7 5800X.

So it's not gonna be much of an issue unless we have a major Cluster-U-know-what coming with it, which is, from my PoV what happened with the VR update.

All the goodies in the pipeline are no consolation to me after loosing what I was able to get from my rig, this is what have to be sorted and integration of support for more headset is certainly needed but more to the point, performances have to be there.

I don't know if Open XR support was necessary, perhaps for other users, but I would advise developers to give us the option to turn it OFF completely for the next update, it's not my job to figure out how to do it and right now, I just can't use my gear in VR.

 

 

[Baldrick33]

12 minutes ago, Thinder said:

I don't know if Open XR support was necessary, perhaps for other users, but I would advise developers to give us the option to turn it OFF completely for the next update, it's not my job to figure out how to do it and right now, I just can't use my gear in VR.

 

VR users on these forums have been crying out for native OpenXR support. ED were responding to customer demand in my view.

I don't know much (or anything really) about the Pico but the hot fix reverted to using either the opencomposite or SteamVR method as before for WMR devices (without manually adding the switch)

Personally I think the Pico is a brave choice for running DCS. It is pretty much brand new and as a standalone headset adds software layers to get connected and opens additional world of potential WIFI networking issues. We have a family Quest2 which for curiosity I got working with DCS and Medal of Honor (PC version) . I ended up using an access point I used in another part of the house and reconfiguring it to exclusively run with the Quest to get Medal of Honor working decently. Once I had done that I tried DCS but compared with my Reverb G1 it seemed a poor second.

I get that standalone headsets are great at what they do and for standing and moving games they are the best choice but for PC connected seated games like flight and race sims they are a compromise and fiddling about with virtual desktops, wifi settings, side loading unsupported third party apps etc are all part of the process of getting them to work well.

It doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to have a great experience with it and DCS but I think expecting it to be plug and play and work great is a big ask.

[St4rgun]

1 hour ago, Thinder said:

I don't know if Open XR support was necessary, perhaps for other users, but I would advise developers to give us the option to turn it OFF completely for the next update, it's not my job to figure out how to do it and right now, I just can't use my gear in VR.

As @Baldrick33 said using Pico 4 seems to be much more complicated right now as a more mature and widespread used headset like the HP Reverb G2 where the OpenXR support is really native in Windows. With all my respect may I ask: why don't you roll back to previous open beta which worked well as long as ED irons out these problems? If you use DCS Updater you can even have two different builds (one for the known good version and the other for the newest OB).

As ED planned the next patch in March and we're expecting some serious changes then I think the rollback would be the logical solution for you right now, then checking out the new version sometime in March.

[Thinder]

3 hours ago, St4rgun said:

As @Baldrick33 said using Pico 4 seems to be much more complicated right now as a more mature and widespread used headset like the HP Reverb G2 where the OpenXR support is really native in Windows. With all my respect may I ask: why don't you roll back to previous open beta which worked well as long as ED irons out these problems? If you use DCS Updater you can even have two different builds (one for the known good version and the other for the newest OB).

As ED planned the next patch in March and we're expecting some serious changes then I think the rollback would be the logical solution for you right now, then checking out the new version sometime in March.

Good suggestion, I might well try this one... I was pretty simple to use before the update.

Quote

Baldrick33

 

It doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to have a great experience with it and DCS but I think expecting it to be plug and play and work great is a big ask.

 

 

Well, unless you suggest I'm lying about the videos I posted, all those assumptions about Pico4 not working in DCS are wrong, and I had a G2 before, it packed up, with the money of the refund I bought my first set of Cl14 RAM, a rather good trade if you ask me, and btw, HP killed the G2, it's over.

Again, it's not the headset, it's the apps, deny it at your perils because if no one is looking at the issues and stays in this state of denial, we're all gonna be in trouble sooner than later.

And I'm not blaming players for asking for support, what I'm saying is once again it comes incomplete, we have support for NVidia but no news of what can be done for AMD, so we'll wait, same for the Headset support, I wouldn't mind that, except that this update messes up my settings big time.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Thinder

[Baldrick33]

52 minutes ago, Thinder said:

Well, unless you suggest I'm lying about the videos I posted, all those assumptions about Pico4 not working in DCS are wrong, and I had a G2 before, it packed up, with the money of the refund I bought my first set of Cl14 RAM, a rather good trade if you ask me, and btw, HP killed the G2, it's over.

Again, it's not the headset, it's the apps, deny it at your perils because if no one is looking at the issues and stays in this state of denial, we're all gonna be in trouble sooner than later.

And I'm not blaming players for asking for support, what I'm saying is once again it comes incomplete, we have support for NVidia but no news of what can be done for AMD, so we'll wait, same for the Headset support, I wouldn't mind that, except that this update messes up my settings big time.

 

I am not sure how you inferred that from my post. I have no knowledge of all those assumptions. As you say the issue isn't the headset per se, it is the apps. The more steps you have to take to get the output from DCS to the headset (and include WIFI routers and PC networking in all that) the greater the potential for one of those steps causing issues and needing troubleshooting or tuning.

Which is my point and comes with the territory of connecting a standalone device wirelessly to a PC. Stuff will change and unfortunately will sometimes make things worse.

The roll back is a good shout. OpenBeta will regularly change - we literally demand it daily! Using Skatezilla's app is the easiest way and you simply pick which version you were most happy with.

 

 

 

[5ephir0th]

6 hours ago, Thinder said:

I don't know if Open XR support was necessary, perhaps for other users, but I would advise developers to give us the option to turn it OFF completely for the next update, it's not my job to figure out how to do it and right now, I just can't use my gear in VR.

Tell me you know that, since last hotfix, OpenXR doesnt work unless you force it, right?

OpenXR support was neccesary, Oculus API support is deprecated, it will happen to OpenVR too, so better to be future proof now, if Pico has problems with OpenXR on PCVR side then its her duty to fix it, not of the game developer.

Pico PCVR link poor performance and OpenXR issues was why i returned mine

Edited February 2, 2023 by 5ephir0th

[Thinder]

20 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I am not sure how you inferred that from my post. I have no knowledge of all those assumptions. As you say the issue isn't the headset per se, it is the apps. The more steps you have to take to get the output from DCS to the headset (and include WIFI routers and PC networking in all that) the greater the potential for one of those steps causing issues and needing troubleshooting or tuning.

Which is my point and comes with the territory of connecting a standalone device wirelessly to a PC. Stuff will change and unfortunately will sometimes make things worse.

The roll back is a good shout. OpenBeta will regularly change - we literally demand it daily! Using Skatezilla's app is the easiest way and you simply pick which version you were most happy with.

 

 

 

I'm not using my Pico Wirelessy for a starter, but USB 3.2 which is way faster and immune from issues known for Wi-Fi, that's one of the assumption made by people who doesn't know the Pico4, between this and the quality of its optics it's not helping to deflect the problem this last update have caused.

I'm looking into it, but again, little done for AMD users and Pico users are just left stranded, I'll lose the F1 EE in the process, didn't I pay for this module? This is getting on my nerves already.

I've been supporting DCS through the purchase of modules even when I was skinned, built a 2 grand + PC for it and I don't think all of this knee jerking about a DCS update is helping developers or users, they have an issue why does anyone just keep pointing fingers everywhere else but at it?...

I wrote a ticket to support to ask them what's the best way to roll back to the previous version meanwhile I'm trying diverse solutions/settings to recover what this update have lost me, and again it's NOT my gear not my headset, they worked great before and according to the replays, they still do.

Lenses, standalone, wireless and what more, you guys get it all wrong.

 

 

12 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

Tell me you know that, since last hotfix, OpenXR doesnt work unless you force it, right?

OpenXR support was neccesary, Oculus API support is deprecated, it will happen to OpenVR too, so better to be future proof now, if Pico has problems with OpenXR on PCVR side then its her duty to fix it, not of the game developer.

Pico PCVR link poor performance and OpenXR issues was why i returned mine

 

Right. So DCS relase an update that messes up a headset setting and it's the headset manufacturer which has to fix it?

I tell you what, you guys need to get a tranquilizer shot and booster because you're really out of your depth right now, I'm down with your B.S.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Thinder

[5ephir0th]

13 minutes ago, Thinder said:

Right. So DCS relase an update that messes up a headset setting and it's the headset manufacturer which has to fix it?

I tell you what, you guys need to get a tranquilizer shot and booster because you're really out of your depth right now, I'm down with your B.S.

You are telling just what you want.

ED released support for an VR API that MOST of the game developers are using for his new games (and many of the old ones are migrating it), 48 hours after they released a hotfix that makes DCS not using OpenXR by default unless you force it without having to do anything, so those guy having bugs get solved.

Pico doesnt support OpenXR natively over streaming, thats an ED problem? No, a Pico one, ED gives you the option to not using it and keep whatever other API you were using (OpenVR over SteamVR i think)

I think the only ones who needs a tranquilizer shot its you, and maybe more than one

[Baldrick33]

2 hours ago, Thinder said:

I'm not using my Pico Wirelessy for a starter, but USB 3.2 which is way faster and immune from issues known for Wi-Fi, that's one of the assumption made by people who doesn't know the Pico4, between this and the quality of its optics it's not helping to deflect the problem this last update have caused.

My apologies, I thought it was connecting wirelessly as you mentioned using Virtual Desktop. It is over two years since I experimented with the Quest2, so I guess Virtual Desktop is required to stream the video via USB?

I know things have moved on and many use a Quest2 with DCS now, I just recall it was quite a faff at the time - I also tried the official Oculus cable and returned it as I had more success over WIFI and also came to the conclusion I wouldn't use it for PC games.

Good luck with the Pico. My point was that it adds layers to the process of getting DCS to connect to the device. That doesn't mean it is a bad experience just that it may require more fiddling and more stuff to keep on top of than other headsets, rather than plug and play.

[SPAS79]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:13 PM, BIGNEWY said:

We are very close with multithreading and testing continues, DLSS will be in a future build also, but it will all depend on test results.  

Oh you are going to regret this...
JK stoked. 

On 2/1/2023 at 3:40 PM, Qiou87 said:

I think you need to manage your expectations. DLSS can be tried in VR in the popular civilian sim (it's on their subscription if you just want to try it for a low price and see for yourself) and it basically is a mess at least in my experience but I also saw it reflected in many comments : limited performance improvements (probably due to CPU bottleneck -> this is why we will first have some multithreading in DCS), huge degradation of readability for the dials and screens. I also encountered more artifacts that I do when using DLSS on pancake, which could be related with the fact that the prediction algorithm has a hard time to adapt to multiple axis and constant movement due to head tracking, but also with the fact that some of the scene (cockpit) is static while the world moves, sometimes at high speed, through the cockpit windows.

I am eager to try out DLSS in DCS and I sincerely hope their implementation is better. But I will not expect a big improvement for VR based on my experience.

 

This. I ended up disabling DLSS in the civ sim because I could not read my beloved Bell206 steam gauges. 

On 2/1/2023 at 5:10 PM, Jafergon said:

That's exactly what I'm doing with great results in the other sim, running it at a resolution much higher than the native res of my G2 with OpenXR Toolkit. I can't wait to have DLSS in DCS to do the same

I'm doing this in DCS (minus the DLSS) and getting seemingly good results, so good the civ thing is on the back burner since I started toying with the Apache about 20 days ago. 

[SPAS79]

9 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

VR users on these forums have been crying out for native OpenXR support. ED were responding to customer demand in my view.

I don't know much (or anything really) about the Pico but the hot fix reverted to using either the opencomposite or SteamVR method as before for WMR devices (without manually adding the switch)

Personally I think the Pico is a brave choice for running DCS. It is pretty much brand new and as a standalone headset adds software layers to get connected and opens additional world of potential WIFI networking issues. We have a family Quest2 which for curiosity I got working with DCS and Medal of Honor (PC version) . I ended up using an access point I used in another part of the house and reconfiguring it to exclusively run with the Quest to get Medal of Honor working decently. Once I had done that I tried DCS but compared with my Reverb G1 it seemed a poor second.

I get that standalone headsets are great at what they do and for standing and moving games they are the best choice but for PC connected seated games like flight and race sims they are a compromise and fiddling about with virtual desktops, wifi settings, side loading unsupported third party apps etc are all part of the process of getting them to work well.

It doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to have a great experience with it and DCS but I think expecting it to be plug and play and work great is a big ask.

Honestly I'm running a Q2 via Airlink, with then OpenXR through OpenComposite, now native OpenXR and quality is better than with the USB cable. Mind you I *BOUGHT* a Wifi6 router just for that and it sits 3 feet away from the headset. 

[Convexrook]

--force_enable_VR or dcs.exe --force_disable_VR

this is still broken for me with reprojection forced

[Thinder]

it's good that people voice their concern over this update because from my PoV it was rushed out and does affect some of us negatively, everyone can see what my system could do in VR and I guaranty you that despite what those who don't know the Pico4 headset can say about it, the image quality was really good.

I'm not saying some of the update wasn't needed for some other players far from it but blaming the issue on completely wrongly assumed defects of my headset is not helping anyone, certainly not the developers who needs to know exactly what is going on in order to correct it.

So I'll reiterate, I was able to run DCS in VR with nearly all DCS settings maxed-out, I have NO flickering, NO fogging, NO crashes and the quality of the image was improving, the only DCS setting I dialed down once a bit was Pixel density and it was getting better and better.

It is not down to Pico to correct something that was done by DCS developers and their headset is not at fault, true, the app support is not great but it worked perfectly and I see no reason to bow down to the opinions of those who apparently chose to ignore the issue and point fingers anywhere else but the roots.

There are 4 videos dedicated to setting up my rig, with 3 different aircrafts (Mirage F1, Mirage 2000 and F-15), on 3 different maps, I had no trouble running those missions at all, and today, when I experience all the defects that prevent me to play it or even use my mouse, the replays shows nothing of the sort, so clearly it is not coming from my rig.

Good thing I optimized my system first, now there is no excuse for blaming it or my headset.

 

[Gunfreak]

4 hours ago, Convexrook said:

--force_enable_VR or dcs.exe --force_disable_VR

this is still broken for me with reprojection forced

Yes, you need to get the latest version of the open xr toolkit to get motion projection working again.  I haven't tried it myself.  As I'm tired of all these programs upon programs  to run vr.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Thinder said:

...when I experience all the defects that prevent me to play it or even use my mouse, the replays shows nothing of the sort, so clearly it is not coming from my rig

Still ranting and not one bug report or log, huh? Almost like you don't really want it getting better or fixed. It's getting boring so here are your options again: go back to the version you were satisfied with, drop the beta (you're not ready to handle it), drop the settings (yes, different software version sometimes means different performance, adapt).

[5ephir0th]

7 hours ago, Thinder said:

I'm not saying some of the update wasn't needed for some other players far from it but blaming the issue on completely wrongly assumed defects of my headset is not helping anyone, certainly not the developers who needs to know exactly what is going on in order to correct it.

...

It is not down to Pico to correct something that was done by DCS developers and their headset is not at fault, true, the app support is not great but it worked perfectly and I see no reason to bow down to the opinions of those who apparently chose to ignore the issue and point fingers anywhere else but the roots.

And you keep blaming ED...

Update was not rushed, it was released over Open Beta and thats what Open Beta means, testing new features and let me tell you that, for being the first iteration, it came really well even with some bugs

I will tell you again, PICO headsets don´t support OpenXR natively over PCVR streaming by now (it is supported on standalone), ED gave you OPTIONAL support for OpenXR on DCS, if even knowing that you still keep using OpenXR and suffer some bugs from your headset not having native support for the API its not a ED problem, that is like if you blame ED cause DCS crash when using OpenComposite with it.

Keep using Steam/OpenVR and DCS (you dont have to do nothing for it) will run as prior to OpenXR update.

No one is telling you that your headset is defective, its not even a software issue, just PC streaming not supporting OpenXR by now (maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe next year, maybe it never get support)

[Convexrook]

6 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Yes, you need to get the latest version of the open xr toolkit to get motion projection working again.  I haven't tried it myself.  As I'm tired of all these programs upon programs  to run vr.

Tried that same problem, I have to play with reprojection off for the new openXR version to work

[maxTRX]

On 2/2/2023 at 5:33 AM, Baldrick33 said:Yes, ED did muck up with the lack of communication that OpenXR was coming, worst still making it default albeit for a day. That message has been driven home enough.

 

 

I usually don't get melodramatic but the decision to roll it out without any considerations for all OB testers and giving them some idea what to look for was a bit arrogant.  Not everyone here is as well versed and on the cutting edge of VR development as Mbuccia and few others...

Even after the latest 'patch' or more precisely one day after, I started getting loooong load times at game start, only after my rig was rebooted. I've never seen this before. It took 6 min. to load DCS with no switches used on .exe.  It happened 3 times. So...  since there are no improvement in the only bird I fly, the Hornet, more problems compiled on top of that.  (not the performance though, my rig is hauling ass on SteamVR)...  time to bail out for some time, until ED figures out a better scheme.  Oh, it probably be a good time to re-image my rig to a pristine Windows install from 2 months ago.

[St4rgun]

 

 

15 hours ago, SPAS79 said:

I'm doing this in DCS (minus the DLSS) and getting seemingly good results, so good the civ thing is on the back burner since I started toying with the Apache about 20 days ago. 

In MSFS I'm using DLSS because there it's the best overall AA technique speed / quality vise. In DCS as the current MSAA implementation leaves a lot of shimmering objects that's why I'm more than curious to see DLSS in VR in action here also. It can solve the temporal aliasing flickering and the transparent / semi transparent textures' aliasing as well. Let's see.

By the way as long as we speak I tried some new settings with my rig with really breathtaking results is DCS, even the clouds quality is highly improved on standard settings (SP only):

• set the OpenXR in Windows to 300% custom render scale (!!!) with motion reprojection disabled
• set OpenXR Toolkit as the following:
  • Performance tab:
    • upscaling to 60% with FSR -> this equals roughly 3200x3200 pixels resolution for my G2
    • frame rate throttling to 45
  • Inputs tab:
    • Shaking reduction to -70% to have smooth and stable IHADSS
  • System tab:
    • double check that motion reprojection set to Default (not forced on)
• And my DCS settings pages:

With these settings my 3090 can almost always produce 45 fps with all the airplanes I have (20) even on the ground and locked 45 fps in air.

The clouds seem much nicer despite being set to "standard" only and the overall cripsness of the image if phenomenal. The sweespot became much bigger as well.

Personally I don't like having 55-60 fps while that causes more microstutter on the G2 than 45 fps. As long as I can't have steady 90 its better to have stable 45. And I really hate motion reprojection's arifacts, so that's always set to off for me in DCS.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by St4rgun

[Dragon1-1]

Well, I have a 1080ti, so I can't exactly run on 60% with those settings, but at 40% (basically Reverb's native resolution) and 25FPS it does seem somewhat nicer. Fortunately, I'm not sensitive to low framerates as long as they're consistent, however, I've noticed shimmering that appears much more severe than it used to be. I haven't been able to get it back to where it was on previous builds. I'm pretty sure I had more FPS as well. Oh, well, we'll see what the next patch does. 

The 30 series cards are out of my price range right now, but I've been considering upgrading to a 2080ti once DLSS drops, if it's really that great (I also saw a used Titan RTX at a surprisingly non-insane price, but I couldn't go for it right now and it'd inevitably require a new PSU, anyway). I'd really like to see how my current rig measures up once Vulkan drops, though. Given how old the 1080ti is at this point, it's holding up really well.