7900x3D/4090 Water Cooled vs. 5900x/3090 Water Cooled HP Reverb G2 VR

[BitMaster]

By looking at the RAM module you might be able to read what specs it "has" but that may not necessarily be the speed they run on now. 

There are many tools that can tell you your current, active, RAM settings.  HWinfo, CPU-Z, Aida64, etc...   I use CPU-Z for quick checks.

 

Remember, whenever you update Bios and sometimes ( though seldom ) even after sudden power losses and hard resets the RAM reverts to SPD values instead of any XMP or manual settings.

Just check it from time to time to make sure it still runs with it's faster settings.

[trevoC]

Alright, getting closer. PC is built but its late and I'll leave the DIP (Does it POST) until tomorrow. I'm sure it will be a good days work to tune, install win, install VR software and DCS and setup all peripherals and import/export... not fun but I'll try to get it done enough to replicate the test soon.

[Greekbull]

I haven't really even begun to get everything tuned and optimized for DCS.  I am running Process Lasso to try and push everything to the 1st CCD as the Xbox Game Bar isn't doing a good job.  I haven't even touched my GPU OC yet and this thing screams in DCS.  I'm getting 70fps in very busy multiplayer servers with high settings and my Varjo Aero tuned to the highest PPD. Very happy!  

[Hoirtel]

27 minutes ago, Greekbull said:

I haven't really even begun to get everything tuned and optimized for DCS.  I am running Process Lasso to try and push everything to the 1st CCD as the Xbox Game Bar isn't doing a good job.  I haven't even touched my GPU OC yet and this thing screams in DCS.  I'm getting 70fps in very busy multiplayer servers with high settings and my Varjo Aero tuned to the highest PPD. Very happy!  

Good news about perf, bad about the scheduler. I heard you have to add a game to game bar and keep on balanced power mode as it won't park the non vcache cores. It is it not working well even with that?

[Greekbull]

28 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Good news about perf, bad about the scheduler. I heard you have to add a game to game bar and keep on balanced power mode as it won't park the non vcache cores. It is it not working well even with that?

I haven't tried Balanced Power mode. That may be the issue.  I'll do some more testing.  We have our normal flight nights on Sundays and Tuesdays and this build was such a crazy rush just to make those.  I need to spend some time getting things dialed in as I'm sure I can get even better results with the new rig...

[trevoC]

2 hours ago, Greekbull said:

I haven't really even begun to get everything tuned and optimized for DCS.  I am running Process Lasso to try and push everything to the 1st CCD as the Xbox Game Bar isn't doing a good job.  I haven't even touched my GPU OC yet and this thing screams in DCS.  I'm getting 70fps in very busy multiplayer servers with high settings and my Varjo Aero tuned to the highest PPD. Very happy!  

Thanks for the info, keep me posted and I'll also let you know how I solve that. I am also not a fan of the xbox game bar so I'd prefer another solution. I play so few games (basically DCS/MSFS/iRacing) that I don't mind setting each up manually to use proper cores. If you have a nice solution for this please share and I'll do the same.

Glad to hear performance. I'm super excited to get this running but I currently haven't even turned it on yet. Cleaning my home office and dusting and removing 2 years worth of peripherials and cords and plugs all running all over the place. Figured I might as well sort all the crap I've set down on and around my desk for the last 2 years.

Hopefully I can have this done before dinner and spend the night setting this puppy up. So glad to hear you've got great performance.

Doesn't help that everytime I bend down to un-run a wire, both dogs also want to check it out. Been nose to nose with two dogs for two hours.

[Th3ChosenOn3]

3 hours ago, Greekbull said:

I haven't really even begun to get everything tuned and optimized for DCS.  I am running Process Lasso to try and push everything to the 1st CCD as the Xbox Game Bar isn't doing a good job.  I haven't even touched my GPU OC yet and this thing screams in DCS.  I'm getting 70fps in very busy multiplayer servers with high settings and my Varjo Aero tuned to the highest PPD. Very happy!  

I managed to get the scheduler to put DCS on the correct 3D CCD without bios or process lasso, but it took a bit of work. Will say it does seem a bit of a hack job to make windows put stuff on the correct CCD with game bar, but it'll improve over time and I'm hoping it can be managed by Adrenaline in the future. The performance improvement on my side has been incredible.

[trevoC]

2 hours ago, Th3ChosenOn3 said:

I managed to get the scheduler to put DCS on the correct 3D CCD without bios or process lasso, but it took a bit of work. Will say it does seem a bit of a hack job to make windows put stuff on the correct CCD with game bar, but it'll improve over time and I'm hoping it can be managed by Adrenaline in the future. The performance improvement on my side has been incredible.

so you did end up using game bar in the end?

Just want to build off your work instead of frustratingly reinventing the wheel.

[Th3ChosenOn3]

2 hours ago, trevoC said:

so you did end up using game bar in the end?

Just want to build off your work instead of frustratingly reinventing the wheel.

I'm just using game bar, as I wanted windows to manage the CCD's while gaming. I had to run the chipset installer twice as it didn't install one of the modules in the first run, then put windows in balanced power plan in settings and control panel, as well as have core preference set to auto/driver in the bios, so it gets controlled by die chipset driver.

Then when you open DCS for the first time, it'll put it on the normal CCD and you have to open game bar and tell it that DCS is a game. After that, you have to close the game and open it again and see if it puts it on the 3D CCD (it may take a few seconds after starting to put it on the 3D CCD), and then you just check Task manager or resource monitor to make sure that it actually puts DCS on the correct CCD while in game. If it puts DCS on the 3D CCD, then you're good to go and you can forgot about game bar as it should do it every time.

If the "Remember DCS is a game" checkmark in game bar doesn't save, then something might not be installed or something is miss configured.

[trevoC]

Just started playing with the setup (bios) and am getting the dreaded DDR5 C5 qCode post message <sigh> after switching to the DRAM profile. I have heard that some people sat on that qcode for up to an hour before it worked as the system profiles the memory the first time there is a configuration change. I'll give it an hour and see and then I'll have to start diving into custom timings to see if I can get it to post. Without the profiles its defaulting to 4800. Doesn't look like I'll be creating any videos tonight, but I'd be happy to get windows installed and DCS downloading before I put my head down.

[trevoC]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:51 PM, EightyDuce said:

Should be an awesome build. One thing to take care of is RAM, being 6400mt/s, you may have to dial it down to 6000 or 6200 as very few memory controllers on Zen4 can reliably hit 6400. Also, the XMP timings will likely be VERY conservative/loose.

Take a look at this video, your kit is likely Hynix A die (maybe M.die) so you should have no problems copying secondary, tertiary and Tras timings for a significant boost.

 

 

Note: only do that after you establish that the system works as it should stock config (minus dialing down the RAM from 6400 to 6000).

 

As for 7950X3D vs 7900X3D, I would personally would have opted for the 7950X3D simply because thermal headroom will be insignificantly different due to the IHS (thicc) and you still retain the same scheduling "obstacles" but you lose out on 2 extra cores for both v-cached and non cached CCDs, base clock is irrelevant as you looking to boost as much as possible and 7950 will boost higher; 7950X3D is extremely efficient with 120w tdp. $100 difference in price is arguably negligible at that point as well.

All that being said, I don't think you'll be disappointed with the 7900X3D and should be great build when done.  Just make sure you update your BIOS and chipset drivers to the latest offering as you incur a significant performance penalty otherwise.

 

Those timings worked a charm.... much thanks.

[trevoC]

Wondering if anyone with a 7x3d/4090 setup is still CPU limited.

I would imagine that even with this nice upgrade the 4090 is a larger leap from the 3090 than the 7x3d is from the 5x series.

Just wondering if its even worth installing MSI afterburner. I didn't on my last setup because there was no need to overclock a GPU thats running in the 65% range.

[Th3ChosenOn3]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:16 PM, EightyDuce said:

Yeah, I have a 2x32Gb Gskill 6000 32-38-38-38-96 kit I'm using. I started with his settings and now working from there. Below are two screenshots, one stock XMP and the other with BZ much improved timings. Overnight stable on TestMem5 anat777 extreme.

 

Last one is my current settings.

 

 

Have you tested your ram on DCS multiplayer?

I've got the same kit and plugged in Buildzoid's timings, system seemed stable and working, but I would get IC failures on random files when I play online, and going back to the XMP profile fixed the IC issues.

[trevoC]

7 minutes ago, Th3ChosenOn3 said:

Have you tested your ram on DCS multiplayer?

I've got the same kit and plugged in Buildzoid's timings, system seemed stable and working, but I would get IC failures on random files when I play online, and going back to the XMP profile fixed the IC issues.

haven't even installed DCS yet.

I couldn't post using the profiles. From what I understand the memory controller is a bit of a silicon lottery (like cpus). couldn't do 6400 so I put in his timings and I post just fine.

Looks like I should probably do a memory stress test tomorrow.

mines the 6400 kit though so I figured it should be fine at 6000

[Hoirtel]

8 hours ago, trevoC said:

Just started playing with the setup (bios) and am getting the dreaded DDR5 C5 qCode post message <sigh> after switching to the DRAM profile. I have heard that some people sat on that qcode for up to an hour before it worked as the system profiles the memory the first time there is a configuration change. I'll give it an hour and see and then I'll have to start diving into custom timings to see if I can get it to post. Without the profiles its defaulting to 4800. Doesn't look like I'll be creating any videos tonight, but I'd be happy to get windows installed and DCS downloading before I put my head down.

Oof, is this common? I saw the Jayztwocents video that this had happened to him. He ended up swapping boards. I've never built AMD before and this makes me worried as I can't afford a mobo that has proper post codes. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Hoirtel

[SkateZilla]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:38 AM, trevoC said:

Alright, getting closer. PC is built but its late and I'll leave the DIP (Does it POST) until tomorrow. I'm sure it will be a good days work to tune, install win, install VR software and DCS and setup all peripherals and import/export... not fun but I'll try to get it done enough to replicate the test soon.

A lot of people are having issues with that mainboard and memory.

Jay also had this board fail on him.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Hoirtel]

17 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

A lot of people are having issues with that mainboard and memory.

Jay also had this board fail on him.

 

 

 

Is this all strix boards or just the crosshair?

[trevoC]

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

A lot of people are having issues with that mainboard and memory.

Jay also had this board fail on him.

 

 

 

I'll take a look at the video.

I could get it to post no problem, just not at 6400. Problem really is the RAM is rated that high but the memory controllers on the boards are a bit of a silicon lottery like the cpus.

I could get 6200 with good timings also but chose to run 6000 in the end to ensure I'm not walking some type of memory corruption tight rope at 6200.

Personally, I like the board so far. Most comments I saw online had to do with basic things like people with 4 sticks or 2 in the wrong slots etc... I'm pretty used to looking this up before a build as most of the Server/Workstation builds I do are extremely specific to their memory slot requirements. (if 16GB stick, use slot X first then Y, if 32GB stick use Z then W etc...) I've seen whole charts that map out all types of ram configurations and which slots to use in which cases (across 16 slots in one board just a few weeks ago... nightmare.) Wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't getting on in age and having trouble reading the 4 point type on the circuit board.

Boards can get a bad rep for reasons that really aren't valid a lot of the time. I've found the board to be amazing so far, just didn't hit the silicon lottery.

That being said... time will tell.

[trevoC]

I've seen this guy's videos before but have a hard time watching him as he seems to be an enthusiast at best.

In that link at 9:30(ish).... "right now that ram is in channel A1" < Its actually not, thats slot B2. I would expect the system to lock up with a single piece in B2 as it is specifically not recommended by ASUS.

RAM order 1 stick should be in A2, 2 in A2/B2

It seems like he did have this to start, but by pulling A2 he effed it up.

Tough to watch this.

"This is still channel A... immediate C5" < nope, that's channel B

Funny enough at 14:19 he shows a nice little close-up of the memory mapping that he is not using. (I actually found this nice as few boards I've worked on have ever had this)

This really was tough to watch.

In short, most of these boards can't handle the memory profiles of the faster ram like 6400 etc... 

They immediately post at 4800 (6400 ram does) and work without tinkering.

These faster sticks are meant for Overclockers not plug and players.

I have zero problems at 6000, even 6200 just want to play it safe.

He expected to load a memory profile and play and that just isn't the case with these. On top of that his entire diagnostics failed with a misunderstanding of which slots the memory needed to be installed in.

painful to watch.

[trevoC]

So tired of all the bloatware from manufacturers. Personally, I'm not fan of RGB. It looks nice but I control my lighting environments myself (room) and don't like the flashlight that MSI has installed on the liquid X 4090. Thing is effin bright.

In order to turn off all the rgb in my case I have to install 3 different piece of crap software solutions that want you to have an account and run their updater and talk to my mom on weekends.

IMO either disable RGB by default unless you install that crap, or agree on an open standard already and allow windows to manage the rgb internally. No one wants MSI center MSI. I don't want to get news from you to change my RGB or have you run your updater on startup to control a diode on my graphics card.

Thats about the only rant I have about the components I bought but in fairness, all of the manufacturers seem equal to blame here.

[EightyDuce]

3 hours ago, trevoC said:

So tired of all the bloatware from manufacturers. Personally, I'm not fan of RGB. It looks nice but I control my lighting environments myself (room) and don't like the flashlight that MSI has installed on the liquid X 4090. Thing is effin bright.

In order to turn off all the rgb in my case I have to install 3 different piece of crap software solutions that want you to have an account and run their updater and talk to my mom on weekends.

IMO either disable RGB by default unless you install that crap, or agree on an open standard already and allow windows to manage the rgb internally. No one wants MSI center MSI. I don't want to get news from you to change my RGB or have you run your updater on startup to control a diode on my graphics card.

Thats about the only rant I have about the components I bought but in fairness, all of the manufacturers seem equal to blame here.

Windows is integrating RGB control sometime soon-ish. It's already in the preview builds and should hopefully eliminate the trash that is RGB control.

[trevoC]

1 hour ago, EightyDuce said:

Windows is integrating RGB control sometime soon-ish. It's already in the preview builds and should hopefully eliminate the trash that is RGB control.

Saw that on one of the developer talks. I just want it all off and don't want to run 3 software programs to turn lighting off. seems crazy. The GSkill ram is very bright and bothers me at night, but the MSI liquid X 4090 has an LED flashlight built in that lights up the room. Part of me wants to take it apart and remove the LED, lol.

[Th3ChosenOn3]

15 hours ago, Th3ChosenOn3 said:

Have you tested your ram on DCS multiplayer?

I've got the same kit and plugged in Buildzoid's timings, system seemed stable and working, but I would get IC failures on random files when I play online, and going back to the XMP profile fixed the IC issues.

@EightyDuce Nevermind, I got the buildzoid timings working. Thanks for sharing your settings as I used it to figure out that I mistakenly turned off GDM (Gear Down Mode), because I thought it was PowerDown. For some reason PowerDown isn't available in my bois, but I did find it mentioned in the bios manual. 

Anyways, here's my settings in case anybody is using the same MB and memory:

[trevoC]

Pretty excited to provide this update.

prior system was Oc'd around 15% for some context and had close to a year and a half of tuning here and there.

I'm not ready to record anything yet as I still have a lot of tuning to do and I don't even have my hotas setup yet, but I decided to run that torture test track sent in the attachment earlier for <profanity>s and giggles.

Note: I haven't OC'd this system at all yet, cores seem to park just fine with the game bar (not a fan of this method but it will have to do) and I was running steam (it was downloading games at the time full tilt) which I usually run DCS without steam (prior test was without) and I didn't kill any of my tray applications (around a half dozen or so). CPU utilization at idle (idle in this case with steam running etc.. was 3-6%)

You can watch the prior video (base 5900x/3090 benchmark) that I'm comparing this to in a prior reply.

My expectation was a 50% gain and that's why I bought all this crap.... for 50% gain. What DCS VR users will do for fps... <sigh> To be honest, I was expecting to be disappointed and was preparing for less than that (as I have been in the past .... looking at you 3090 although in fairness it never really ran well with a 5900x who is definitely at fault there.)

I've seen all the hype videos and did have a glimmer of hope.

The prior test ran at around 35 fps most of the time with dismal 99% scores so I was hoping for 52 fps (50% gains)

I think this may be the largest system upgrade jump I've ever taken, and I rarely miss an upgrade in CPU or Graphics generation. (I'll skip the TI variants of each unless I skipped the original)

I will still make the video when I get all my peripherals installed and the system overclocked and tuned and stress tested etc.... but here was what I got essentially.

My most common fps measure was around 64 fps but it would basically float around 63-73 fps so I'm guessing that would average somewhere in between. I may have witnessed more 63's than 73's so we'll say maybe 66 fps ish. My average 99% fps was higher than the last system's average fps and it never went below 40 fps. I saw as high as 90 fps when things were not as busy and the lowest fps I witnessed was 53 for a second.

Couldn't be happier with the jump in performance which is just shy of double or 100% gains. Twice what I was optimistically expecting. With DLSS and other goods, I'm guessing MSFS will be a dream now.

If ED improves on their software in the meantime I may be chasing fps a lot less in DCS in the next few years. Of course, now I'll be tempted to start bumping things up a bit soooooo the hunt continues.

I also was too excited and forgot to see how stressed my GPU was compared to CPU. I'm guessing I'm still CPU limited but I honestly didn't even remember to look at that. I was mostly swinging my head back and forth as fast as I could enjoying 70 fps smoothness that I am not used to, lol.

I'm guessing when OC'd and optimized and not running other applications this system will be a solid 2x faster than the 5900x/3090 system or more.

Anyways, just wanted to provide my first impressions on the first run. Will definitely post a video and more as I get this system wrapped up and back to normal.

[trevoC]

Ok, couldn't sleep without checking how the CPU and GPU were doing against each other.

As I suspected, still CPU bound which is better in my circumstances than the latter IMO.

GPU utilization floats between 55 and 70% spending most of the time around 63ish% utilization.

This is good for two reasons. One, if multi-threading drops sooner than later I will take advantage of most or all of those gains without hitting a GPU wall or two if MT doesn't drop soon the next 9000x CPU is a pretty cheap upgrade to utilize the 4090 more and get gains there without replacing the entire system. AM5 is bound to be supported through the next or next two upgrades with DDR5 support etc..

Being CPU limited on a platform that can grow (AM5) isn't so bad. AM4 with the 5900x had nowhere for me to move without a complete re-do and the GPU's are getting out of this world in price. Harder and Harder to swallow that pill.

Hope this helps someone make their decisions easier. Again, will post videos of all of this.