A/A Refueling fail, fail repeat.

[Sr.]

Can someone please point out what it is I'm doing wrong? Feels like I'm in position (though still struggling). Trimmed out, Boom comes active, seems like this may FINALLY be the time I get hooked up, nozzle meets nose, only to continually pass through the aircraft.... only to repeat this scenario over and over.

 

See attached track file. This is a couple attempts of MANY.

Fail.trk

[MAXsenna]

Did open the door?
And I'd you have disconnect, you need to press the reset button on the grip. Didn't remember the name.
I struggled with this for days, until I got a tip from Hammer here.

Cheers!

Edit: Reset with the nosewheel steering button I believe. And watch lights up to the right. Should say connect/disconnect or something.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Sr.]

10 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Did open the door?
And I'd you have disconnect, you need to press the reset button on the grip. Didn't remember the name.
I struggled with this for days, until I got a tip from Hammer here.

Cheers!

Edit: Reset with the nosewheel steering button I believe. And watch lights up to the right. Should say connect/disconnect or something.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk


 

I'll keep that one in mind. Though the boom stays active between attempts. Just seems to want to "insert" further back than it should.

Easier to understand by watching the track file in F2 mode.

[jaylw314]

6 hours ago, Sr. said:

Can someone please point out what it is I'm doing wrong? Feels like I'm in position (though still struggling). Trimmed out, Boom comes active, seems like this may FINALLY be the time I get hooked up, nozzle meets nose, only to continually pass through the aircraft.... only to repeat this scenario over and over.

 

See attached track file. This is a couple attempts of MANY.

Fail.trk 2.93 MB · 3 downloads

Watching your track, it's tough to tell how accurate the track is.  It LOOKS like you're driving straight forwards to connect.  The boom limits are defined by its angle, so you want to move forward and UP.  Likewise, to back off, you want to move backwards and down.

If you drive forwards without moving up, you'll move in and out of the allowable boom angle before it has a chance to connect.  You want to keep the base of the boom stationary (maybe just under the canopy arch) as you move in (forward/up) and out (backward/down).

It's tough to see the director lights, but the U/D light measures your angular position to the boom, not your relative altitude, and it should stay centered.

FWIW, the telescoping section of the boom starts out mid-length, so once you connect, you only have HALF the allowable wiggle room in terms of distance.  You REALLY need to creep up on the boom so that you don't overshoot.  Once you do connect, then you have the full amount of wiggle room in and out.

Edited March 7, 2023 by jaylw314

[ASAP]

I’d recommend a different approach. Drive straight and Ignore the boom entirely. You should be attempting to fly close trail on the airplane. Put the engines just above the G meter/compass. And hold them there. That fixes up/down/left/right.  Drive straight ahead with very little closure. When the boom starts moving to plug you start to smoothly arrest your closure. For keeping your position in/out (forward backward)once you are connected, use the boom (I know, I know, I just said to ignore it) there are colors on the boom. Keep the part where it goes into the knuckle in the green. But remember you are flying in relation to the aircraft not the boom. 
 

If you fly the jet too the boom,the problem is that the boom is also trying to fly to you, so you really easily get into an oscillating dance with the boom and it never works out well  

 

[Yurgon]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:29 AM, Sr. said:

Can someone please point out what it is I'm doing wrong?

Your flying in the track looks very good; very stable approach to the tanker, very well balanced advance toward the boom.

But: the one thing that looks totally wrong to me is your height below the tanker; I see you waaay too low. In this very low position, you keep pushing forward until the boom can no longer keep up.

For whatever reason, the DCS boom operator always raises the boom shortly before the receiver gets ready to connect. After the boom operator puts the boom up, that's where you should meet it. If you climb up to that height and then push forward like you already did, you should get a connect 10 times out of 10.

I think that's also what jaylw314 says above (whether you move up first and then advance, or move up while advancing, that's up to you).

18 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

It's tough to see the director lights, but the U/D light measures your angular position to the boom, not your relative altitude, and it should stay centered.

I might be wrong, but I think the lights on the bottom of the tanker don't apply to the A-10; with the receptacle right in front of the cockpit, the pilot can fly off visual references of the tanker, unlike F-15 or F-16 or B-2 with the receptacle behind the canopy, where the pilot absolutely needs to fly off the director lights because the boom will be out of view (until pilots get so proficient that they can fly off the visual references of the tanker, like the wing and engine position relative to the canopy bow or whatever else they can use as reference).

16 hours ago, ASAP said:

Put the engines just above the G meter/compass.

For many months, the tanker's engines have been pretty much hidden from my view by the A-10's canopy bow. I used to be able to use them as reference, but with the default view, this just doesn't work for me any longer. In OP's track, I also wasn't even able to see the tanker's engines; I haven't done any tweaking to the default view (at least not that I'm aware of) and I'm assuming this also affects other players, making a visual reference hard to use for us DCS players that real pilots could easily use.

[jaylw314]

32 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

Your flying in the track looks very good; very stable approach to the tanker, very well balanced advance toward the boom.

But: the one thing that looks totally wrong to me is your height below the tanker; I see you waaay too low. In this very low position, you keep pushing forward until the boom can no longer keep up.

For whatever reason, the DCS boom operator always raises the boom shortly before the receiver gets ready to connect. After the boom operator puts the boom up, that's where you should meet it. If you climb up to that height and then push forward like you already did, you should get a connect 10 times out of 10.

I think that's also what jaylw314 says above (whether you move up first and then advance, or move up while advancing, that's up to you).

I might be wrong, but I think the lights on the bottom of the tanker don't apply to the A-10; with the receptacle right in front of the cockpit, the pilot can fly off visual references of the tanker, unlike F-15 or F-16 or B-2 with the receptacle behind the canopy, where the pilot absolutely needs to fly off the director lights because the boom will be out of view (until pilots get so proficient that they can fly off the visual references of the tanker, like the wing and engine position relative to the canopy bow or whatever else they can use as reference).

For many months, the tanker's engines have been pretty much hidden from my view by the A-10's canopy bow. I used to be able to use them as reference, but with the default view, this just doesn't work for me any longer. In OP's track, I also wasn't even able to see the tanker's engines; I haven't done any tweaking to the default view (at least not that I'm aware of) and I'm assuming this also affects other players, making a visual reference hard to use for us DCS players that real pilots could easily use.

Yes, the director lights are tough to see, but you can if you tilt your head to the left while flying.  Not great for posture   I was referencing the director lights more so for when you're watching a replay in F2 view, though, it can be quite instructive for debriefing yourself!

I put the boom operator window at the very top of the canopy arch and keep it there, so basically flying formation with the dude in the window.  Another reference  is to keep the tanker wingroots 2/3 of the way between the top of the HUD and the canopy arch.  Both keep you on the 30 degree down line.

[Sr.]

1 hour ago, Yurgon said:

Your flying in the track looks very good; very stable approach to the tanker, very well balanced advance toward the boom.

But: the one thing that looks totally wrong to me is your height below the tanker; I see you waaay too low. In this very low position, you keep pushing forward until the boom can no longer keep up.

For whatever reason, the DCS boom operator always raises the boom shortly before the receiver gets ready to connect. After the boom operator puts the boom up, that's where you should meet it. If you climb up to that height and then push forward like you already did, you should get a connect 10 times out of 10.

I think that's also what jaylw314 says above (whether you move up first and then advance, or move up while advancing, that's up to you).

I might be wrong, but I think the lights on the bottom of the tanker don't apply to the A-10; with the receptacle right in front of the cockpit, the pilot can fly off visual references of the tanker, unlike F-15 or F-16 or B-2 with the receptacle behind the canopy, where the pilot absolutely needs to fly off the director lights because the boom will be out of view (until pilots get so proficient that they can fly off the visual references of the tanker, like the wing and engine position relative to the canopy bow or whatever else they can use as reference).

For many months, the tanker's engines have been pretty much hidden from my view by the A-10's canopy bow. I used to be able to use them as reference, but with the default view, this just doesn't work for me any longer. In OP's track, I also wasn't even able to see the tanker's engines; I haven't done any tweaking to the default view (at least not that I'm aware of) and I'm assuming this also affects other players, making a visual reference hard to use for us DCS players that real pilots could easily use.

That gets me every time... you would think it would move into "contact" position when he announces.  

I did manage several short and then a few minute + successful hookups earlier this evening. I'm finally getting the hang of constant dance required by the HOTAS.

Just have to work on staying calm and continue to fly the plane after hookup.

Probably just a glitch but, I realized after watching the track file external views that even on the cleanest connect, the boom nozzle will usually "connect" just aft of the actual refuel door opening.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Sr.

[MAXsenna]

I agree with others. The hardest part for me was being "high" enough, and see the tanker engines for reference.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Sr. said:

That gets me every time... you would think it would move into "contact" position when he announces.  

I did manage several short and then a few minute + successful hookups earlier this evening. I'm finally getting the hang of constant dance required by the HOTAS.

Just have to work on staying calm and continue to fly the plane after hookup.

Probably just a glitch but, I realized after watching the track file external views that even on the cleanest connect, the boom nozzle will usually "connect" just aft of the actual refuel door opening.

 

Nice work!  That top image looks great, I might be a little higher so I can just see the operator window, but there's no 'right' picture, since your seat position matters.

Yes, the actual connection point on the external view does look a little wonky, doesn't it?  At least from inside it doesn't make a difference  Congratulations!  The A-10's nose refueling point is a unique challenge!