Any news on the Mig-23?

[Кош]

1 час назад, Mainstay сказал:

To be honest Chizh the MiG-29A is no equal to the F-16CJ or the FA-18C we have ingame... For REDFOR to have an equal candidate we need the MiG-29S.

Chizh was meaning historical balance, which is right, but just for 2005-2010 timeframe. But not the 80's.

[PLAAF]

On 12/9/2024 at 9:02 PM, pepin1234 said:

I don’t use this Sim anymore. I will not buy anything for DCS unless ED change his policy for RU planes. 

Wait, you mean there is a policy regarding the RU planes??!!! 

[TotenDead]

2 часа назад, PLAAF сказал:

Wait, you mean there is a policy regarding the RU planes??!!! 

Well, apparently the fate of russian planes lies in the hands of customers. According to DotruGirl, if sales show that it's worth making those, some more may be made in the future

В 08.01.2025 в 17:16, Mainstay сказал:

To be honest Chizh the MiG-29A is no equal to the F-16CJ or the FA-18C we have ingame... For REDFOR to have an equal candidate we need the MiG-29S.

It is. If you use it in 80s scenarios. Not many of those present in on-line, unfortunately 

[pjbunnyru]

16 минут назад, TotenDead сказал:

Well, apparently the fate of russian planes lies in the hands of customers. According to DotruGirl, if sales show that it's worth making those, some more may be made in the future

It is. If you use it in 80s scenarios. Not many of those present in on-line, unfortunately 

 

2 часа назад, PLAAF сказал:

Wait, you mean there is a policy regarding the RU planes??!!! 

 

[okopanja]

On 1/8/2025 at 3:16 PM, Mainstay said:

To be honest Chizh the MiG-29A is no equal to the F-16CJ or the FA-18C we have ingame... For REDFOR to have an equal candidate we need the MiG-29S.

Possibility to upgrade 9.12 airframe to carry R-77 did exist and was offered abroad as of 1996.

And btw really disappointed not to see 23 here in 25.

Edited January 16 by okopanja

[PLAAF]

4 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Well, apparently the fate of russian planes lies in the hands of customers. According to DotruGirl, if sales show that it's worth making those, some more may be made in the future

I highly doubt that. People have been asking for more Red Plane for eons.

[MAXsenna]

I highly doubt that. People have been asking for more Red Plane for eons.

It might be due to sales. Let's pray the MiG-29 takes off! 9L posted in another thread the Su-27 is possible while the team is busy with the MiG.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[pepin1234]

After the last video by ED (DCS and beyond 2025) showing only the oldy first variant and only Soviet 4th gen fighter Mig-29A plus more than 3 western adversaries for Mig-29A (including F-15C instead the contemporary F-15A) do you still expect a miracle from ED for Redfor fighters. With such a situation with Redfor in DCS, works on Mig-23MLA by Razbam should have priority for 2025 roadmap of new modules to introduce Redfor fighters in DCS. Nobody cares... 

[Кош]

3 часа назад, pepin1234 сказал:

After the last video by ED (DCS and beyond 2025) showing only the oldy first variant and only Soviet 4th gen fighter Mig-29A plus more than 3 western adversaries for Mig-29A (including F-15C instead the contemporary F-15A) do you still expect a miracle from ED for Redfor fighters. With such a situation with Redfor in DCS, works on Mig-23MLA by Razbam should have priority for 2025 roadmap of new modules to introduce Redfor fighters in DCS. Nobody cares... 

At this moment all developed Razbam modules are cancelled. Key MiG-23 devs have left for paid jobs after not being paid for over a year.

[Hodo]

On 12/9/2024 at 5:02 AM, pepin1234 said:

I don’t use this Sim anymore. I will not buy anything for DCS unless ED change his policy for RU planes. 

 

ED doesnt have a "policy" for RU planes.  It is following RUSSIAN LAW on modelling high fidelity representations of its military assets, both present and past without explicit permission from the Kremlin.  

 

You can look it up it is a thing.   Eagle Dynamics was originally a Russian based company with several of its programmers and coders still living there, they can not risk doing something that would jeopardize those individuals and it would be unfair to fire them and higher more expensive western programmers and coders. 

[TotenDead]

4 часа назад, Hodo сказал:

 

ED doesnt have a "policy" for RU planes.  It is following RUSSIAN LAW on modelling high fidelity representations of its military assets, both present and past without explicit permission from the Kremlin.  

 

You can look it up it is a thing.   Eagle Dynamics was originally a Russian based company with several of its programmers and coders still living there, they can not risk doing something that would jeopardize those individuals and it would be unfair to fire them and higher more expensive western programmers and coders. 

MiG-29, Mi-24, Ka-50-3

[jojyrocks]

6 hours ago, Hodo said:

 

ED doesnt have a "policy" for RU planes.  It is following RUSSIAN LAW on modelling high fidelity representations of its military assets, both present and past without explicit permission from the Kremlin.  

 

You can look it up it is a thing.   Eagle Dynamics was originally a Russian based company with several of its programmers and coders still living there, they can not risk doing something that would jeopardize those individuals and it would be unfair to fire them and higher more expensive western programmers and coders. 

Cold war jets can still be modelled. Especially, the now dead Mig 23, Mig 27 and Su-17/22. I am sure it is well over retired and documents are not secretive anymore on those.

[pepin1234]

On 1/22/2025 at 2:37 AM, Hodo said:

 

ED doesnt have a "policy" for RU planes.  It is following RUSSIAN LAW on modelling high fidelity representations of its military assets, both present and past without explicit permission from the Kremlin.  

 

You can look it up it is a thing.   Eagle Dynamics was originally a Russian based company with several of its programmers and coders still living there, they can not risk doing something that would jeopardize those individuals and it would be unfair to fire them and higher more expensive western programmers and coders. 

Another pure misinformation to keep community as a repeater telling the same everywhere 

On 1/22/2025 at 8:47 AM, jojyrocks said:

Cold war jets can still be modelled. Especially, the now dead Mig 23, Mig 27 and Su-17/22. I am sure it is well over retired and documents are not secretive anymore on those.

MiG-25 is in a NATO country museum and many pilots still alive. They just don’t want to bring you the reality hard true for them. 
 

Mig-25 was able to droop FAB-500 from +70km in very extreme flight profile 

Edited January 24 by pepin1234

[karapus78]

On 1/22/2025 at 1:37 PM, Hodo said:

 

ED doesnt have a "policy" for RU planes. It is following RUSSIAN LAW on modelling high fidelity representations of its military assets, both present and past without explicit permission from the Kremlin.

 

You can look it up it is a thing. Eagle Dynamics was originally a Russian based company with several of its programmers and coders still living there, they can not risk doing something that would jeopardize those individuals and it would be unfair to fire them and higher more expensive western programmers and coders.

Do you still believe in fairy tales of secrecy?)))))) This is a game and everything is for fun. Don't fill your head with false information. After the announcement of the F-35 by pictures and clips, what secrecy can we talk about?)

[Dragon1-1]

On 1/24/2025 at 7:59 PM, karapus78 said:

Do you still believe in fairy tales of secrecy?

It's not about secrecy, or even lack of documentation. It's about Russia putting the devs in jail if they as much as imagine they're poking around something secret. In Russia, you don't even need to commit a crime to be jailed, just ask... well, anyone they've thrown in jail for political reasons lately. That's why with any Russian design, they're walking on eggshells and making damn sure nobody is going to have a problem with the module. This is also why ED is open to 3rd party projects like the MiG-23, because they're developed by people that Russia can't get its hands on, and ED can wash their hands off whatever they're doing.

The US doesn't do that (yet...), which is what allowed ED to make some missing details up for the F-35 and just use what they have. In the US, you get due process and if they want to accuse you of stealing information, they have to prove you actually did. If you can prove you made an educated guess based on unclassified data, you're fine. If you guess is too accurate, you can get a visit from the FBI, but they tend to leave without fuss once you show how you made your guess.

[Volator]

35 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It's not about secrecy, or even lack of documentation. It's about Russia putting the devs in jail if they as much as imagine they're poking around something secret. In Russia, you don't even need to commit a crime to be jailed, just ask... well, anyone they've thrown in jail for political reasons lately. That's why with any Russian design, they're walking on eggshells and making damn sure nobody is going to have a problem with the module. This is also why ED is open to 3rd party projects like the MiG-23, because they're developed by people that Russia can't get its hands on, and ED can wash their hands off whatever they're doing.

The US doesn't do that (yet...), which is what allowed ED to make some missing details up for the F-35 and just use what they have. In the US, you get due process and if they want to accuse you of stealing information, they have to prove you actually did. If you can prove you made an educated guess based on unclassified data, you're fine. If you guess is too accurate, you can get a visit from the FBI, but they tend to leave without fuss once you show how you made your guess.

Yes, but with ED officially developing a MiG-29 and already having published a Mi-24P, other Soviet CW aircraft like the MiG-23 - this is what this thread is about - should be no problem for ED.

ED should actively endeavor development of a MiG-23 and a Su-17/22 module to close the most significant gaps in the Cold War scenario. Both have been retired from service for a long time now.

[Dragon1-1]

That doesn't matter, what matters is whether Russians cooperate. Apparently, MiG-29 took quite a bit of wheelin' and dealing' with the Russian government for them to actually be allowed to touch it. They got it on paper, that no, the government will not put anyone in jail over "stealing information" if they make it. Same with the Mi-24. 

MiG-23 was being worked on by RAZBAM because they actually found someone, I think in Angola, willing to work with them on it. They didn't deal with the Russians.

[Volator]

36 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

They got it on paper, that no, the government will not put anyone in jail over "stealing information" if they make it. Same with the Mi-24.

Do you have any confirmation for that, or is that just guesswork?

Anyway, I highly doubt that any such papers would have any value when the fit hits the shan dealing with the Russians, but well...

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, Volator said:

Do you have any confirmation for that, or is that just guesswork?

You probably don't realize it, but this is a ridiculous question to anyone living in a post-Soviet country. They are making the MiG-29, that's all the confirmation we need. It simply must be (physically!) on paper, likely multiple pages of bureaucratic drivel that say, "yes, we are sure you can do this thing". Anyone who ever did business with any government in any post-Soviet country knows that. It's nothing like making an American plane, where you just need a bog standard IP licensing agreement and unclassified docs.

While the Russian government is perfectly capable of ignoring something that's on paper, that power rests with people who are typically not concerned with a game company. The difference is, without that stack of papers, you can be sent to jail because some random pen pusher doesn't like your face. With them, you'd need to piss off someone higher up than the highest ranking signatory in that stack. It's no protection from Putin's whims, but Putin has no time to bully people at random. Russia is not a total anarchy, it's an overbloated bureaucracy that is easily and frequently abused.

[MAXsenna]

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

They got it on paper,

 

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It simply must be (physically!)

Not picking a fight, while these are assumptions on your part. 

5 hours ago, Volator said:

Anyway, I highly doubt that any such papers would have any value when the fit hits the shan dealing with the Russians, but well...

Exactly my thoughts. 

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

MiG-23 was being worked on by RAZBAM because they actually found someone, I think in Angola, willing to work with them on it.

Cool, I always thought it was the Cubans.

We will probably see the Su-27 next, if the MiG-29 sells well. ED moderators have stated as much. Then an Su-25 perhaps? Personally I have feeling these "laws" were just a convenient way to say "No" at the time. 

Edited January 30 by MAXsenna

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Not picking a fight, while these are assumptions on your part. 

Yes, much like it's an assumption that ED didn't get F-35 docs from an UFO that landed in their backyard. I live in a post-Soviet country, my parents remembering the old regime, and know a few Russians and Ukrainians myself. When I say paperwork is a law of nature in Russia, I'm not exaggerating.

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Cool, I always thought it was the Cubans.

Could've been Cubans, I don't remember the exact country, but I do recall it was one that actually got some real combat experience with the MiG-23.

[MAXsenna]

9 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

When I say paperwork is a law of nature in Russia, I'm not exaggerating.

Fair points. I'll take your word from it. I thought you were from another place. My bad.

10 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Could've been Cubans, I don't remember the exact country, but I do recall it was one that actually got some real combat experience with the MiG-23.

Ah, this makes real sense. Didn't Cuba support Angola in that capacity? We need an African map now.

[Dragon1-1]

They did, and Angolan Civil War would be a pretty interesting conflict to have, with several instances of MiG-23s throwing down with Mirage F1s. Of course, that's assuming we do get the MiG-23 eventually...

[MAXsenna]

They did, and Angolan Civil War would be a pretty interesting conflict to have, with several instances of MiG-23s throwing down with Mirage F1s. Of course, that's assuming we do get the MiG-23 eventually...

Kate promised.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[GeorgeVB]

13 часов назад, Dragon1-1 сказал:

The difference is, without that stack of papers, you can be sent to jail because some random pen pusher doesn't like your face. With them, you'd need to piss off someone higher up than the highest ranking signatory in that stack. It's no protection from Putin's whims, but Putin has no time to bully people at random. Russia is not a total anarchy, it's an overbloated bureaucracy that is easily and frequently abused.

Maybe it's worth discussing the plane in the topic and not writing fictions about a country where you haven't been?