Used 3090 vs new 4070ti

[DCoffey]

I currently have been using a 3060ti since it came out, and VR is pretty good at around 20fps, but now that the card has gotten older, I want to replace it. Used 3090s are roughly the same price of new 4070ti's, I know that DCS is working on DLSS so I am leaning toward the 4070ti.

 

Whats anyones opinion? Anyone use a 4070 in VR currently?

[derneuemann]

I myself would like to upgrade from a 3060TI to a 4070Ti, but the 12GB VRam puts me off a bit.

That's why I tend towards a used RTX3090. But I only do that if I know the seller and who will support me in a warranty case. Because a 3090 is just too expensive to buy used without having to think about it.

I think DCS will only support up to DLSS 2.2 and not DLSS 3, so there is no advantage for the 4070Ti at this point. The 3090 will also benefit greatly from this.

If someone could provide benchmarks of a 4070Ti in VR, with frametimes on the Mariannas, and they were good, then I would lean towards a 4070Ti. (Of course, specifying the settings, high textures would be a must for me)

[draconus]

11 hours ago, DCoffey said:

Used 3090s are roughly the same price of new 4070ti's...

For a reason - they're about the same performance. Looking at the VRAM I'd say it'd be even downgrade unless you need some new magic function from 40 series.

[Mr_sukebe]

4 hours ago, derneuemann said:

…I think DCS will only support up to DLSS 2.2 and not DLSS 3, so there is no advantage for the 4070Ti at this point. 

Source or speculation?

If ED implement DLSS2, I could very well see them adding in support for v3 at some point, as it does appear to assist with smoothness.

I have to say that I’d be inclined to look at a 40 series now for the future proof capabilities.

[LucShep]

The RTX3090 may be older, eat more watts and run hotter, but it has double the VRAM (24GB vs 12GB) which is GDDR6X (=pretty expensive) and also double the memory bus size (384-bit vs 192-bit) when compared to the RTX4070Ti.

More VRAM is very important. For example, F-14A/B launching from carrier and then over Syria, high settings at 4K resolution, VRAM can hit 14GB+ (note: not allocated, used).
More memory bus size is also very important, because it's the rate at which data can be read from or stored, like a maximum theoretical bandwidth (like more lanes dedicated for traffic, the greater the flow). It's important especially at higher resolutions and with bigger data in use (such as the many enormous textures of DCS!).

So, those are very important aspects for higher resolutions (4K and VR) and makes the RTX3090 the stronger product of the two, also for longer term, even if it only supports up to DLSS 2.x (RTX4070Ti supports newest DLSS 3.x). 
As said on some other thread, DCS doesn't support DLSS anyway and, when and if it does, it's not like version 2.x isn't good enough... so the DLSS part here is a moot point. 

Yes, brand new from the store, both GPUs are absolutely horrible value. 
But you can get an RTX3090 used (2nd hand) in mint condition these days for nearly half of the (outrageous) prices that they try to sell them new.
None of that is happening with used RTX4070Ti (at least AFAIK).

All of which makes the RTX3090 more appealing, and a better investment IMO. Even if it's been over two years since its launch, and even if it's one bought as 2nd hand product.

One thing that should be added is that the RTX3090 requires at least a quality 850W+ PSU, whereas you might get away with just 700W+ if with a RTX4070Ti.
That said, the RTX3090 really appreciates undervolting, which is easy and a "must do" for anyone using one (see forum thread here).

Edited March 15, 2023 by LucShep

[Morat]

I'd buy a used 3090 myself. 40 series pricing is disgusting.

[Chic]

Currently run i7-8700k / 1080ti / 1000w PS / 62” 4K display.  Would a used 3090 be under appreciated by this CPU.  Please consider that I don’t expect to grow old with this upgrade, and am prepared to re-rig down the line. Thanks for any thoughts. 

[draconus]

7 hours ago, Chic said:

Currently run i7-8700k / 1080ti / 1000w PS / 62” 4K display.  Would a used 3090 be under appreciated by this CPU.  Please consider that I don’t expect to grow old with this upgrade, and am prepared to re-rig down the line. Thanks for any thoughts. 

It might not be the best match but the settings are there to squize out every bit of whatever card you put in. You can then go crazy with AA or DP for Rift.

[Lurker]

8 hours ago, Chic said:

Currently run i7-8700k / 1080ti / 1000w PS / 62” 4K display.  Would a used 3090 be under appreciated by this CPU.  Please consider that I don’t expect to grow old with this upgrade, and am prepared to re-rig down the line. Thanks for any thoughts. 

No, you will notice a huge improvement. However you will also notice a big jump as soon as you upgrade that CPU whenever you get around to it. 

[Chic]

Thanks for the input.  Just picked one up on eBay. 

[Chic]

UPDATE:  So I switched out the 1080ti for for a used Game X Trio 3090. 
Not sure if this  “used/new” card is cutting it.  
Running with MSI AB deactivated, I’m getting @ 35% more frames with limited testing in DCS. 
Heaven Benchmarking 3090/1080ti comparison:   Score 1426/1106;  FPS 56.6/43.9.

I’m noticing that when in DCS or HB the GPU Clock starts out in 17-1800 range then quickly falls to 6-900.

GPU temps hover in low 60s without any significant spiking.  

MemoryClock steady @ 1215.

Any and all attempts at OC’ing with MSI AB result in decrease performance.

I do notice when MSI AB Scanner is running that GPU Clocks do reach 17–1800s.
Is this reasonable behavior (paired with i7-8700k) or a beat up used 3090.

UPDATE 2:  Okay, minutes after I submitted the update above I noticed that on GPU-Z the Performance Cap Reason is THERMAL. 

I didn’t consider that cuz I’m not seeing spikes in GPU temps.  Could it be that Thermal Hot Spots are an issue?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Chic

[Dragon1-1]

Depending on how old the used GPU is, it might be up for repasting. Do check your hot spot temperature, GPU-Z should show that. Knowing the radiator temps is less useful than the actual GPU temps. Memory is important, as well, I don't know if your particular GPU monitors it, but GPU isn't the only thing that gets hot on a graphics card.

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Chic said:

UPDATE:  So I switched out the 1080ti for for a used Game X Trio 3090. 
Not sure if this  “used/new” card is cutting it.  
Running with MSI AB deactivated, I’m getting @ 35% more frames with limited testing in DCS. 
Heaven Benchmarking 3090/1080ti comparison:   Score 1426/1106;  FPS 56.6/43.9.

I’m noticing that when in DCS or HB the GPU Clock starts out in 17-1800 range then quickly falls to 6-900.

GPU temps hover in low 60s without any significant spiking.  

MemoryClock steady @ 1215.

Any and all attempts at OC’ing with MSI AB result in decrease performance.

I do notice when MSI AB Scanner is running that GPU Clocks do reach 17–1800s.
Is this reasonable behavior (paired with i7-8700k) or a beat up used 3090.

UPDATE 2:  Okay, minutes after I submitted the update above I noticed that on GPU-Z the Performance Cap Reason is THERMAL. 

I didn’t consider that cuz I’m not seeing spikes in GPU temps.  Could it be that Thermal Hot Spots are an issue?

 

 

The 3090s get hot. Also, you need to under-volt, NOT I repeat NOT overclock that card. It doesn't lose much performance (realistically 1-2%) and it runs much cooler and more efficiently. Another thing to consider is your ambient case temperatures and airflow. All that heat needs to go somewhere and if you are not dissipating it properly it you will run into thermal issues. 

At 4K you should really see much better frames than you are getting compared to the 1080ti. Did you do a clean reinstall of your drivers?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Lurker

[Chic]

Thanks for rapid response. 
The hot spot and memory temps appear within normal limits.  I believe my Adventum 3 case is well ventilated. CPU water cooled. 
I would consider repasting if I had more objective evidence of overheating. Same issue with UnderVolting, but guess it wouldnt hurt. 
I uninstalled old driver thru windows but did not use any driver uninstall utility. 
BTW, baseline 0.7310V.  FWIW. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Chic

[Dragon1-1]

See if undervolt helps. Also, do verify airflow, I've had problems with my own rig, since the radiator does not let a whole lot of air through (mine is on the intake, due to case being a little too small) and depending on how many other fans you have, you might not be blowing as much air on the GPU as you should be. 

[Chic]

Will do.  Thanks. 

[Chic]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:36 AM, Chic said:

UPDATE:  So I switched out the 1080ti for for a used Game X Trio 3090. 
Not sure if this  “used/new” card is cutting it.  
Running with MSI AB deactivated, I’m getting @ 35% more frames with limited testing in DCS. 
Heaven Benchmarking 3090/1080ti comparison:   Score 1426/1106;  FPS 56.6/43.9.

I’m noticing that when in DCS or HB the GPU Clock starts out in 17-1800 range then quickly falls to 6-900.

GPU temps hover in low 60s without any significant spiking.  

MemoryClock steady @ 1215.

Any and all attempts at OC’ing with MSI AB result in decrease performance.

I do notice when MSI AB Scanner is running that GPU Clocks do reach 17–1800s.
Is this reasonable behavior (paired with i7-8700k) or a beat up used 3090.

UPDATE 2:  Okay, minutes after I submitted the update above I noticed that on GPU-Z the Performance Cap Reason is THERMAL. 

I didn’t consider that cuz I’m not seeing spikes in GPU temps.  Could it be that Thermal Hot Spots are an issue?

 

So the Game X Trio 3090 was defective.   It was thermal throttling at modest graphic loads and relatively low temps.  
Fortunately the EBay seller accepted the return.  I replaced it with a used Strix 3090 and am very happy.  
Heaven Benchmarking is roughly 3 X higher than the 1080ti and 2 1/4 X greater than the defective 3090.  Frame rates doubled in DCS.  

Hopefully this card holds up long enough for it to become otherwise obsolete.  
Thanks all for the advice. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Chic

[DCoffey]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:40 PM, DCoffey said:

I currently have been using a 3060ti since it came out, and VR is pretty good at around 20fps, but now that the card has gotten older, I want to replace it. Used 3090s are roughly the same price of new 4070ti's, I know that DCS is working on DLSS so I am leaning toward the 4070ti.

 

Whats anyones opinion? Anyone use a 4070 in VR currently?

Update:

 

I bought a openbox 4070ti with a $250 savings, I am so glad I did. I now can run DCS on max everything, also increased the bitrate and now the cockpit is crystal clear in VR on the quest 2 and its at 36FPS solid, I think thats because I have the refresh set at 72, I may try to go to 80 or 90 but see no reason to for now. no more ground studders in my UH-1 even on marianas, solid 36fps. For me, 10700k, 32gb, SSD this was the thing that I needed.  Oh, and I never hear the fans spin, this card runs cool. my 3060Ti would go full blast after a few minutes.

Hope this helps anyone else who may be on the fence.