fixed RWR not reacting to active radar tracking and missile launches

[Boshizy]

SAME!  I've only been playing multiplayer.  General behavior is get a quick paint by the sam system then it will drop.  Doesn't ping you again or give a launch warning...wait a minute or two and die.  It's basically unplayable in MP.  Same thing has happend with a SEAD'd out F16 with HAS and HARMS as it has with an F18.  I was dying to undetected SA5s on one server 50 miles out with no warning whatsoever.

[Eihort]

I can confirm this as well with the SA5.

Currently unplayable in Multiplayer.

[MarkyMark]

41 minutes ago, Eihort said:

I can confirm this as well with the SA5.

Currently unplayable in Multiplayer.

Makes SEAD almost impossible, need launch warnings to time the egress, but now, you’re lucky to get a visual and by that time it’s probably too late. Not sure how the harms in PB mode are affected but I’m having no luck with that either, only thing working is harm too mode for me but still need to get a visual on a launch to be able to avoid.  People getting smoked left and right heh 

[falcon_120]

Obviously is frustrating and I also want it fixed, but on other hand is as real as it can get for certain planes with less advanced EW/RWR equipment.

What I mean is, IRL you just not happily enter a SAM wez waiting for the launch warning to launch a harm and evade, you either stay completely out of it, you go with a dedicated EW plane escorting you or you go low. Even more, some modern Sam's like nasams, patriots, S300/400 don't provide a launch warning as they do (except this patch) in DCS, they have TWS launch modes that could be very dangerous.

So myself at least, I'm approaching SAM defended zones as Ukrainian pilots are doing these days, considering once you are close you go low and scan for launches, and you stay just enough to lob a jdam, or a harm and get the hell out of it. It's been even fun instead of frustrating .

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[key_stroked]

8 hours ago, falcon_120 said:

Obviously is frustrating and I also want it fixed, but on other hand is as real as it can get for certain planes with less advanced EW/RWR equipment.

What I mean is, IRL you just not happily enter a SAM wez waiting for the launch warning to launch a harm and evade, you either stay completely out of it, you go with a dedicated EW plane escorting you or you go low. Even more, some modern Sam's like nasams, patriots, S300/400 don't provide a launch warning as they do (except this patch) in DCS, they have TWS launch modes that could be very dangerous.

So myself at least, I'm approaching SAM defended zones as Ukrainian pilots are doing these days, considering once you are close you go low and scan for launches, and you stay just enough to lob a jdam, or a harm and get the hell out of it. It's been even fun instead of frustrating .

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk
 

Ok. Well DCS isn't real life. RWR needs to work for DCS balance to exist, given what our aircraft modules can and can't do.

I'm sure IRL fifth gen fighters have ways to deal with "silent" missile systems like the S400, but we don't have those in DCS. Can we please not try to rationalize the RWR bug by bringing in real world arguments that have absolutely 0% to do with DCS?

[Eihort]

While I agree SA-10 is supposed to work somewhat like this, where you only get a tracking warning, however even the bugged implementation is working incorrectly as you don't get even that reliably. Not to mention that it's doing this with systems it has no right to.

Conversely, "balance" for the sake of it at the cost of realism doesn't belong in a simulation. This isn't War Chunder.

Acheiving any kind of "balance" is the job of the mission designer, in determining every relevant aspect of the enemy forces from TO&E to skill levels and engagement zones to triggers etc.

This bug isn't adding anything "real" at all. It's a bug and should be squashed. You want to fly with less sophistcated RWR equipment, there are platforms in the game that model this already.

[falcon_120]

Ok. Well DCS isn't real life. RWR needs to work for DCS balance to exist, given what our aircraft modules can and can't do.
I'm sure IRL fifth gen fighters have ways to deal with "silent" missile systems like the S400, but we don't have those in DCS. Can we please not try to rationalize the RWR bug by bringing in real world arguments that have absolutely 0% to do with DCS?

Well dcs is a Simulator, don't see the applicability of balance here. Also don't know why you mention 5th Gen fighter here since we don't have those in DCS.

My comment applies to our 3rd and 4th Gen fighter we have in DCS. And I think is relevant for those people who are currently very frustrated for a temporal bug that ED is fixing as they have stated already, as it happens that this bug could actually be even quite realistic in some cases, is a good time to change frustration for enjoyment. This is not against wanting all bugs (not just this one) squashed asap.

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[falcon_120]

This bug isn't adding anything "real" at all. It's a bug and should be squashed. You want to fly with less sophistcated RWR equipment, there are platforms in the game that model this already.

I understand that in most cases this bug does not add anything real, very probable for modern planes like F16/F18 and in general modern Western/eastern RWR equipment. But on the other hand, in DCS all RWR, from all generations and from all planes basically detects always if you are being launched, ignoring some basic physics such as the Frequency at which they operate or simply because they could have higher sensitivity or malfunctions. Let me give you some example, we have a mirage F1 in DCS that was known to have problems detecting F14/phoenix during the Iran/Irak war, as a solution if a F14 was airborne they basically went home, later this was solved with new RWR for newer F1 versions. In DCS this is irrelevant, you will detect always if you are being detected/launched. This could apply to other old equipment like the SPO10 in the Mi24hind, Mig19 equipment with very restricted frequency bands as to detect everything as they do now.

Take this just as a reflection or just a rambling that had we a more realistic EW sand box, people going cowboy style against SAMs networks would be frustrated for real.

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[MarkyMark]

Can anyone confirm if this is MT or a general bug? I am getting mixed results, seems like still no launch warnings but some rwr contacts in the standard version. Just asking if it's worth switching back to standard threading for the time being

[TAIPAN_]

On 3/19/2023 at 7:08 AM, MarkyMark said:

Can anyone confirm if this is MT or a general bug? I am getting mixed results, seems like still no launch warnings but some rwr contacts in the standard version. Just asking if it's worth switching back to standard threading for the time being

I just ran the single thread version to avoid this bug.

Next minute, SA11's big missile appears in front of my face straight into my engines with no warning (in F-15C).

Bug affects both versions...

[Islari]

Same for M2000C, even with the Magic-DDM version which use to be very effective. I can't count the number of missiles I took in the a** with only few spikes for radar tracking.

I even managed to visually see a launch without any alert. 

 

The only way to stay alive is basically to spam flares and chaff while activating full jamming when receiving a spike.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Islari

[MarkyMark]

15 hours ago, TAIPAN_ said:

I just ran the single thread version to avoid this bug.

Next minute, SA11's big missile appears in front of my face straight into my engines with no warning (in F-15C).

Bug affects both versions...

Thank you, I suspected the same. I played the through the inferno servers yesterday, 1 team kill and 2 missiles in the face with no warning from Sam sites. 4th time was a flanker with R27-ET so that’s my bad lol. Yep, RWR is busted and boy, does it suck. 

[wormdoktor]

Looks like today's patch has not repaired this bug. Just got hit by SA2, no launch warning. ACMI attached, PLATYPUS 1-1, launch at 31:35.

This is freaking ridiculous. Taking a lot of the fun out of DCS since the update.

Tacview-20230323-220813-DCS-Flashpoint_Levant_v1.10_morning.zip.acmi

[Flappie]

Please provide a short DCS track showing your issue.

By the way, there's still an ongoing bug with RWR: if your aircraft is set to Invisible, you won't hear anything coming at you. A fix is in the works.

[FusRoPotato]

I'm noticing all the sudden with the last hotfix that Kh-25MPU's and MP's can no longer lock on to active radar beams. Just been testing them on active SA-6 and Chilkas. I had been using them due to a new bug with the MT update that caused Kh-58's to loft downwards. It appears the Su-25T no longer has any form of usable anti-radiation weaponry.

I post this here because I suspect it might be related to the RWR system and IR beam failures.

Edited March 24, 2023 by FusRoPotato

[TAIPAN_]

22 minutes ago, FusRoPotato said:

I'm noticing all the sudden with the last hotfix that Kh-25MPU's and MP's can no longer lock on to active radar beams. Just been testing them on active SA-6 and Chilkas. I had been using them due to a new bug with the MT update that caused Kh-58's to loft downwards. It appears the Su-25T no longer has any form of usable anti-radiation weaponry.

I post this here because I suspect it might be related to the RWR system and IR beam failures.

 

I had this issue previously with the Sidearm after the MT first patch, when the SA6 lock wasn't being detected properly. I haven't tested Sidearm since the patch though..

On 3/24/2023 at 9:53 AM, Flappie said:

Please provide a short DCS track showing your issue.

By the way, there's still an ongoing bug with RWR: if your aircraft is set to Invisible, you won't hear anything coming at you. A fix is in the works.

Where do we check if aircraft are invisible in the editor? I couldn't see the setting on my client aircraft.

Wondering if this affects MP missions where the frontline moves i.e. spawns are dynamically created by hiding/showing aircraft.. but want to know the setting so I can check in the editor.

[FusRoPotato]

1 minute ago, TAIPAN_ said:

I had this issue previously with the Sidearm after the MT first patch, when the SA6 lock wasn't being detected properly. I haven't tested Sidearm since the patch though..

I'll have to try it as well. On the 25T, the detector pod sees the emitters just fine, but the missile just won't lock and fire on anything.

[Netrolf]

I still experience RWR issues despite the last OB patch.

I flew thrice on Flashpoint Levant EU PvE server with both the F/A-18C and the F-14B.

Each session I've been shot down by a SAM following the same pattern :

1. Approaching the AO at 35 000ft, the RWR alarm tells me there is a SAM looking at me.
2. After a couple a sec, the RWR go silent and no further indication of a threat.
3. I get shot down by a radar guided missile out of the blue without any warning from the RWR.

I checked the Tacviews to be sure and I can confirm, it's coming from a SAM site which isn't in a blind spot, guiding the missile for several minutes while my RWR remains silent.

I may have the track files on my personnal computer. if needed i can provide them later.

[Dentedend10]

Hi,

I am confirming the issue. I was flying the F14 in single player campaign, multithreaded version. Air-to-air radar warnings were working fine. I got shot down by an SA2 though - it launched two missiles, I got the RWR warning when they launched. First missile blew up, RWR signals went out; yet the second missile was still tracking and got me out of the blue.

I can provide track if needed.

[Flappie]

Should now be fixed in OB.

[Honey]

Has this been fixed indeed or not? I flew in a Su-27 in MP on 4YA cold war today and RWR in it signaled about an incoming missile from an X (medium range radar), while I didn't see any launches nearby visually or on F10 map. It requires further testing, maybe I'm wrong...

[TAIPAN_]

1 hour ago, Honey said:

Has this been fixed indeed or not? I flew in a Su-27 in MP on 4YA cold war today and RWR in it signaled about an incoming missile from an X (medium range radar), while I didn't see any launches nearby visually or on F10 map. It requires further testing, maybe I'm wrong...

This bug was the opposite to that, there were actual launches but no RWR warning.

It's quite common to see a warning without launches, especially if it's launching on someone else. Not saying there isn't an issue, but you'd need to isolate/test it some more and probably raise a separate bug for it.

[Honey]

2 часа назад, TAIPAN_ сказал:

This bug was the opposite to that, there were actual launches but no RWR warning.

It's quite common to see a warning without launches, especially if it's launching on someone else. Not saying there isn't an issue, but you'd need to isolate/test it some more and probably raise a separate bug for it.

 

I personally reported this bug. The title of this topic was typed in by me. I know what I'm talking about. They may have fixed it partially, or something broke along the way. Hence, it is related (if the issue is indeed present).

Edited April 14, 2023 by Honey

[Flappie]

The problem looks different. Please open a new thread and attach a short track.

[TAIPAN_]

13 hours ago, Honey said:

 

I personally reported this bug. The title of this topic was typed in by me. I know what I'm talking about. They may have fixed it partially, or something broke along the way. Hence, it is related (if the issue is indeed present).

 

Not saying you don't know what you're talking about, or that you didn't title a topic.. just not THIS topic. 

The title of this topic was by IceyJones, it's probably just a case of responding to the wrong thread?

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