Clarification on LANTIRN roadmap item.

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Rufnax said:

@NineLine I understand technological reasons and reasons from a documentation side but from a customer experience I have to say that loosing main capabilities on a module, like the Lightning TGP for example, after they have been advertised as official features on the modules roadmap (for month), kinda feels wrong from a customer service side and throws a bad light on ED as a developer. Can't help myself but see this as a real bummer and makes me more hesitant to buy further modules in early access in the future.
What do you want to trust on when the developer is not able to provide the advertised features on a product, which in the end you paid money for based  on the details from the  roadmap.

Just my personal opinion on this topic.

You really are not losing much in the way of functionality in the TGP switch. You will still have a very capable TGP, and then the Sniper will follow to add even more. I am sorry you feel it is wrong that we are doing this but this type of stuff will happen in Early Access. We get new information all the time and this may change how we are developing a module, and again you are not losing a feature as its only swapping pods. 

Thanks. 

7 hours ago, LordOrion said:

Model things correctly make me happy too, however I would have preferred a less drastic management of the situation, like:

• Leave current Litening TGP as it is.
• Add the Lantirn pod
• Speed up the Sniper pod development.
• Once the Sniper pod is ready and released, remove the Litening pod.

 

I'm sorry this is not possible. It move the Viper forward replacing the pod and doing the work to finish the LANTIRN is needed. The longer the LITENING is left the hard it will be for people to let go. The Sniper is already going as fast as it can, but still has a decent amount of work to be done. Sorry. 

[Lace]

Just to clarify, we will be getting the Targeting Infra-Red for Night elements of LANTIRN, but not the Low Altitude Navigation part?  i.e. the stand alone TGP?

[Rufnax]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb NineLine:

You really are not losing much in the way of functionality in the TGP switch. You will still have a very capable TGP, and then the Sniper will follow to add even more. I am sorry you feel it is wrong that we are doing this but this type of stuff will happen in Early Access. We get new information all the time and this may change how we are developing a module, and again you are not losing a feature as its only swapping pods. 

Thanks. 

I can't speak for other people but for me "no LSS Function, less zoom capability and a much worse image quality" kinda is "loosing a feature" for me.

And I understand your points of ongoing development with new informations. But I, as a customer, expect ED as a developer to deliver the features on the modules that they advertise and promise. Everything else is false advertising imho. You can't advertise a red ferrari with 350hp and deliver a green lada niva with 16hp because you don't have the necessary informations available to develop the ferrari.

Naturally, you will have to "change" a feature or a function when it is not working as intended or because you recieved "new" informations. I understand this, really. But just "pulling" a (core) feature, like in this case the lightning TGP from the features list completely is not a consumer friendly way of "changing functionalities with new informations". Sorry to say.

This damages my trust in ED as a developer and for your early access modules in general. How am I supposed to buy my next module, for example the AH-64 when I can't be sure that you have the necessary informations / documentations to implement the Fire Control Radar as a core feature. Maybe you are pulling this from the feature List when you get "new" informations"?

I guess ED has made it's point as a developer here and I have stated my opinion as a customer. I personally would love to see ED to overthink their way of "handling new informations" in this case and in future cases like this. Otherwise I am not sure if and how I will buy further modules in early acces development.

Thanks.

[Moonshine]

 

47 minutes ago, NineLine said:

You really are not losing much in the way of functionality in the TGP switch. You will still have a very capable TGP, and then the Sniper will follow to add even more. I am sorry you feel it is wrong that we are doing this but this type of stuff will happen in Early Access. We get new information all the time and this may change how we are developing a module, and again you are not losing a feature as its only swapping pods. 

As stated before, there are no hard feelings about losing TV mode for the benefit of a proper LANTIRN implementation, however at the moment a large portion of map objects on all maps (stationary civilian cars, street lamps, windows of buildings and many other things including placeable static objects in the ME) all light up like a big heat source, especially in comparison to actual running vehicles with hot engines. which to me is a concern if all we can use is IR imagery on a pod. 
i would appreciate if ED would bring those things in order BEFORE implementing the changes to the pod as that will significantly limit the viper, despite having „corrected“ the false lightening implementation (which i do support)

if the ground stuff would show up with correct heat emissions, not many would be mad about the change of the pod as we would not lose any capabilities. 
however with these things in place youre not going to find a truck in a small town only using FLIR, hence really crippling this module to a point where a big part of its core role is pretty much unuseable. I hope you are aware of that

[TobiasA]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Moonshine:

 

As stated before, there are no hard feelings about losing TV mode for the benefit of a proper LANTIRN implementation, however at the moment a large portion of map objects on all maps (stationary civilian cars, street lamps, windows of buildings and many other things including placeable static objects in the ME) all light up like a big heat source, especially in comparison to actual running vehicles with hot engines. which to me is a concern if all we can use is IR imagery on a pod. 
i would appreciate if ED would bring those things in order BEFORE implementing the changes to the pod as that will significantly limit the viper, despite having „corrected“ the false lightening implementation (which i do support)

if the ground stuff would show up with correct heat emissions, not many would be mad about the change of the pod as we would not lose any capabilities. 
however with these things in place youre not going to find a truck in a small town only using FLIR, hence really crippling this module to a point where a big part of its core role is pretty much unuseable. I hope you are aware of that

That is currently an issue. Some units work quite nice in IR mode, some are literally invisible until you switch to TV mode.

And I really hope this will be fixed before the TV mode is gone for quite some time, because that is basically the main reason for me to use TV mode.

[Moonshine]

exactly my point, and please, no "need evidence" comment, there is vast amounts of posts showing these things

Edited March 31, 2023 by Moonshine

[TobiasA]

Maybe we should report each single one, like the SAM launchers being cold while firing to help to sort out the ones being weird.

It got a lot better over time, but it is far from finished.

[Moonshine]

3 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

Maybe we should report each single one, like the SAM launchers being cold while firing to help to sort out the ones being weird.

It got a lot better over time, but it is far from finished.

yeah i wish id get paid to do that

not to speak of all map objects with this issue that are not selectable / placeable from the ME but rather are "built in" as map objects

 

this comment shows it nicely, despite using arguably the pod with the clearest image there is in DCS:
https://forum.dcs.world/topic/322449-fix-it-or-remove-it/?do=findComment&comment=5185516

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Moonshine

[NineLine]

I think this one has been answered so I am going to close as it drifts off topic. Thanks all.