Virpil Apache AH-64 Collective

[corbu1]

Really? That would be so great !!!

[Dziara]

After a few months of use, I can say a few words, so the lever is ideal in terms of functionality in Apache and will work well in other DCS World helicopters and other helicopter flight simulators due to the large number of buttons. On the other hand, I am slightly disappointed with the quality of the materials used to make the grip, especially that it is so flexible and very light, which makes an unpleasant impression. I expected slightly better/stronger materials in such a product. As I am a helicopter fanatic, I accept this state with a hint of slight disappointment.

Oh and indeed a valid point from previous posts the switches are not as good as the VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Grip that I bought 5 years earlier.

[zcaa0g]

For this grip to have better quality materials, it would cost twice as much if not more.  I would be up for a "prime" version of it, but this is niche hardware of niche hardware and Virpil actually wants to make money, so they made the right call.

[mattgw86]

So now that some of you have had these a while, would you recommend the Apache collective? I’m torn between this and the alpha left grip. I fly lots of different helicopters in DCS and MSFS, so having 1:1 accuracy isn’t super important, but if it’s worth the extra, I’d be willing to spend the money. 

[Wostg]

Had it just a little while now. Initial thoughts are

* it does what it says on the tin and that's neat

* definitely recommend the mount extension because it's very long

* it does feel light and plasticy which is a bummer compared to everything else vpc, but appreciate it may have been that or too much cost or possibly weight. As mentioned elsewhere the buttons are a bit light and wiggly too

* I don't need all this buttons - there's a few that I'll never use like the cutout that don't lend themselves intuitively to rebinding, like say the throttle widget on the ka50 grip. Kind of wish they'd been sacrificed for some more generic things, but I accept that you'd lose fidelity which is the whole point. 

So yeah I like it but I'd say maybe check out the others if you're not Apache-dedicated otherwise it's got everything you could ask for. 

 

Edited September 1, 2024 by Wostg

[Scott-S6]

On 9/1/2024 at 5:42 PM, mattgw86 said:

So now that some of you have had these a while, would you recommend the Apache collective? I’m torn between this and the alpha left grip. I fly lots of different helicopters in DCS and MSFS, so having 1:1 accuracy isn’t super important, but if it’s worth the extra, I’d be willing to spend the money. 

I got it for max versatility but the alpha would be a close second.

On 8/30/2024 at 6:53 PM, zcaa0g said:

For this grip to have better quality materials, it would cost twice as much if not more.  I would be up for a "prime" version of it, but this is niche hardware of niche hardware and Virpil actually wants to make money, so they made the right call.

Increasing the glass mix by 10% would absolutely not double the price. I think they are just being overly cautious about mould life.

Edited September 4, 2024 by Scott-S6

[zcaa0g]

3 hours ago, Scott-S6 said:

I got it for max versatility but the alpha would be a close second.

Increasing the glass mix by 10% would absolutely not double the price. I think they are just being overly cautious about mould life.

 

I was not referring to just the handle material density alone, but overall including better switches which is where the price would jump significantly given the number of switches. 

Regardless, I don't think the current material density itself is really a big issue when actually mounted and I personally haven't had any misclicks on the switches.

[Rogue Trooper]

As others have mentioned the buttons/hats are a bit wobbly but always perform well as 4 and 2 way hats, I find the hats are perfectly aligned for thumb use and I never need to think about pushing them in the intended direction.

Press buttons on every hat mostly work well and reliably, here the wobble in all the hats gives me the feeling that the hat may not push directly down... but mostly they do. The exceptions are the pushdown buttons on the small china hats (sight select and FCR mode) and I never use these added pushbuttons as they are not reliable or need Ninja like skills to push perfectly down. Also the B/S - Polarity switch is a bit more wobbly to push directly down... but I use it.

I notice in a lot of old initial Virpil releases, they sometimes had dodgy hats but slowly and quietly improved them over time... hopefully they will do the same with the apache grip.  

I fly all helicopters and with the apache grip I always have the basics set up on the flight grip (search light, RPM adjust, Jettisons, hook release etc...) and the mission grip deals with everything else. The flight grip is chunky to hold, overtime I have started to like its feel allot and tend to pleasure/transit fly using mostly the flight grip.

I fly in VR with enclosed headphones so I do not hear the creaking noise of the plastic grip.

I find the entire assembly does not wobble more than my virpil H-60, the wobble comes from the counterbalance kit but the length of the Apache's grips exaggerate the wobble more than the H-60 does.

Edited September 6, 2024 by Rogue Trooper

[Scott-S6]

On 9/4/2024 at 10:33 PM, zcaa0g said:

I was not referring to just the handle material density alone, but overall including better switches which is where the price would jump significantly given the number of switches. 

Regardless, I don't think the current material density itself is really a big issue when actually mounted and I personally haven't had any misclicks on the switches.

That's fair but you said "materials" rather than "components". 

[zcaa0g]

3 hours ago, Scott-S6 said:

That's fair but you said "materials" rather than "components". 

 

Components consist of matter.

[corbu1]

A lot of things already said by others above. I personally have no problems with the grips materials. 

Yes, I‘d like a prime version of the grip, but as already said I doubt there will be a market huge enough for it. So, I‘m very fine with the AH-64 grip as it is.

I love the two grips concept different functionality (flight grip for the general purpose of flying, mission grip mostly for dealing with the Apache‘s FCR which makes it very easy to handle). The design was made for the functionality of this attack chopper, but it is no problem and easy to setup for other helos as well…you never can have too much buttons and switches on a device, and the apache grip offers lots if buttons and switches.

[Hammer1-1]

Anyone find a work around for the chop and jettison switch covers? Im curious if its possible, really annoyed that these things have to be mapped.

[Wostg]

You mean binding them as open and closed? For the other control panels you assign them their number ie flip it to select btn_234 then select that number and change from the selection window to btn_234_off. Hope that makes sense/what you're after. 

[Rogue Trooper]

15 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Anyone find a work around for the chop and jettison switch covers? Im curious if its possible, really annoyed that these things have to be mapped.

Why don't you use the 2nd Virpil apache grip profile "Jettison, Chop, Stow"?

With this profile, when the chop, jettison or Stow button is pressed and held it outputs 2 separate button presses one after the other: The first button goes on then off quickly and you set this to flip the in game cover, it is then followed by the second button press which stays pressed until you release the joystick button, this one is for pressing the in game chop or jettison button. if you want to close the cover afterwards you simply press the button again quickly so that it only outputs the first quick button press.

Works like a charm in all my choppers with covered buttons. 

[Hammer1-1]

26 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said:

Why don't you use the 2nd Virpil apache grip profile "Jettison, Chop, Stow"?

With this profile, when the chop, jettison or Stow button is pressed and held it outputs 2 separate button presses one after the other: The first button goes on then off quickly and you set this to flip the in game cover, it is then followed by the second button press which stays pressed until you release the joystick button, this one is for pressing the in game chop or jettison button. if you want to close the cover afterwards you simply press the button again quickly so that it only outputs the first quick button press.

Works like a charm in all my choppers with covered buttons. 

Can you point to a tutorial on how to do this? Ive actually been looking for that specifically and havent been able to find any references to it. I see that in the VPC  config tool, but nothing else. Thanks!

edit: I have the hold modifier profile loaded, but not sure what its supposed to do.

Edited September 13, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Rogue Trooper]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:48 PM, Hammer1-1 said:

Can you point to a tutorial on how to do this? Ive actually been looking for that specifically and havent been able to find any references to it. I see that in the VPC  config tool, but nothing else. Thanks!

edit: I have the hold modifier profile loaded, but not sure what its supposed to do.

 

I have not seen a tutorial but then again I have never looked for one.

Basically, Virpil have done the work around for you. if you have the Chop, Jettison and Stow profile loaded then you are ready.

(Edited: below is in DCS)

Once In "adjust controllers" go to the apache collective section, find both chop cover and chop button, they are together. 

Start with the chop button first so that you can see how it works. From the chop button title, track in a straight line across all the columns to the Virpil Apache collective column and then double click the box so that it opens the button assignment box. Now press and HOLD the Virpil chop button, (I do not remember the actual button numbers but lets say Button 27 and 28). On pressing the Virpil chop button you will see button 27 in the assigned button box... keep holding the Virpil chop button and within a short time button 27 will turn to Button 28, now release the virpil Chop button and click ok to close the button assignment box. Then go to the Chop cover, track across to the Virpil Apache collective column and double click the box so that it opens the button assignment box. now you need to capture button 27 so you need to be quick. Press and release the Virpil Chop button quickly so that you only see Button 27 and then click ok.

Test it by pressing and holding the virpil chop button and you should see the button presses go from flipping the Chop cover open to pressing the Chop button. A quick press of the virpil chop button will close the chop cover again.

It is the same for Jettison.

It is also somewhat similar for the searchlight/landing light, except here the double click is for searchlight off and stow (searchlight toggle pulled and held back). A quick flick back of the toggle will switch the light off but not stow the light. 

Edited September 20, 2024 by Rogue Trooper

[Hammer1-1]

Now is this in DCS or the VPC tool?

[Rogue Trooper]

DCS. No need to do anything in Virpil tools, lock and load that is it.

Have you been adjusting the virpil profile?

 

Edited September 13, 2024 by Rogue Trooper

[Hammer1-1]

not adjusting, just searching. So you're setting this as an on/off function for button presses? nvm, think I understand now, Ill give it a shot. Thanks again!

Edited September 13, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Papamiraculi]

Has anyone found a way to make the grip sturdier? I'm thinking about reinforcing the grip somehow so it doesn't bed anymore, maybe by screwing/glueing metal parts on the inside, especially at the "neck" where the lower and upper grip meet. This seems like the most bendy part. I haven't opened the grip yet, so I don't know if this is feasible. Has anyone had a look at the insides?

Using the lower grip is ok, but using the upper grip has some bend which makes fine adjustments harder. I find myself using mostly the lower grip for flying, which is good, but you do need to operate the cursor/FCR from time to time.

 

Edited May 4 by Papamiraculi

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, Papamiraculi said:

Has anyone found a way to make the grip sturdier? I'm thinking about reinforcing the grip somehow so it doesn't bed anymore, maybe by screwing/glueing metal parts on the inside, especially at the "neck" where the lower and upper grip meet. This seems like the most bendy part. I haven't opened the grip yet, so I don't know if this is feasible. Has anyone had a look at the insides?

Using the lower grip is ok, but using the upper grip has some bend which makes fine adjustments harder. I find myself using mostly the lower grip for flying, which is good, but you do need to operate the cursor/FCR from time to time.

 

what do you mean, the collective dropping down over an extended period of time? because the newer ones come with a counterbalance spring that you can put tension on to prevent that. As for the forward grip being a little long in length, the only other option is to scootch the whole thing back a few inches.

[Papamiraculi]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Hammer1-1:

what do you mean, the collective dropping down over an extended period of time? because the newer ones come with a counterbalance spring that you can put tension on to prevent that. As for the forward grip being a little long in length, the only other option is to scootch the whole thing back a few inches.

No, I'm talking about the grip itself. The plastic bends a little. 

I got the counterbalance kit and installed a damper. That feels really great, apart from the bend when using the upper grip. It's not unusable. Far from it. But a bit annoying.

[Hammer1-1]

Ok I got you...and now that you say something, that seems like a great idea because Ive never noticed that bend before. It does seem kind of flimsy...

there are plenty of ways to make it less flimsy, and the only ones I can think of involve styrofoam or other kind of filler material like click-bond.

[Papamiraculi]

Idk if styrofoam is enough.

There isn't much room, the "neck" part of the grip is really narrow. I wish they had at least partly used metal.

Seems I need to open the grips to see how it looks inside. I was just wondering if anybody had already tried that.

[Hammer1-1]

On 5/4/2025 at 4:00 PM, Papamiraculi said:

Idk if styrofoam is enough.

There isn't much room, the "neck" part of the grip is really narrow. I wish they had at least partly used metal.

Seems I need to open the grips to see how it looks inside. I was just wondering if anybody had already tried that.

click bond is actually a really hard substance that hardens within like 5 minutes. Its fairly durable as you can take a hammer to it and itll barely scratch. probably a little bit on the expensive side though...