DCS tested with the Pimax Crystal

[Air Joker]

Pimax Crystal - What is the software like?

Edited May 12, 2023 by Air Joker

[winghunter]

At 10:10 theres "Smart Smoothing" which sounds like MR from the description, aka frame interpolation

[WipeUout]

13 hours ago, winghunter said:

At 10:10 theres "Smart Smoothing" which sounds like MR from the description, aka frame interpolation

It is the Pimax version of reprojection.  It will kick in only if your FPS drops below your HMD's refresh rate.

[Willie Nelson]

6 hours ago, WipeUout said:

It is the Pimax version of reprojection.  It will kick in only if your FPS drops below your HMD's refresh rate.

"If" your FPS drops below you HMD's refresh rate, sheesh man, you rockin a 7090!

[WipeUout]

11 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

"If" your FPS drops below you HMD's refresh rate, sheesh man, you rockin a 7090!

Ok, a little more explanation:  Say your HMD is set at 90hz, this means that in order to have a smooth video, you need your system to pump more than 90 frames per seconds.  If your system can't keep up and your FPS drops below 90, then you get stutters.  MR or reprojection or smart smoothing, whatever it is called by your HMD maker, will insert frames to ensure the FPS never droppes below 90 using different techniques to predict how the next frame should look like if dropped because to system can't keep up.

If you are a time traveler and have a 7090, then you absolutely don't need MR anyway.   

[ackattacker]

19 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

"If" your FPS drops below you HMD's refresh rate, sheesh man, you rockin a 7090!

The Crystal has about the same number of total pixels as an 8kx. With a 4080/4090 and the MT build it is very possible to achieve a steady 90fps with the 8kx and optimized settings. 60fps is easy even with most everything cranked up. 

[Willie Nelson]

21 hours ago, WipeUout said:

Ok, a little more explanation:  Say your HMD is set at 90hz, this means that in order to have a smooth video, you need your system to pump more than 90 frames per seconds.  If your system can't keep up and your FPS drops below 90, then you get stutters.  MR or reprojection or smart smoothing, whatever it is called by your HMD maker, will insert frames to ensure the FPS never droppes below 90 using different techniques to predict how the next frame should look like if dropped because to system can't keep up.

If you are a time traveler and have a 7090, then you absolutely don't need MR anyway.   

Ok so you're talking about a solid 45 fps with Aero's MR on. I was under the understanding that you were getting 90fps with it off. All good, how is the MR in the Aero? I know it wasn't that long ago that it was introduced.

I have't ruled out the Aero but I'm interested to see how the first impressions of this Crystal are as it looks pretty good to me.

[WipeUout]

17 hours ago, ackattacker said:

The Crystal has about the same number of total pixels as an 8kx. With a 4080/4090 and the MT build it is very possible to achieve a steady 90fps with the 8kx and optimized settings. 60fps is easy even with most everything cranked up. 

Agree, same workload for both HMD.  90 FPS is achievable with the 8kX but you have to compromise on MSAA which is for me not a big problem with the resolution.  Agree about the 60hz also but not everyone can sim at that refresh rate, I personaly can but not for prolong hours.  The 60hz is also not available to all models of 8KX, only the first version has it.

I also expect the crystal to perform better given the dynamic foveated rendering.  My only worry is the trade off of FOV for clarity, is it going to be acceptable?  I find that large FOV is such a critical feature to immersion.  We'll see.

[Gorn557]

I've been very frustrated with the lack of showing any settings for all these YouTubers showing the Crystal. As far as I'm concerned any statements about performance are worthless in the absence of:

1) DCS settings

2) Whether it's the multithreaded version 

3) Hardware specs

 

And yet no one so far that I've seen has shown all three of these things. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Gorn557

[dburne]

5 hours ago, Gorn557 said:

I've been very frustrated with the lack of showing any settings for all these YouTubers showing the Crystal. As far as I'm concerned any statements are performance are worthless in the absence of:

1) DCS settings

2) Whether it's the multithreaded version 

3) Hardware specs

 

And yet no one so far that I've seen has shown all three of these things. 

 

Going to have to wait for reports from real world users rather than these so called youtube reviewers. The way Pimax drips these things out it may be a while.

[BMGZ06]

The paid "Youtube Reviewers" take on anything...

 

[Merlin_VFA34]

Hi,

I got my Crystal on saturday but haven´t had much time playing DCS. The headset did not come with glas lenses (only one set of plastic lenses) but the supplier said they would be send later. Till now I was using a G2 and the picture is compared to the G2 a little bit sharper, but from edge to edge and not only in the middle. The colors are way better than the G2. I found it way easier to spot and track planes in the distance. I allways had the problem that as soon as a plane changed from dot to a rendered object I lost contact or could barley see it. This is way better on the Crystal.

Performance:

I have only tested openxr with my default G2 dcs settings and the Crystal default resolution result in 25 fps with a 4090. Changing the resolution in openxr to something like the 100% resolution of the G2 and turning on turbo mode in openxr will get me 90 fps above the clouds. But as soon as this drops below 90fps I get an effect like you get without vsync but vertical not horizontal. At the moment I have no Idea how to get rid of it. I haven´t tested what happens if I change the number of "pre rendered frames" in the nvidia settings. Maybe the other pimax users have an idea.

Greetings

Merlin

[winghunter]

Maybe these settings help

 

[dburne]

Lol that guy working it hard for Pimax!

[Callsign.Vega]

11 hours ago, dburne said:

Lol that guy working it hard for Pimax!

$$$

[BazzaLB]

12 hours ago, dburne said:

Lol that guy working it hard for Pimax!

He has those referral codes to peddle don't forget.

He said in the comments of one of his videos that he tried the Quest Pro but didnt like it. I guess they wouldnt give him any referral codes.

Edited June 7, 2023 by BazzaLB

[Merlin_VFA34]

OK I did some more testing. I find it hard to get a smooth head movement. The settings from this youtube guy may work if you are able to get constant 90 frames but everyone who has ever played knows that that is impossible in dcs. I got the best result if I disable this stupid Turbo Mode. As soon as the framerate drops below 90 stutters are awfull, even worse than below 45 frames in the g2. I get best result if I limit the framerate to 46 fps and force motion repojection. At the moment I would say... Realy great picture but a headset ist more then just screens.

[mbucchia]

6 hours ago, Merlin_VFA34 said:

I got the best result if I disable this stupid Turbo Mode

Any reason for this unwarranted adjective?

You're more than encouraged to participate to the development of the tool. It's open source. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

[Merlin_VFA34]

16 hours ago, mbucchia said:

Any reason for this unwarranted adjective?

You're more than encouraged to participate to the development of the tool. It's open source. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

sorry you are right. The turbo mode is not stupid. The thing is that you can not use it for DCS because it is impossible to get stable 90 fps. And as soon as the framerate drops below 90 it feels worse than below 45 frames in the G2. If the head movement isn´t fluent I get sick very fast. At the moment I have no idea why things are so different between wmr and a pimax headset. An other thing is that if you move the headset a little bit up and down you bend the picture up and down... don´t know how descripe the effect. Maybe that changes with glas lenses but who knows

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Merlin_VFA34 said:

sorry you are right. The turbo mode is not stupid. The thing is that you can not use it for DCS because it is impossible to get stable 90 fps. And as soon as the framerate drops below 90 it feels worse than below 45 frames in the G2. If the head movement isn´t fluent I get sick very fast. At the moment I have no idea why things are so different between wmr and a pimax headset. An other thing is that if you move the headset a little bit up and down you bend the picture up and down... don´t know how descripe the effect. Maybe that changes with glas lenses but who knows

 

Sounds more like a headset issue than a software one.

I run my Aero in Turbo mode with good results.

[Merlin_VFA34]

6 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Sounds more like a headset issue than a software one.

 

you mean the picture that bends up and down?

6 hours ago, dburne said:

I run my Aero in Turbo mode with good results.

Will your fps stay at 90 or is below 90 just playable for you? Can I get your openxr settings?

[dburne]

5 hours ago, Merlin_VFA34 said:

you mean the picture that bends up and down?

Will your fps stay at 90 or is below 90 just playable for you? Can I get your openxr settings?

1: Yes.

2: I do not run the openxr toolkit as I am using the Dynamic Foveated Rendering with eye tracking with my Aero. Turbo Mode is also an option with the wrapper supplied for the Aero by Mbucchia. I run with my fps locked to 45 fps (vsync locked in Varjo Base).

[winghunter]

TLDW
* Its the best headset from Pimax
* Quite heavy - 1.2 kg
* Head straps break
* Some units ship with plastic lenses, to be replaced later
* Exchangeable lens system seems like a gimmick
* People receive different versions of the cable / copper vs fiber optic
* Resolution and brightness are really good
* Local dimming is difficult to get working, and causes some blooming
* No games seem to be running above 90Hz currently, despite showing 120Hz
* Controller tracking is ok, not great
* Glass lenses have some chromatic aberration
* Headset may work best for stationary simulators, but not for motion based games due to weight and tracking
 

Edited June 10, 2023 by winghunter

[dburne]

Sounds like another typical Pimax release. Seems they will never learn.

[WipeUout]

Another Pimax hater, who plays job simulator... not the type of reviewer with flight sim credibility.