DCS tested with the Pimax Crystal

[Callsign.Vega]

Crystal has to run a MASSSSSIIIVVEEE inverse distortion compensation resolution of 3232x3824 per eye, or over 12 megapixels. Meaning your PC has to drive over 24 megapixels at 90 FPS or higher to get that clarity. Basically means even with an overclocked 4090 you have to run your games on potato graphics.

This is the biggest problem I'm running into, is always having to play at 45 FPS with motion interpilation which sucks.

[Willie Nelson]

53 minutes ago, Callsign.Vega said:

Crystal has to run a MASSSSSIIIVVEEE inverse distortion compensation resolution of 3232x3824 per eye, or over 12 megapixels. Meaning your PC has to drive over 24 megapixels at 90 FPS or higher to get that clarity. Basically means even with an overclocked 4090 you have to run your games on potato graphics.

This is the biggest problem I'm running into, is always having to play at 45 FPS with motion interpilation which sucks.

That’s true but by all accounts you don’t need to compensate so much. I don’t have any data on this as I do not yet have one but in most cases of aspheric lenses they don’t appear to need as much compensation as a fresnel lens. That’s part of why the Varjo by all accounts can have a higher resultion than say a Reverb Aero but if you sample to the same resolution the Varjo still looks waaaay better. That’s the theory anyway. 

[WipeUout]

3 hours ago, Callsign.Vega said:

Crystal has to run a MASSSSSIIIVVEEE inverse distortion compensation resolution of 3232x3824 per eye, or over 12 megapixels. Meaning your PC has to drive over 24 megapixels at 90 FPS or higher to get that clarity. Basically means even with an overclocked 4090 you have to run your games on potato graphics.

As I undertand it, distortion correction is not as demanding as generating a 3d image, but rather closer to a re-sampling operation.

The Crystal has the same amount of pixel per eye than the 8kX: 8,294,400 pixels per eye.

I think you are starving your HMD with the Titan RTX which has 57% of a 4080's performance according to Passmark charts. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by WipeUout
Typo

[Callsign.Vega]

Titan what? I have a 4090 running 3000 MHz. 

[WipeUout]

It's in your signature bloc:

GPU: TITAN RTX - 2175 MHz, liquid cooled

CPU: 9900K - 5.4 GHz, liquid cooled / MB: ASUS Maximus XI Gene

RAM: G.Skill 32GB 4000 MHz Samsung B-Die

SSD: Intel Optane 905P - 960GB

 

[Callsign.Vega]

Oh god that's ancient haha. I think I have sigs turned off. 

[Nahemoth]

I have just received the payment email (preordered on April) but I have plenty of questions... what about FOV and IPD? I own a 8kx, the IPD has been a bit tricky, but the FOV is fantastic... any advice? 

Thanks

[Callsign.Vega]

Not sure what your IPD question is. It works fine, although manually at the moment with a button. Auto IPD in a future update.

FOV is quite disappointing. It's about Valve Index size, which isn't anything to write home about. I'm going to give a full synopsis later today after I play a few more games. 

[Nahemoth]

My IPD is low (57), that's why I'm asking.

Concerning the FOV, I'm afraid of that... I love large FOV. I read there some new lenses for increasing the FOV, but probably the clarity will decrease, at the end it's a trade off....

[Callsign.Vega]

Ok I just put on the Crystal and moved the IPD to its lowest setting. It's 58mm. That will work with your 57mm IPD. 

As for FOV yes, that was a big disappointment the first time I put the Crystal on. You're not going to have anywhere near the 8kX field of view, even with the new lenses, but then again the 8kX has a ton of issues in itself and isn't that clear. The central vision clarity of the Crystal is a sight to behold... and once the foveated rendering is sorted, will make for a MUCH better headset. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Callsign.Vega

[lax22]

deleted

Edited June 26, 2023 by lax22

[ackattacker]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:20 PM, Callsign.Vega said:

Crystal has to run a MASSSSSIIIVVEEE inverse distortion compensation resolution of 3232x3824 per eye, or over 12 megapixels. Meaning your PC has to drive over 24 megapixels at 90 FPS or higher to get that clarity. Basically means even with an overclocked 4090 you have to run your games on potato graphics.

This is the biggest problem I'm running into, is always having to play at 45 FPS with motion interpilation which sucks.

Varjo Aero has a steam VR resolution of 4148x3556 per eye, 14.7 megapixels... And folks have been happily running the Varjo for 2 years with DCS on 30 series cards... by turning the resolution down a bit from the highest setting. Visual impact is minimal.  Although eye tracking provided a have cake and eat it boost. I suspect the Crystal is in the same boat.

[winghunter]

Did someone get it to work with DCS?

 

 

[mbucchia]

The software to do DFR in DCS with OpenXR isn't released publicly, and it won't be until mid-July at least. 

There's only Pimax beta testers with the eye tracking Pimax Client.

There's only 2 PimaxXR beta testers with the DFR tool for DCS.

Edited June 28, 2023 by mbucchia

[winghunter]

 

[Txbitt]

Hey guys, been a lurker here for quite a while, but I figured I would give my thoughts on the Pimax Crystal from an average Joe. I have been simming and gaming a long time, not a technical expert by any means, but I get by pretty well.  Anyhow, I just got my Crystal up and running. I was using the Pimax 8kx, probably like a lot of new Crystal buyers so I am familiar with a lot of the Pimax issues.

My initial thought when first using the headset in DCS was how tiny the FOV is compared to the 8KX. I knew it was going to be smaller, but I was not expecting it to be this small. This was very disappointing! It almost felt claustrophobic. The second thought was, Wow! the clarity and color is beautiful, really impressive! As I continued playing I then started realizing how poor my FPS was. I am using OpenXR and running on a RTX 4080. I was using the same settings I had with the 8KX in Steam VR. Hopefully performance will improve when eye tracking and foveated rendering are up and running. I will be experimenting with settings in the mean time to find the sweet spot between performance and visual quality.

 I thought the setup was pretty easy(for Pimax) and I was up and running in about 1/2 an hour after unboxing. One positive is the sound, once I got it working (another issue I struggle with on my system with Pimax) it is very good! My 8KX did not have DMAS, big improvement! The quality of the unit seems pretty good, I have not tried the included hand controllers yet, but they seem kind of small and cheap. Another nice thing is that there's no longer a need for base stations. I.jave them.on stands and they kind of clutter up my computer room. The comfort of the unit is about the same as the 8KX, not great, but ok. Sure would be nice to have a fan in these things somewhere.

Overall, I am kind of on the fence right now, I love the color and clarity, it really is gorgeous, but I hate the FOV and the performance. Hopefully the performance improves, but the FOV is my main deterrent to really liking this unit. Maybe the 12KX, if it ever comes will be the answer. Unfortunately, I think it will take a beastly system to run based on the Crystal's performance running on a fairly high end system. Anyway, hope that was informative, thanks for the read.

 

[NAM]

As current 8kx owner, this is the most informative review. My concern for crystal is the small FOV. This review tip the balance for me. I will cancel the pre-ordered and wait for the 12kx.

[WipeUout]

2 hours ago, NAM said:

As current 8kx owner, this is the most informative review. My concern for crystal is the small FOV. This review tip the balance for me. I will cancel the pre-ordered and wait for the 12kx.

Same here, I am convinced now that it is a transitional product, sticking with my 8kX.  Thanks @Txbitt for the review!

 

[winghunter]

Are the 8KX distortion issues in the peripheral vision fixed ?

I would also prefer FOV over resolution but i cant stand the distortions

Edited July 6, 2023 by winghunter

[Willie Nelson]

10 hours ago, Txbitt said:

Hey guys, been a lurker here for quite a while, but I figured I would give my thoughts on the Pimax Crystal from an average Joe. I have been simming and gaming a long time, not a technical expert by any means, but I get by pretty well.  Anyhow, I just got my Crystal up and running. I was using the Pimax 8kx, probably like a lot of new Crystal buyers so I am familiar with a lot of the Pimax issues.

My initial thought when first using the headset in DCS was how tiny the FOV is compared to the 8KX. I knew it was going to be smaller, but I was not expecting it to be this small. This was very disappointing! It almost felt claustrophobic. The second thought was, Wow! the clarity and color is beautiful, really impressive! As I continued playing I then started realizing how poor my FPS was. I am using OpenXR and running on a RTX 4080. I was using the same settings I had with the 8KX in Steam VR. Hopefully performance will improve when eye tracking and foveated rendering are up and running. I will be experimenting with settings in the mean time to find the sweet spot between performance and visual quality.

 I thought the setup was pretty easy(for Pimax) and I was up and running in about 1/2 an hour after unboxing. One positive is the sound, once I got it working (another issue I struggle with on my system with Pimax) it is very good! My 8KX did not have DMAS, big improvement! The quality of the unit seems pretty good, I have not tried the included hand controllers yet, but they seem kind of small and cheap. Another nice thing is that there's no longer a need for base stations. I.jave them.on stands and they kind of clutter up my computer room. The comfort of the unit is about the same as the 8KX, not great, but ok. Sure would be nice to have a fan in these things somewhere.

Overall, I am kind of on the fence right now, I love the color and clarity, it really is gorgeous, but I hate the FOV and the performance. Hopefully the performance improves, but the FOV is my main deterrent to really liking this unit. Maybe the 12KX, if it ever comes will be the answer. Unfortunately, I think it will take a beastly system to run based on the Crystal's performance running on a fairly high end system. Anyway, hope that was informative, thanks for the read.

 

Smart smoothing is what I needed here in my view and until that or some other form of frame interpolation is available, even a 4090 is going to make the Crystal look like a poor performer. 

[lax22]

5 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

Smart smoothing is what I needed here in my view and until that or some other form of frame interpolation is available, even a 4090 is going to make the Crystal look like a poor performer. 

Does OpenXR motion smoothing not work on the Crystal?

[Willie Nelson]

11 minutes ago, lax22 said:

Does OpenXR motion smoothing not work on the Crystal?

Not as yet, as I understand, Pimax has the option but it is not yet functioning. This is not uncommon for new HMD's Varjo Aero was the same, it didn't work for some time. I believe Mbuccia is working in conjuction with Pimax to get it up and running but in some instances his hands are tied untill certain functions are made available to him at the Pimax end.

Until then, I am waiting. 

[Callsign.Vega]

Returned the Crystal and await the Bigscreen Beyond. But DCS external world looks pretty terrible in VR even with the Crystal and top settings, so going back to flat screen with a 65" 4K OLED and GrassMonkey. Not to mention the poor FOV in VR. The 3D feeling of being "in the cockpit" isn't worth all the negatives for me versus the comfort and clarity of 2D.  

Having to look down in the cockpit so much, the Crystal was just a neck killer. And I already have a worn out neck after a career as a Army helicopter pilot. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Callsign.Vega

[mbucchia]

8 hours ago, lax22 said:

Does OpenXR motion smoothing not work on the Crystal?

AFAICT it works if you are using SteamVR OpenXR. 

It can work with PimaxXR but for now you need to use "Compulsive Smoothing" aka lock the framerate. There are otherwise issues with dynamic framerate scaling.

So it's usable IMO. If I remember correctly, this is also how Varjo motion smoothing works (like you can only do motion smoothing with v-sync enabled to half or lower).

[Nahemoth]

Having an 8kx, I will receive the Crystal in less than 2 weeks, I'm curious about how small or large is the FOV, depending on the review, it is very small, or it is enough... so relative.

But in my case, my IPD is too low, and setting up the 8kx was terrible, the image is always blurred... so let´s see with the new glasses.