reported Multithreading: Flipping between F10 and F1 Causing intense, and lasting screen-tearing in VR

[seven10]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:12 PM, Flappie said:

@seven10Can you please share your NVCP "Image scaling" global setting? It's not shown in your screenshot (only says "Use global setting").

 

Sure, here you go

On 10/7/2023 at 1:19 AM, xmudroller said:

Did you guys check your Virtual memory, I put at least 16.000gb on my, And it runs very smooth i also used smart game booster.

Yep, I've tried 32GB, 64GB, and system managed all with no change to this issue. Unfortunately the only thing that seems to work for making things run smooth between multiple F10 to F1 switches is to use the non-MT exe.

[xmudroller]

Remember the unwanted processes' software, it's called smart game booster it will help disable processes running in the background

[Gryzor]

43 minutes ago, xmudroller said:

Remember the unwanted processes' software, it's called smart game booster it will help disable processes running in the background

When you say "the unwanted processes" to what app do you refer exactly?

[seven10]

Well, unfortunately it happened using the standard executable as well. Though the difference is that it only showed up after an hour of flying on a server and multiple F10 to F1 switches. It also seemed to go away for a little bit then come back whereas in MT once it starts to desync or whatever it never stops without a restart of DCS. Track from tonight is too large to upload, so I can dump it somewhere if needed.

dcs.log

[prianik]

@BIGNEWYThere are a lot of tracks above, will they help identify the problem?

[BIGNEWY]

49 minutes ago, prianik said:

@BIGNEWYThere are a lot of tracks above, will they help identify the problem?

I will ask the team again. 

thank you

[seven10]

Here's a link to the track from last night: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17Y152xiyhD-n0qmTYPXY31tpVZFNJuse/view?usp=sharing

As well as two from the last time I used MT and encountered the issue:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qgl--xq1zZs34bveDIZJLCYWRrSDPHMN/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cy-PbsTbKVVFF_0f3mPlivTq8enyrBv2/view?usp=sharing

Edited October 10, 2023 by seven10
Forgot to include MT tracks

[tempusmurphy]

Don’t know if this will help anyone, but was flying over the Sinai map and checked the map, started getting the screen tearing in the right eye of my quest 2, then had to take off the headset (the postman having the audacity to try and deliver something whilst I was flying ) but when I came back and put the headset back on it was back to usual smoothness and no tearing … haven’t had s chance to try replicating this. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by tempusmurphy

[prianik]

@BIGNEWYWill this problem be fixed in tomorrow's update? It is critical and a lot of players are experiencing problems. We all want to play but we can't. The number of logs, reports and other files that could help you did their job? Has your team figured out the cause of the problem? Thank you very much in advance

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, prianik said:

@BIGNEWYWill this problem be fixed in tomorrow's update? It is critical and a lot of players are experiencing problems. We all want to play but we can't. The number of logs, reports and other files that could help you did their job? Has your team figured out the cause of the problem? Thank you very much in advance

I am unsure, as team members have had trouble reproducing. It could be some tweaks in 2.9 have helped, only way to see is with your feedback once 2.9 is live. 

thank you

[BIGNEWY]

Do any of you have AMD's ReLive or NVIDIA shadow play active? 

and if so does disabling it make a difference?

[Bigskill]

43 minuti fa, BIGNEWY ha scritto:

Do any of you have AMD's ReLive or NVIDIA shadow play active? 

and if so does disabling it make a difference?

I do Play with Shadowplay, and yes it drain a bit of fps. In a busy MP scenario need to be disabled on my end at least. Enigma, Greyflag, Growling servers with 20+ ppl on.

[niru27]

On 10/7/2023 at 2:37 AM, Flappie said:

@niru27 Your "Saved Games" folder is stored on a HDD. You should definitely move it to another, faster drive. Also, your system drive is almost full (17 GB left when your DxDiag log was made).

However, the F10>F1 freeze problem does not seem to be caused by a slow drive, since @seven10 stored his Saved Games folder, his Temp folder and his core DCS files on a NVMe drive.

A friend of mine is affected. I've tried to reproduce this issue on a server we were playing on, but my PC is fine (even though I'm affected by the long texture loading time symptom in MP). I'll try to mimic the NVCP + DCS settings above and see if it makes any difference.

I'm so sorry for the delay in replying. Yes, my Saved Games and temp folders are indeed on HDD. Will move the Saved Games folder to SSD if it helps DCS.

Since it's happening with NVMe drives as well, I will try clearing my system drive and see if that makes any difference

 

9 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Do any of you have AMD's ReLive or NVIDIA shadow play active? 

and if so does disabling it make a difference?

I don't even have NVIDIA Experience installed, just the driver.

Also there seems to be 2 different issues being described on this thread:

1. For me using monitor, the fps drop occurs when I leave F1 view, for e.g. to view F10 map. Becomes normal if I press F1
2. For others in VR, the fps drop occurs not when they go to F10 map, but when they press F1 to return

[seven10]

13 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Do any of you have AMD's ReLive or NVIDIA shadow play active? 

and if so does disabling it make a difference?

No, I do not run with shadow play active.

[niru27]

Issue still exists on 2.9 MT. Guess the only thing to do is give up all views other than F1

[xmudroller]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:07 PM, Flappie said:

@niru27 Your "Saved Games" folder is stored on a HDD. You should definitely move it to another, faster drive. Also, your system drive is almost full (17 GB left when your DxDiag log was made).

However, the F10>F1 freeze problem does not seem to be caused by a slow drive, since @seven10 stored his Saved Games folder, his Temp folder and his core DCS files on a NVMe drive.

A friend of mine is affected. I've tried to reproduce this issue on a server we were playing on, but my PC is fine (even though I'm affected by the long texture loading time symptom in MP). I'll try to mimic the NVCP + DCS settings above and see if it makes any difference.

On pimax 5k super, I increase the Hrz to 180. And even the fps went up a little bit.

[desolunatic]

On 10/18/2023 at 3:24 PM, BIGNEWY said:

I am unsure, as team members have had trouble reproducing. It could be some tweaks in 2.9 have helped, only way to see is with your feedback once 2.9 is live. 

thank you

Hmm, anyone in the team has a Quest and a gpu with 8 or 10 gigs of VRAM? It should be very easy to reproduce on any of the Grayflag servers with such hardware.

If not I can even let you guys remote connect to my PC and I can reproduce it 99% of time

Edited October 22, 2023 by desolunatic

[desolunatic]

So, it turns out that if you alt-tab very quickly out of DCS when it is loading new assets in, you will not run out of VRAM in VR even on a 10 GB card.

I made a macro for my keyboard that quickly alt tabs out of the game whenever I press F1, F2 and F10 and it appears to be enough to prevent the VRAM related issues that come with browsing different F2 views and going into F10 map (especially in multiplayer or in very complex missions).

My VRAM usage with medium / high textures and an approx 3000x3000 per eye headset resolution didn't go above 6 GB where without this alt tabbing I needed to be using medium / low textures for the game to be playable for any reasonable amount of time.

I recorded a video and linked it here for partypoopers saying "pics or didnt happen"

It is super weird but oh well.

 

 

[winghunter]

1 hour ago, desolunatic said:

I recorded a video and linked it here for partypoopers saying "pics or didnt happen"

Nice work !

[BIGNEWY]

2 hours ago, desolunatic said:

So, it turns out that if you alt-tab very quickly out of DCS when it is loading new assets in, you will not run out of VRAM in VR even on a 10 GB card.

I made a macro for my keyboard that quickly alt tabs out of the game whenever I press F1, F2 and F10 and it appears to be enough to prevent the VRAM related issues that come with browsing different F2 views and going into F10 map (especially in multiplayer or in very complex missions).

My VRAM usage with medium / high textures and an approx 3000x3000 per eye headset resolution didn't go above 6 GB where without this alt tabbing I needed to be using medium / low textures for the game to be playable for any reasonable amount of time.

I recorded a video and linked it here for partypoopers saying "pics or didnt happen"

It is super weird but oh well.

 

 

Shared the video with the team, 

thanks

[Recluse]

I have found that when I get VRAM full and frame rates decrease I CAN sometimes regain it after an ALT TAB, but not always. Have to try it Pre-Emptively as described.  Thanks for the tip.

[seven10]

The cable in my extension and base unfortunately died just pre-2.9 release, so I haven't been able to retest and see how things are since the update. Once the replacement comes in and I'm back from Japan I'll be able to update as well.

[edmuss]

20 hours ago, Recluse said:

I have found that when I get VRAM full and frame rates decrease I CAN sometimes regain it after an ALT TAB, but not always. Have to try it Pre-Emptively as described.  Thanks for the tip.

I've found that based on the technique outlined by @desolunatic above you can reliable solve a VRAM overflow, turn on the expanded performance metrics and keep an eye on the VRAM usage/allocation numbers.

Switch to F10 map, alt tab out and wait for the VRAM usage to drop (mine goes down to around 2.5gb) and FPS to settle, alt tab back in and it should stay stable, then F1 to cockpit and it should repopulate the VRAM having flushed it properly.  Not an automatic thing but only takes about 3-4 seconds to do

[Recluse]

6 hours ago, edmuss said:

I've found that based on the technique outlined by @desolunatic above you can reliable solve a VRAM overflow, turn on the expanded performance metrics and keep an eye on the VRAM usage/allocation numbers.

Switch to F10 map, alt tab out and wait for the VRAM usage to drop (mine goes down to around 2.5gb) and FPS to settle, alt tab back in and it should stay stable, then F1 to cockpit and it should repopulate the VRAM having flushed it properly.  Not an automatic thing but only takes about 3-4 seconds to do

I use OpenXR Toolkit overlay which also gives me a VRAM usage value, so I use that. Oddly enough, sometimes I am pushing 100% (only 6 GB on my 3070 ) but frames remain steady and performance is smooth. Alternatively, sometimes VRAM usage looks OK but the frames plummet, which can also (sometimes) be remedied with an ALT-TAB.

[edmuss]

Does the same thing, not everyone delves into the depths of the menus though!

Should be 8Gb on a 3070

This is also a good observation, the overflow doesn't happen when usage approaches 100%, I have seen it happen at 7GB but also been flying perfectly smoothly at 9gb....

It isn't just a VRAM capacity thing, something else is playing it's part to cause the problems.