reported Multithreading: Flipping between F10 and F1 Causing intense, and lasting screen-tearing in VR

[Magic Zach]

As in the title, flipping between F10 and F1 seems to have a % chance of starting long-lasting stutters and screen-tearing in VR.  Usually happens after the 5th or 6th time looking at the map while on a mission.  This is actually so bad that it immediately stops my gameplay, I cannot continue with it.  See attached video.  This bug never appeared before multithreading was introduced.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/865742930064965662/1100018920297070692/20230424_200758.mp4

Oculus Quest 2
3070ti
M.2 SSD for DCS
32GB memory
X570 Gaming+
Ryzen 7 5800X3D

[BIGNEWY]

please include your dcs and dxdiag it may have more clues 

also let us know your vsync settings and the refresh rate of all monitor's / VR headset Hz 

[Devil 505]

4 hours ago, Magic Zach said:

As in the title, flipping between F10 and F1 seems to have a % chance of starting long-lasting stutters and screen-tearing in VR

 

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

please include your dcs and dxdiag it may have more clues 

also let us know your vsync settings and the refresh rate of all monitor's / VR headset Hz 

I have noticed the same thing. Going to F10 map since the Normandy 2.0 came out has caused stuttering on the F10 view.  As soon as I go back to F1 (cockpit view) no issues. 

PIMAX 8K, Monitor refresh rate is 60Hz, 75Hz per eye for the PIMAX.

[Magic Zach]

17 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

please include your dcs and dxdiag it may have more clues 

also let us know your vsync settings and the refresh rate of all monitor's / VR headset Hz 

Vsync is turned off by I have Gsync enabled on my monitor.  However the screen tearing isn't visible on my monitor, though it is visible in VR.  I have my refresh rate set to 90Hz I believe for VR.

Idk what dxdiag is but I'm on the latest DCS version

There's also a thread on the DCS Discord https://discord.com/channels/542985647502393346/1100137688654413864

[dutchili]

I don't need f10 for this to happen.

This issue occurs in missions with a lot of visuals, like rain, custom liveries or lots of units.

The issue for much worse since the patch before the hotfix .

We have seen this before last year.

Vsynch is off for me too. Dcs log doesn't show it 

Alt-tab for about 10 seconds solves it. But it usually comes back quickly.

 

Perhaps related: taking off the headset results in permanent black screen in vr, non recoverable.

[BIGNEWY]

I have tried to reproduce on my system with the G2, I am not seeing the tearing issue. 

I have asked the team

thanks 

[Magic Zach]

18 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have tried to reproduce on my system with the G2, I am not seeing the tearing issue. 

I have asked the team

thanks 

I can try to get you a track of it happening when I next fly

[BIGNEWY]

sure always good to get a track, please also attach your dcs log from the same session 

[Magic Zach]

I finally caught the F10 performance bug in a short track, and not only that but was able to reproduce the issue in flatscreen mode!
Here's the track file, and my two video perspectives.  One taken in VR during the actual incident, and the other being my successful reproduction of the issue, with the FPS counter open.
Here's a link to the VR video: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/865742930064965662/1103999738451333180/F10_bug_vr.mp4
Note that what you don't see in the video, is a whole lot of awful screen-tearing in the actual VR display, similar to what was happening in my first video I posted in the OP.
Here's a link to the flatscreen reproduction: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/865742930064965662/1103999777408024657/F10_bug_flatscreen.mp4
Track file is linked below to this message

4YA_Aerobatics_Online_Caucasus_Beta_V2.31_[03_AFT_EVE]-20230505-151508.trk

Edited May 5, 2023 by Magic Zach
screen tearing

[Eclipse]

I have noticed this issue, as well. It settles down after some time, but in the meantime frame time spikes and tearing are pretty bad. 

[Gigafiga]

Same problem here, pimax8k 90hz.

only on MT version.

problem start flipping F10 maps or from multiplayer menu screen.

 

I just found that deleting fxo and metashaders folders help, performance improved back and this warbling effect delayed.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Gigafiga
Fxo shaders

[Mrgone]

I'm experiencing the same on Pimax 8KX. . .  I did find however that, I can toggle to a side view, hold my head steady and toggle back to default view.  The problem corrects itself.

[Recluse]

Same on Oculus Quest 2 + Open XR +MT

Semi-randomly after spending time on F10 map, return to cockpit results in drastically decreased Frame rate . Sometimes freezing and crashing, but usually just unplayable (single digit) frames.

Compared to other instances where frame rate may be recoverable by ALT-TABBING or switching views, this seems un-recoverable.

 

EDIT:  Setting MSAA to OFF seems to have helped with this issue.  I was pretty sure I saw this issue even with it OFF, and I had reset it recently. I turned it off again and in some limited testing, prolonged F10 excursions didn't seem to cause the issue. I only tested in Single Player and the problem seemed more prevalent in Multiplayer scenarios, so will keep testing.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Recluse

[Temetre]

Have you guys checked your GPUs VRAM and PCs memory? If you switch perspective, and suddenly performance decreases, it might be because the memory is overloaded.

Or its memory leaks, who knows.

[lostwithjosh]

I have a similar issue but instead of screen tearing my game will stutter going to the F10 map then my G2 headset will go black. I can see the mirror image is fine on my 2d monitor and I can hear the game but the headset image will stay just black. Then I have to reset the whole game. 

[Recluse]

Since turning off MSAA, I haven't had this issue on my QUEST 2.  Generally, though, I didn't get the black screen in the headset, just stuttering and single digit frame rate.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Recluse

[Smokin Hole]

I have the same (or similar) issue.  It is always preceded by the types of pauses you get when scenery loads or new units spawn.  With the Quest 2 there is a slight loss of tracking, even once the framerates return to normal.  The tracking loss is partial.  If I go to F10 and move my head side-to-side, the map appears to move with my head a centimeter or two.  I can almost always get the tracking back by enabling passthrough and immediately returning to 3d.  I haven't tried delating shaders or disabling MSAA (currently set at 2X).

[lostwithjosh]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:44 AM, Recluse said:

Since turning off MSAA, I haven't had this issue on my QUEST 2.  Generally, though, I didn't get the black screen in the headset, just stuttering and single digit frame rate.

 

I think MSAA might be the issue. I turned it off (as much as I hate to) and so far it sems to have stopped my game from freezing so far.

 

EDIT: played a bit with friends today, still freezing in multiplayer

Edited May 23, 2023 by lostwithjosh
additional comment added

[Smokin Hole]

I've tried all of the solutions mentioned above and any that I've found elsewhere and I still am having this issue (including MSAA off).  I'll be flying along with liquid smooth frames and there will be a little hiccup in the mission, the sort you see in any game when something taxing to the system occurs, like units spawning. The frames don't necessarily slow down but the tracking gets "partial", if that makes sense.  It is VERY nausea inducing.  The only solution is to double tap the headset to enable passthrough and double tap again to 3D.  But because the problem occurs regularly on stressful servers like "Rotorheads", the double-tap solution is not workable.

EDIT: Definitely an F10 issue for me.  I've played a few missions forcing myself not to use it and had no issues (Syria).  Tested again with F10.  I didn't notice any problems initially but frames/tracking/tearing get progressively worse after selecting F10 once.  Problems persist even to the 2D GUI.  No F10, no problem. 

2nd EDIT:  F10 only aids the error.  I get it without F10.  SteamVR as my runtime improves the tracking and tearing but general performance is not as good.

3rd EDIT:  Now running with the VR graphics pre-select from settings.  I have a fairly high-end PC so this should work well and it does.  I think I've just been asking too much based on past improvements from multi-threading.  I still feel like something is hanging in memory.  Otherwise the "bug" wouldn't persist all the way back into the DCS main GUI.  But with lowered settings it doesn't interfere with my gameplay.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Smokin Hole
Clarification

[Bio]

Same here, I'm at the point where I don't even try to open the map.

I'm pretty sure it's a memory issue, either VRAM or normal RAM.
It's pretty clear DCS doesn't clear assets from memory when closing the map. 

I don't even have MSAA on to begin with so the proposed solution is not an option.

 

EDIT:

After a bit of debugging i noticed the biggest offender is Syria map because it's already pretty heavy as is.

I have a 8gb 3070. If I load fresh "free flight a10 c II" caucasus map i use 6.6 gb of VRAM. When i open the map it immedietlyspikes to 7.5 gb of vram and stays there.
Even going back to the main menu doesn't deallocate the memory.

On Syria it's much worse because it simply doesn't have anymore memory to work with. 7.8 GB of VRAM and 32/32gb of RAM used up when i open the map.

Why is memory not deallocated when closing the map ? 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Bio

[Blinde]

I have Quest 2 and Rtx 3070 too. The 8gb memory isn't just enough for vr.

I have 5800x3d and 32gb ram and it doesn't really help. It's just the video memory that DCS gulps fairly easy and randomly. Especially on planes like the F-14. Terrain is set to low, clouds are standard, water medium etc so I'm not using any eye candy that can be pushed to max easily on 2D with 1440p resolution.

And there really is some sort of bug on the F10 map screen. Most of the time the game becomes useless after seeing the map. This didn't happen on 2.7 versions.

The whole memory allocation is a pretty big joke in DCS since I don't have any kind of these issues with that other civilian flight sim or any other vr game. Something needs to be done seriously to the core game.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Blinde

[prianik]

6 часов назад, Blinde сказал:

У меня тоже есть Quest 2 и Rtx 3070. Памяти 8 Гб недостаточно только для vr.

У меня 5800x3d и 32 ГБ оперативной памяти, и это не очень помогает. Это просто видеопамять, которую DCS поглощает довольно легко и случайным образом. Особенно на самолетах типа F-14. Ландшафт установлен на низкий, облака стандартные, вода средняя и т. д., поэтому я не использую какие-либо глазные конфеты, которые можно легко довести до максимума в 2D с разрешением 1440p.

И действительно есть какой-то баг на экране карты F10. Большую часть времени игра становится бесполезной после просмотра карты. На версии 2.7 такого не было.

Выделение всей памяти — это довольно большая шутка в DCS, поскольку у меня нет таких проблем с другим гражданским авиасимулятором или любой другой игрой виртуальной реальности. Что-то должно быть сделано серьезно к основной игре.

 

Probably, DCS does not use unnecessary graphics memory that is not currently used, but stupidly clogs all free resources. In this way, the RTX 4090 will not be enough for a normal game. @ Is there a way to periodically clear the graphics memory?

Edited May 29, 2023 by prianik

[[101VFS] WhiskeyCharlie]

1 hour ago, prianik said:

Probably, DCS does not use unnecessary graphics memory that is not currently used, but stupidly clogs all free resources. In this way, the RTX 4090 will not be enough for a normal game. @ Is there a way to periodically clear the graphics memory?

 

I’m definitely thinking this issue is community wide, but has anyone found a solution? Not a temporary fix.

[Aquorys]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:26 AM, dutchili said:

I don't need f10 for this to happen.

Same for me. It often suddenly goes from 30-40 fps to about an 4-6 fps stutter where it draws probably two or three frames at a normal refresh rate and then pauses for a quarter to a half second, then draws another couple frames. It never recovers on its own, so it's not a temporary performance bottleneck.

On 4/25/2023 at 7:26 AM, dutchili said:

Perhaps related: taking off the headset results in permanent black screen in vr, non recoverable.

Different for me, taking off the headset for about a minute, while also switching to the task manager and from there to the Desktop, then putting the headset on again makes the refresh rate go back to normal. However, if the VR headset ever fails, it's impossible to recover it without restarting VR.

Generally speaking, it would be good if the graphics engine could switch between screen output and VR output on the fly.

[Bio]

I managed to find a way to replicate this 100% of the times and fix it every time.

Kudos goes to the many posting on other threads such as:

and reddit

 

To replicate it open the instant action "Air-to-Ground" for the A-10CII and simply open the F10 map. Other modules might work but you'll have to find them.

To fix it you need to alt tab into a different full screen window and count to 15. This number might change for you. I also use the windows task manager for this. Anything works really, as long as it's on top of the DCS client
If you have a loud GPU, you will hear the fans wind down. That is your cue to go back to the game. FPS should be back to normal.

Tested this on:

5800x, rtx 3070, pico 4, 32gb ram