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High end hotas - which one and why?

BaronVonVaderham
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BaronVonVaderham

BaronVonVaderham

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Well, looks like winwing doesn’t ship to Germany. It can’t validate my valid address. It also says that the warning can be ignored if the address is correct, but it won’t allow me to continue the purchase. 
loons like it’s trustmaster by default. Maybe I’ll upgrade the gimbal to another hotas gimbal in the future. 
shame, I was looking forward to the winwing setup. 


Edited by BaronVonVaderham
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Dragon1-1

Dragon1-1

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This is weird, you can try contacting their support, they usually respond fairly quickly. At least you'll get confirmation if they really don't ship to Germany, or if that's just a website glitch. They use FedEx, so there shouldn't be a problem shipping to anywhere in Europe.


Edited by Dragon1-1
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_Hoss

_Hoss

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Which ever HOTAS Mfg. you use, make sure you know how to use the software to program your system. Otherwise its not being utilized to the fullest, might as well buy a cheaper set. Take all the fanboi talk for what is is..... talk..... I'm a TMWH and TARGET fan boy, but I just bought a Virpil CP#2, I've got VPC and VPC Link down loaded. When I find my round tuit, I'll start teaching myself how to use it, if it doesn't make me happy I'll get rid of it, and not expand my Virpil collection. I will never touch WW junk.... nothing but horror stories of crap going wrong with it... breaking after a short time.... and PRC control of it.

Sempre Fortis

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Beirut

Beirut

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Just got my Warthog HOTAS today, and holy bejevus is it heavy. No matter how heavy you think it's going to be, it's heavier.

 

A huge difference between this and my T16000 flightstick. Four or five times as much force required to move it. Not used to it yet but I can see how it would grow on you. And I love all the buttons on the stick, but its going to take a while to figure out where to put everything. The throttle is smooooth and everything feels solid, but it's a big change from the TWCS throttle - which I really like - so more confusion with the switches. For the moment I'm using both throttles, and I'll try to see how to map the Warthog Throttle to somewhat mimic the TWCS. I might end up using both because the F-15E is going to be my focus and many buttons and switches will be required. As far as tech-toys go, these are very nice. 

 

Here's the kicker: I didn't order the throttle. I only ordered the flightsick which was about $100 off. And that's all I paid for. But Amazon sent me the whole kit by mistake. Bastards! Now I have to listen to that annoying voice in my head  😇  and contact Amazon and figure it out. Now that I have it obviously I want to keep it, but I'm going to try and get a deal. Sending it back will be a pain, they'll have to pay, there's no box just for the throttle, and then they have to sell it used. And it was their mistake in the first place. I'm going to try for 50% off and see what happens.

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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Dangerzone

Dangerzone

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2 hours ago, Beirut said:

Just got my Warthog HOTAS today, and holy bejevus is it heavy. No matter how heavy you think it's going to be, it's heavier.

 

A huge difference between this and my T16000 flightstick. Four or five times as much force required to move it. Not used to it yet but I can see how it would grow on you. And I love all the buttons on the stick, but its going to take a while to figure out where to put everything. The throttle is smooooth and everything feels solid, but it's a big change from the TWCS throttle - which I really like - so more confusion with the switches. For the moment I'm using both throttles, and I'll try to see how to map the Warthog Throttle to somewhat mimic the TWCS. I might end up using both because the F-15E is going to be my focus and many buttons and switches will be required. As far as tech-toys go, these are very nice. 

 

Here's the kicker: I didn't order the throttle. I only ordered the flightsick which was about $100 off. And that's all I paid for. But Amazon sent me the whole kit by mistake. Bastards! Now I have to listen to that annoying voice in my head  😇  and contact Amazon and figure it out. Now that I have it obviously I want to keep it, but I'm going to try and get a deal. Sending it back will be a pain, they'll have to pay, there's no box just for the throttle, and then they have to sell it used. And it was their mistake in the first place. I'm going to try for 50% off and see what happens.

I know many will probably disagree but all I can say mate is good on you for being honest and willing to contact them and work through a solution instead of saying nothing and keeping it.  I have no love for Amazon, but it shows extra character when a person doesn't change their values because of another's lesser values. Good on ya mate! 👍

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Biggus

Biggus

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13 hours ago, Hiob said:

The one thing that is keeping me away from winwing (for good) is the software.

Don't let that stop you.  You don't really need to use it at all outside of calibration or changing an axis to a button configuration.  I've had my Orion for a couple of years now and I can literally count with the fingers on one hand how often I've used the software.

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Beirut

Beirut

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16 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

I know many will probably disagree but all I can say mate is good on you for being honest and willing to contact them and work through a solution instead of saying nothing and keeping it.  I have no love for Amazon, but it shows extra character when a person doesn't change their values because of another's lesser values. Good on ya mate! 👍

 

I appreciate that, but I did think about just keeping quiet and keeping the throttle. But I taught my kids "when in doubt, do the right thing", and I'd feel pretty scummy to live the lie while preaching to them about honesty. And Amazon may be horrible in some ways, but they have great customer service.

 

The throttle is pretty damn smooth, and the build quality is super nice, but the buttons and switches are kind of difficult to map. Lots of On/Off and not enough momentary, and that makes thing difficult. If it had momentary side hats like the TWCS it would be perfect. I heard there are software mods that can hep, I'll have to look into it.

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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AlpineGTA

AlpineGTA

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12 hours ago, Biggus said:

Don't let that stop you.  You don't really need to use it at all outside of calibration or changing an axis to a button configuration.  I've had my Orion for a couple of years now and I can literally count with the fingers on one hand how often I've used the software.

I've never installed the software for my WinWing, not even for calibration and it works perfectly fine.

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i5-11600K CPU, 64GB DDR4 RAM, XFX Speedster MERC319 AMD Radeon 6900 XT, Oculus Quest 2, HP Reverb G2

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Waxer

Waxer

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My 2c on this. I have bought and owned three joystick bases. And I have experience of five HOTAS companies products:

Thrustmaster

Started with a Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and A-10C grip / base. Thought that it was mostly great but didn't really know any better. One terrible thing was the TDC slew on the throttle. I used a cottage industries (smart guy in a shed with a soldering iron) TDC conversion that replaced the Thrustmaster force sensor with an XBox type mini joystick sensor. Greatly improved control but felt flimsy. Joystick base never broke, but read and seen photos of horror stories where the zinc alloy used in the base suffered a metal fatigue stress fracture from use over a number of years.

Virpil

Switched to Virpil's Warbird base. And continued to use the Warthog grip with it. Enjoyed the Warbird base but upon opening it up not impressed by the quality of manufacturing and engineering inside. (It looked fine from the outside).

VKB

When the DCS F-14A came out saw that both Virpil and VKB produced replica grips. Tomcat being my favourite plane and favourite module did research on best grip. Read reports of problems with the quality of the Virpil F-14 grip's weapon selector slider. Decided to switch to VKB who I'd avoided before due to terrible communications and uncertain delivery times at the point I was shopping. However I was in no hurry, so I waited for the Gunfighter 3 base and F-14 grip. I love the Gunfighter 3 base in terms of feel. Upon opening it up it is clear that it is also much better engineered... basically better quality. F-14 grip I was less impressed with. Plastic fantastic, and some very spongy buttons. Worst of all is the trigger which works, but feels like air: little resistance and no tactility. I've since converted the Thrustmaster A-10C (/F-16) grip and the Thrustmaster F/A-18C (/AV-8B) grips to work on the VKB base. VKB sell nice quality conversion kits that are very easy to fit.

Winwing

Also bought Winwing's Super Taurus Hornet throttle and grip, the F-16 Orion base and throttle grip and their UFD / MFDs. This one is difficult to rate. I don't like their software which unnecessarily connected to their servers in China. I think for the throttle setups you don't need to use their software so you can sidestep that. But for the MFDs you do. Also the quality of their products is quite superficial and pretty similar to VKB (maybe a bit worse) when you open the lid up and see how things are engineered. I worry about the durability. This is Chinese toy quality stuff, not prosumer type equipment. Strangely the Orion 2 and F-16 grip seem much better built and the earlier generation stuff. So maybe they are aware of quality problems and upping their game? But - and it is a big but - the functionality of the set up you can achieve is unrivalled until recently by other HOTAS. And also the immersion of having buttons laid out and a throttle with long throw movement (but you can't buy it anymore) like the real Hornet adds greatly to immersion. So, despite the quality and "phone home" reservations, I am a fan.

Slaw

Should also mention I bought his rudder pedals. Guy with a big shed in Poland and lots of metal bashing equipment. OMG this guy is fantastic. Intelligent design, beautifully build and engineered. If Mercedes from the 1980s were to build HOTAS rudder pedals (you know... when Mercedes were literally bullet proof) then this would be it. Overengineered awesomeness.

Conclusion: go VKB base, Thrustmaster joystick grips, Slaw rudder, and throttle Winwing. I've not tried Realsim (yet LOLs) and it terms of collectives I'm not sure my bank account will survive me buying the Apache module. So I can't advise you beyond what I've already written. Oh - besides "beware of Youtube reviews written by simmers that get to keep their test samples in exchange for an especially polite review". I paid full price for my stuff, so I'll say what I think.


Edited by Waxer
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BuzzU

BuzzU

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For the record. Thrustmaster upgraded the slew control switch about a year ago. Now, it's just as good as anybody else's and never needs to be replaced.

 

Beirut.......You'll be happy to know if you don't already. The A-10C throttle grip is a copy of the F-15E. (just the grip) The stick grip is a F-16.


Edited by BuzzU
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Buzz

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Beirut

Beirut

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3 hours ago, BuzzU said:

For the record. Thrustmaster upgraded the slew control switch about a year ago. Now, it's just as good as anybody else's and never need to be replaced.

 

Beirut.......You'll be happy to know if you don't already. The A-10C throttle grip is a copy of the F-15E. (just the grip) The stick grip is a F-16.

 

I have the new model with the improved slew. It's hyper sensitive but works well. This is the first high-end HOTAS I've owned and I'm amazed at what a difference it makes in the feel of the sim. It's like I have to relearn how to fly the planes, but it's good fun.  Flying the A-10 is a whole new thing with this setup. I find it more difficult and much more fun and immersive.

 

Very happy about the F-15E similarity. I'll be spending a lot of time mapping things out. Should be pretty cool.

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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BuzzU

BuzzU

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5 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

I have the new model with the improved slew. It's hyper sensitive but works well. This is the first high-end HOTAS I've owned and I'm amazed at what a difference it makes in the feel of the sim. It's like I have to relearn how to fly the planes, but it's good fun.  Flying the A-10 is a whole new thing with this setup. I find it more difficult and much more fun and immersive.

 

Very happy about the F-15E similarity. I'll be spending a lot of time mapping things out. Should be pretty cool.

If the slew is too sensitive. Turn the saturation down to 50%.


Edited by BuzzU
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Buzz

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_Hoss

_Hoss

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Simple advice...... no matter which HOTAS you decide on, make damn sure you understand how to use all the software needed to get the optimal performance out of your set up. Otherwise you are wasting your money on a Ferrari you never get out of first gear... but damn you'll look cool though.... :punk:

:drinks_cheers:

 


Edited by _Hoss
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Sempre Fortis

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Beirut

Beirut

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1 minute ago, BuzzU said:

If the slew is too sensitive turn the saturation down to 50%.

 

Bozo that I am I didn't think about that until after I whined about it. But thank you for mentioning it.

Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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Slippa

Slippa

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Bozo that I am I had to google slew. I couldn’t remember which bit it was 🤨. Mostly fly props and haven’t had to use it.

Some good stuff in this thread. I’m thinking about chopping some different stuff in with what I have. First and only HOTAS I’ve had, after extensive reading of this and other forums is the TM Warthog throttle and stick. I was pleased with the build quality. Heavy, true, feels like it could take a good hiding and does, so far. The throttle I think could do with more three way switches. When I first got it I couldn’t think where to start or how I’d get used to it but after almost two years like a lot of you, I”m looking for more switches and bits and bobs.

I find the stick pretty stiff. Feels right for jets, or the Mossie and Jug but for the Spit I want something a bit more slick like the real thing is. I looked at those Authentikit? kits but I dunno, I can’t start building a sim pit where I am. I’m not unhappy with the Warthog but I’m looking around, reading etc. for quality, not Chinese Plastic or ET connectability bits. Plenty in here to add to my confusion. Given too many choices I can sometimes be indecisive.
 

Or can I? Really pleased with the pedals I bought. In the beginning I was looking at basics, £150 type stuff but reading here about the Crosswinds, I dunno, something convinced me and I went for it. They’re really well put together. Rock solid build quality and easily adjusted. I even got his hydraulic thing but I took it off. I might swap the plate for a smoother swing and try it again. They’re sorted and the build quality means I’d have to be looking for a reason to chop them in for something else. 

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Slippa

Slippa

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3 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Slippa.........I feel the spring in the Warthog stick is too stiff for any plane. I always changed it to this spring and it feels like a different stick. Much more control.

 

https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/

I read about these before I bought anything. Wondered how easy they were to fit with visions of me twanging it into oblivion. Probably simple enough but the price of it now with shipping from the states has gotten silly for anything. I got a  stick-mount for the mouse a while back and it did sting a bit. The other thought was versatility. I do love a jet and a heli but can't drag myself away from the old birds long enough to learn them. I'll get there in bits but I want something of an all-rounder. Easily said of course. More to think about, cheers.

If we get the Lancaster courtesy of Scooby's team I'd be tempted with another throttle, four Merlins to look after will do as an excuse. More switches too ha. :pilotfly:

 

Edit: Looking properly, I see that spring isn't in the States. Now I'm thinking about it. ... You don't work for them do ya Buzz? 😆 Cheers.


Edited by Slippa
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Slippa

Slippa

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On 5/24/2023 at 5:16 PM, BuzzU said:

I always changed it to this spring and it feels like a different stick. Much more control.

https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/

Buzz I just spent 45 mins trying to find out who it was that gave me the nudge to sort this out. (I’m blaming you, good or bad 😆 

Fitted and flight tested and it is better. I still need to get some grease for the ball as it’s a bit sticky but the spring’s lovely in the Spit.

cheers for the nudge. :pilotfly:

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kestrel79

kestrel79

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I won fantasy football at work in 2017, and still using my VKB Fat Black Mamba III and Warthog Throttle from those winnings to this day. Very reliable for me. 

 

Next I have to figure how to mount my stick to the floor so I can use the extension I bought years ago...no place to do that on my old Obutto Ozone.

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Intel i5 13600 cpu // Gigabyte z790 Aorus Elite AX // 64GB RAM // RTX4070ti // VKB Black Mamba MkIII // Warthog Throttle // TFRP Pedals // Rift S

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