intended as is Canopy Plexiglass Wrong Tint

[Magic Zach]

Unless there is some other kit or modification to the bird I'm unaware of, the AH64 doesn't have tinted (or at least, enough to be very visibly apparent) plexiglass windows.  These are the curved windows, the ones on the side and above the pilot's head.  The only windows with a tint were the ballistic glass, above and forward of the CPG.
Some pics to try to show what I mean...
2nd photo I took myself incidentally some time ago

 

 

[Magic Zach]

Modified the textures for the glass to try to replicate the effect.  Includes:
-Plexi and armored glass more hazy/opaque
-Plexi clear
-Added color variation across ballistic glass (rainbow visual effect)

AH-64D_glass.dds AH-64D_glass_dif.dds

Edited May 13, 2023 by Magic Zach

[JG27_Arklight]

Yours looks great! I noticed the blue tint as well and always wondered why it was like that in-game. Lol

[AirSenpai]

found ones with blue tint

https://www.nationalreview.com/photos/ah-64-apache/




 

[AlphaOneSix]

The real aircraft does not have any kind of tint to the widows, either the glass ones or the plexiglass. In AirSenpai's images, the "tint" comes from the reflection of a blue sky.

[Tom P]

I worked with 64s for awhile. There is no tint, it's just how the curve reflects. You can find pictures of when the canopy looks like it has neon colors.nullnull

[Tholozor]

Yea, I've never seen a tinted canopy either.

[Mapi]

MBY  FRONT & TOP: laminated glazing, like car glass, bulletproof glass.
there are several layers of material and therefore different light refraction.

I think, we got not a glass sim

 

[Mapi]

And the side windows are probably made of polypropylene (MAKROLON) or something like that

[Lord Vader]

Hi @Magic Zach

After a brief analysis, we feel that our current model for the canopy is correct.  

Thank you for your suggestion.

[Magic Zach]

On 1/15/2024 at 6:03 AM, Lord Vader said:

Hi @Magic Zach

After a brief analysis, we feel that our current model for the canopy is correct.  

Thank you for your suggestion.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?  There's no sources that describe blue tints to the side windows, and all sources that say it's clear.

[AirSenpai]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:28 AM, AirSenpai said:

found ones with blue tint

https://www.nationalreview.com/photos/ah-64-apache/




 

@Magic Zach

[Magic Zach]

2 minutes ago, AirSenpai said:

@Magic Zach

As mentioned immediately under your post, that is the reflection of the sky...

[JG27_Arklight]

On 1/15/2024 at 4:03 AM, Lord Vader said:

Hi @Magic Zach

After a brief analysis, we feel that our current model for the canopy is correct.  

Thank you for your suggestion.

 

 

Huh? What do you mean? There are pictures in this thread showing it as wrong. There are literally NO pictures to support the glass being blue.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2024 by JG27_Arklight

[Wyvern]

On 1/15/2024 at 1:03 PM, Lord Vader said:

Hi @Magic Zach

After a brief analysis, we feel that our current model for the canopy is correct.  

Thank you for your suggestion.

So, youre telling multiple people that actually have seen and/or worked on Apaches that they are wrong?

[Lord Vader]

2 hours ago, JG27_Arklight said:

Huh? What do you mean? There are pictures in this thread showing it as wrong. There are literally NO pictures to support the glass being blue.

It was @Magic Zachthat proposed a mod to make the glass blue. We agree, there are no pictures to support that claim.

27 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

So, youre telling multiple people that actually have seen and/or worked on Apaches that they are wrong?

Regarding what, precisely? What I said was, we analysed our DCS: AH-64D, including consulting our own SMEs about it, and concluded that "our current model of the canopy is correct". 

[Magic Zach]

3 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

It was @Magic Zachthat proposed a mod to make the glass blue. We agree, there are no pictures to support that claim.

No.  This is the very first sentence I said on this entire thread...
 

Quote

Unless there is some other kit or modification to the bird I'm unaware of, the AH64 doesn't have tinted...windows.

And in the 2nd post, I very clearly said and showed that I modded the glass windows to be untinted.  Remember that the ballistic glass is in fact blue however (the windows above and forward of the CPG).  The acrylic windows to the sides of each crewstation, and above the pilot are clear.

This is DCS today, by default:

[Tholozor]

There's definitely something in the default textures giving it a blue tint, even with atmospheric conditions taken out of the equation. This screenshot was taken with the default livery in the modelViewer:

[JG27_Arklight]

@BIGNEWY Can this get looked at? There's been repeated evidence of the blue windows being incorrect posted in this thread. The post marked as a "Solution" is actually showing this being incorrect, so I'm not sure how marking it as a "solution" even makes any remote sense.

Apaches don't have blue windows. This is a little silly and seems like a pretty simple fix if somebody in the community can make a texture. 

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Edited July 20, 2024 by JG27_Arklight

[Magic Zach]

22 hours ago, JG27_Arklight said:

@BIGNEWY Can this get looked at? There's been repeated evidence of the blue windows being incorrect posted in this thread. The post marked as a "Solution" is actually showing this being incorrect, so I'm not sure how marking it as a "solution" even makes any remote sense.

Apaches don't have blue windows. This is a little silly and seems like a pretty simple fix if somebody in the community can make a texture. 

Thanks for your time and consideration.

 

I marked Tom's post as a "solution"

[Raptor9]

I'm going to address this thread in a very direct, matter-of-fact manner to ensure there is no misunderstanding, because I am trusting that we can all discuss this as adults. I know DCS is available to all ages of course, but I know several of the individuals in this thread (to include the OP) are in fact adults and so I will treat them as such, instead of beating around the bush. There is no malice in my response below, it is simply expressing the facts of the situation before this thread snowballs out of hand, since it has already been linked elsewhere as an indictment against DCS as a whole.

In January, Lord Vader linked this thread to me and asked for my feedback regarding the OP's claim that the front windshield panels should have a blue tint, and asked if it was realistic. My reply to him is below:

"I would like to clarify that the real aircraft has no tint on the canopy. The reported issue was that the external model seems to have a tint to it, but that there should not be any tint at all.

It is a little strange that the same user that posted the original bug report about the external model having tint when it shouldn't, subsequently created a mod with tint in it.

The ballistic glass that occupies the forward windscreens as shown in the image above do reflect light a little differently than the side plexiglass, which can lead some to believe there is tint to it depending on viewing angle. But none of the cockpit windows actually have any tint to them."

The interpreted intent behind the thread was a claim that the front windshields needed to have a noticeable blue tint that contrasted the side and overhead windows. This is why Lord Vader marked the thread "correct as is", and that is why he responded the way he did, because I personally told him that the front windshields should NOT have any special blue tint to them as the OP seemed to be claiming in his second post. Granted, the OP did also claim that none of the windows should have any tint to them at all, which is what likely contributed to confusion within the thread. But that is irrelevant.

Regardless of how we got here, the answer to the question of whether the AH-64D has any tint to any of the windows whatsoever is that it should not, but the current external model in DCS does in fact have a slight blue shading to it. This is acknowledged; however, I will tell you that this is a very low priority to be changed by the devs. When it comes down to it, it does not impact gameplay in any way, and there is no noticeable tint effects as seen from within the internal cockpit view. The ED artists have other priorities that they must be focused toward. This is the reality of the situation, therefore I have changed the tag on the thread to "intended as is" to hopefully encourage everyone to put away their pitchforks.

[By the way, before any replies are posted insisting that I defer to SMEs on this topic, I spent 20 years in US Army Aviation, the majority of which was spent flying AH-64Ds.]

[JG27_Arklight]

4 hours ago, Magic Zach said:

I marked Tom's post as a "solution"

I think I misspoke, I meant to say the pics didn't show the blue wrap-around we have in-game. Sorry about that.

1 hour ago, Raptor9 said:

I'm going to address this thread in a very direct, matter-of-fact manner to ensure there is no misunderstanding, because I am trusting that we can all discuss this as adults. I know DCS is available to all ages of course, but I know several of the individuals in this thread (to include the OP) are in fact adults and so I will treat them as such, instead of beating around the bush. There is no malice in my response below, it is simply expressing the facts of the situation before this thread snowballs out of hand, since it has already been linked elsewhere as an indictment against DCS as a whole.

In January, Lord Vader linked this thread to me and asked for my feedback regarding the OP's claim that the front windshield panels should have a blue tint, and asked if it was realistic. My reply to him is below:

"I would like to clarify that the real aircraft has no tint on the canopy. The reported issue was that the external model seems to have a tint to it, but that there should not be any tint at all.

It is a little strange that the same user that posted the original bug report about the external model having tint when it shouldn't, subsequently created a mod with tint in it.

The ballistic glass that occupies the forward windscreens as shown in the image above do reflect light a little differently than the side plexiglass, which can lead some to believe there is tint to it depending on viewing angle. But none of the cockpit windows actually have any tint to them."

The interpreted intent behind the thread was a claim that the front windshields needed to have a noticeable blue tint that contrasted the side and overhead windows. This is why Lord Vader marked the thread "correct as is", and that is why he responded the way he did, because I personally told him that the front windshields should NOT have any special blue tint to them as the OP seemed to be claiming in his second post. Granted, the OP did also claim that none of the windows should have any tint to them at all, which is what likely contributed to confusion within the thread. But that is irrelevant.

Regardless of how we got here, the answer to the question of whether the AH-64D has any tint to any of the windows whatsoever is that it should not, but the current external model in DCS does in fact have a slight blue shading to it. This is acknowledged; however, I will tell you that this is a very low priority to be changed by the devs. When it comes down to it, it does not impact gameplay in any way, and there is no noticeable tint effects as seen from within the internal cockpit view. The ED artists have other priorities that they must be focused toward. This is the reality of the situation, therefore I have changed the tag on the thread to "intended as is" to hopefully encourage everyone to put away their pitchforks.

[By the way, before any replies are posted insisting that I defer to SMEs on this topic, I spent 20 years in US Army Aviation, the majority of which was spent flying AH-64Ds.]

No worries (and no pitchforks lol), Raptor. Thanks for the response. 

Edited July 21, 2024 by JG27_Arklight