How to stabilize TEDAC\TADS image in the moving helicopter?

[solus]

I'm trying to engage targets while my helo is moving. The problem is the image on my kill-screen is moving as fast as my Apache. I'm trying to catch bad guys with auto tracker, but even that is extremly difficult. 

The only reliable way to follow the target I found so far is to hover the helicopter and  track it, with IAT or manually. 

In Ka-50 the things seem to be much easier - you need to simply press track button anywhere on the area to stabilize the image. I'm sure that there MUST be way to do it in AH-64. 

So how? 

Edited May 24, 2023 by solus

[NeedzWD40]

Use the LMC to stabilize on the target, then use IAT. Do a quick laser pulse to get a valid range (or manually set range) to adjust the LMC's rate and stability. Also, if you have them visually, use GHS as your acquisition source to rapidly move TADS onto them.

[solus]

41 минуту назад, NeedzWD40 сказал:

Use the LMC to stabilize on the target, then use IAT. Do a quick laser pulse to get a valid range (or manually set range) to adjust the LMC's rate and stability. Also, if you have them visually, use GHS as your acquisition source to rapidly move TADS onto them.

LMC is useless... I doubt anybody really uses it at present state.

I can't believe there is no "stop the cam" button on Apache. 

[NeedzWD40]

6 minutes ago, solus said:

LMC is useless... I doubt anybody really uses it at present state.

What's the problem(s) you're having with it?

[Tom Kazansky]

3 minutes ago, solus said:

LMC is useless... I doubt anybody really uses it at present state.

I also use LMC for ground stabilisation. Works quite well while the Apache moves slowly.

[solus]

5 минут назад, NeedzWD40 сказал:

What's the problem(s) you're having with it?

To make long story short I find it extremly inconvenient. Efforts needed to make it properly follow the target are not worth of result. 

Anyway, even if it worked fine for me, it would be only a poor man's "stabilization". I'm sure that such helo as Apache with all its gyroscopes, lasers and other fancy stuff must have proper stabilization on the fly. What it gunner\co-pilot wants to inspect some area on the move? It's quite a natural wish. 

[admiki]

17 minutes ago, solus said:

LMC is useless... I doubt anybody really uses it at present state.

I can't believe there is no "stop the cam" button on Apache. 

It does. It's LMC. 

[NeedzWD40]

3 minutes ago, solus said:

To make long story short I find it extremly inconvenient. Efforts needed to make it properly follow the target are not worth of result. 

Anyway, even if it worked fine for me, it would be only a poor man's "stabilization". I'm sure that such helo as Apache with all its gyroscopes, lasers and other fancy stuff must have proper stabilization on the fly. What it gunner\co-pilot wants to inspect some area on the move? It's quite a natural wish. 

Are you using a 4/8 way hat or a ministick to control the manual tracker with LMC? I use a ministick and find it extremely precise to utilize LMC, but a hat switch user might want to look at the new sensitivity option in the special settings.

The LMC is all the real thing has, plus IAT. You can generate a point and slave to that point if you need the TADS to remain glued to a position.

[solus]

Только что, admiki сказал:

It does. It's LMC. 

Really? It only rotates the camera in the certain direction based on the power of input you made. 

Putting my own abilities to utilize it aside, I doubt that US army would use such relatively complicated solution for such a vital task. They would use a straightforward one - proper stabiliztion by pressing the right button.  

[Floyd1212]

4 minutes ago, solus said:

To make long story short I find it extremly inconvenient. Efforts needed to make it properly follow the target are not worth of result.

LMC works well with practice.  No, it is not a single button press to ground stabilize the TADS.  Learn how it works and you will get comfortable with it over time.  Use it on conjunction with IAT.

That being said, the Apache is not necessarily the best module for everyone.

[solus]

1 минуту назад, NeedzWD40 сказал:

Are you using a 4/8 way hat or a ministick to control the manual tracker with LMC? I use a ministick and find it extremely precise to utilize LMC, but a hat switch user might want to look at the new sensitivity option in the special settings.

The LMC is all the real thing has, plus IAT. You can generate a point and slave to that point if you need the TADS to remain glued to a position.

Yes, I'm using hat on my joystick (VKB Gladiator). It really doesn't make it. Keyboard doesn't as well. 

 

2 минуты назад, Floyd1212 сказал:

 

That being said, the Apache is not necessarily the best module for everyone.

Oh...

[NeedzWD40]

2 minutes ago, solus said:

Yes, I'm using hat on my joystick (VKB Gladiator). It really doesn't make it. Keyboard doesn't as well. 

That would make things a bit more difficult as a hat lacks a lot of the fine linear control. I tried both mechanics before settling on using my throttle's ministick. However, I've yet to try the special sensitivity setting in options, so you might try adjusting that value up or down to see if it helps.

[Floyd1212]

A lot of CPGs will use an Xbox controller for working the TADS in the front seat.  The analog sticks are much easier to use than an 8-way hat would be, I would imagine; I have never tried.  Using an analog stick for the TSD cursor is also helpful.

[hotrod525]

2 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

A lot of CPGs will use an Xbox controller for working the TADS in the front seat.  The analog sticks are much easier to use than an 8-way hat would be, I would imagine; I have never tried.  Using an analog stick for the TSD cursor is also helpful.

Yep, passed from Warthog HOTAS to a PS controller, it make it alot by alot more easier.  You can easily find mapping too. Keeping the throttle for all coms and stuff aided too.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

Try lasing before engaging LMC

[backspace340]

LMC seems to be worse this patch for me - seems like before if you engaged it, it'd immediately null out the aircraft's movements (without having to touch the TEDAC slew) and basically stabilise the image, but now it's not doing that. It doesn't seem to do much of anything until you start putting inputs into it.

[admiki]

1 hour ago, backspace340 said:

LMC seems to be worse this patch for me - seems like before if you engaged it, it'd immediately null out the aircraft's movements (without having to touch the TEDAC slew) and basically stabilise the image, but now it's not doing that. It doesn't seem to do much of anything until you start putting inputs into it.

It's called ground stabilised and real Apache never had it.

You have to establish manual track as best as possible, lase, engage LMC and correct as needed.

Edited May 24, 2023 by admiki

[bradmick]

This is how you use it in the real aircraft. This video is pre current patch, but the procedure is correct. You, the gunner establish a manual track. Start in the widest FOV possible first, begin continuous lasing (don’t let go of the laser trigger), turn on LMC on, adjust the slew rate, step in a FOV, adjust, so forth and so on. As someone with an ungodly amount of hours using the real tads, this is how it works. Practice, follow my procedure to the T and you’ll be fine.

https://youtu.be/IQ5R5b0PnIY

[admiki]

1 hour ago, bradmick said:

This is how you use it in the real aircraft. This video is pre current patch, but the procedure is correct. You, the gunner establish a manual track. Start in the widest FOV possible first, begin continuous lasing (don’t let go of the laser trigger), turn on LMC on, adjust the slew rate, step in a FOV, adjust, so forth and so on. As someone with an ungodly amount of hours using the real tads, this is how it works. Practice, follow my procedure to the T and you’ll be fine.

https://youtu.be/IQ5R5b0PnIY

But, but, but, it's not how I think it must be, therefore it must be wrong?

[aaronwhite]

19 hours ago, solus said:

Yes, I'm using hat on my joystick (VKB Gladiator). It really doesn't make it. Keyboard doesn't as well. 

 

Oh...

I think the hat is the biggest issue. The LMC I believe is normally controlled by the force sensitive stick on the TEDAC grip, where you have a range of input, like you do for your joystick. I feel like using a hat switch is the equivalent of trying to fly in the sim with the keyboard arrows. Sure, you technically could, but it's not going to be fun or precise.

Generally, when I use the LMC, I'll lase the target, hit my LMC button, and that's generally enough to steady the image if my helicopter is in a near-steady hover. If you're moving, you'll need to use slight pressure on your stick to get the image to hold steady, which is probably tough to do with the 0-to-100% input of a hat switch.

4 hours ago, bradmick said:

This is how you use it in the real aircraft. This video is pre current patch, but the procedure is correct. You, the gunner establish a manual track. Start in the widest FOV possible first, begin continuous lasing (don’t let go of the laser trigger), turn on LMC on, adjust the slew rate, step in a FOV, adjust, so forth and so on. As someone with an ungodly amount of hours using the real tads, this is how it works. Practice, follow my procedure to the T and you’ll be fine.

https://youtu.be/IQ5R5b0PnIY

Nice! Another Apache channel to follow. The LMC is definitely an odd thing to wrap your head around at first. But after some practice, it's pretty fun to use. I've been messing around with it trying to track moving tanks, and it's a fun challenge keeping up with them moving through the terrain. 

[solus]

2 часа назад, aaronwhite сказал:

I think the hat is the biggest issue. The LMC I believe is normally controlled by the force sensitive stick on the TEDAC grip, where you have a range of input, like you do for your joystick. I feel like using a hat switch is the equivalent of trying to fly in the sim with the keyboard arrows. Sure, you technically could, but it's not going to be fun or precise.

 

Yup. That's more of a problem of simulation. They need to simultae LMC in a way it could be effective without extra measures, like xbox controller. 

7 часов назад, bradmick сказал:

This is how you use it in the real aircraft. This video is pre current patch, but the procedure is correct. You, the gunner establish a manual track. Start in the widest FOV possible first, begin continuous lasing (don’t let go of the laser trigger), turn on LMC on, adjust the slew rate, step in a FOV, adjust, so forth and so on. As someone with an ungodly amount of hours using the real tads, this is how it works. Practice, follow my procedure to the T and you’ll be fine.

https://youtu.be/IQ5R5b0PnIY

Nice video and explanation. 

Also thank you everybody who pointed out that it should be LMC alone. 

[admiki]

10 minutes ago, solus said:

Yup. That's more of a problem of simulation. They need to simultae LMC in a way it could be effective without extra measures, like xbox controller. 

They just did with that special option in settings, where you can set how much gain you want when holding the keybind.

[solus]

11 минут назад, admiki сказал:

They just did with that special option in settings, where you can set how much gain you want when holding the keybind.

Where can I find it?

[admiki]

Special options>MAN TRK ramp up speed

[Hobel]

Works well