Datalink for F-15E?

[ThunderStrike]

Is there a function for obtaining information about the location of enemy aircraft in space from AWACS? As on the F-16 and F-18.

[falcon_120]

Is there a function for obtaining information about the location of enemy aircraft in space from AWACS? As on the F-16 and F-18.

not yet, is coming later in EA. You should be looking at JTIDS page.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[RafaPolit]

This is kind of important.  How do you get threat awareness? Only with the TEWS?  And do you react scared to every blip not knowing if it is friend of foe?

What are people doing on MP servers to know what to be aware of and what to shoot?

Thanks,

Rafa.

[Jeb]

it is pre-order, wait till the stable comes out with all the bells 

 

[Mustang25]

23 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

And do you react scared to every blip not knowing if it is friend of foe?

That’s what IFF and NCTR are for. The absence of datalink doesn’t make you ineffective.

[Yeti42]

44 minutes ago, Jeb said:

it is pre-order, wait till the stable comes out with all the bells 

 

It doesn't really work like that, functionality is released incrementally in EA beta.

[RafaPolit]

59 minutes ago, Mustang25 said:

That’s what IFF and NCTR are for. The absence of datalink doesn’t make you ineffective.

So, just to understand the process, if you have "ping" on TEWS from behind, you would turn around, try to find it on the radar and do an IFF interrogation?

I'm talking about practical scenarios in our MP environment.  I understand that, in real life, you would have notions like: "we have guys behind you" and you could probably coordinate and talk through radio.  In our MP environment this is not always the case, and I am wondering how to move around without having to react to every warning ping.  Also, in real life, the type of aircraft would give you a huge amount of info.  Again, not so much in our MP environment.

I'm not complaining, I'm not asking Razban "why didn't you give me a fully fledged product", I'm genuinely asking what are people doing to be "effective" as you so aptly put it.

Thanks for any feedback.  

[razo+r]

2 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

So, just to understand the process, if you have "ping" on TEWS from behind, you would turn around, try to find it on the radar and do an IFF interrogation?

I'm talking about practical scenarios in our MP environment.  I understand that, in real life, you would have notions like: "we have guys behind you" and you could probably coordinate and talk through radio.  In our MP environment this is not always the case, and I am wondering how to move around without having to react to every warning ping.  Also, in real life, the type of aircraft would give you a huge amount of info.  Again, not so much in our MP environment.

I'm not complaining, I'm not asking Razban "why didn't you give me a fully fledged product", I'm genuinely asking what are people doing to be "effective" as you so aptly put it.

Thanks for any feedback.  

Fly back into known friendly territory, preferably with friendly SAM coverage and then turn around and prepare for your next round of engagement.

[RafaPolit]

1 minute ago, razo+r said:

Fly back into known friendly territory, preferably with friendly SAM coverage and then turn around and prepare for your next round of engagement.

Are you serious? That could be more than a hundred miles.  I hope you are joking.

[Lymark]

1 hour ago, RafaPolit said:

This is kind of important.  How do you get threat awareness? Only with the TEWS?  And do you react scared to every blip not knowing if it is friend of foe?

What are people doing on MP servers to know what to be aware of and what to shoot?

Thanks,

Rafa.

It's tricky, but you just gotta maintain your SA via TEWS, F10 map(If allowed), spam bogey dope, IFF/NCTR, and most importantly, good radar management. The few PVP servers that I've been playing on have avoided having the same airframe on both sides, so that also helps quite a bit. If you feel like you're losing SA, bug out and reset. Having a WSO helps a lot as well.

Thus far, my main concern is the good flanker pilots who never turn on their radar and employ their ETs via IRST. Luckily, good flanker pilots are extinct in the wild, esp. in one of those 'fast-paced' PVP servers lol.

[razo+r]

7 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Are you serious? That could be more than a hundred miles.  I hope you are joking.

Oh, sorry. I forgot for a second that we are talking about DCS where dying is an option.

If I were joking I would have told you to do the good old DCS Style, just turn around, shoot some AMRAAMs and die.

Think about it for a second. This is one of the safest solutions, running away that is. You won't enter the minimum abortion range, you will eventually end up getting support, you will even the grounds or even get an advantage and you will likely continue to live for another flight. 

[RafaPolit]

5 minutes ago, Lymark said:

It's tricky, but you just gotta maintain your SA via TEWS, F10 map(If allowed), spam bogey dope, IFF/NCTR, and most importantly, good radar management. The few PVP servers that I've been playing on have avoided having the same airframe on both sides, so that also helps quite a bit. If you feel like you're losing SA, bug out and reset. Having a WSO helps a lot as well.

Thus far, my main concern is the good flanker pilots who never turn on their radar and employ their ETs via IRST. Luckily, good flanker pilots are extinct in the wild, esp. in one of those 'fast-paced' PVP servers lol.

Yeah, this more or less summarizes a reasonable approach, except for the bugging out part .  I'd prefer not to lose my last 45 minutes of flying just to start over again.  But yeah, I guess it makes sense. 

2 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Oh, sorry. I forgot for a second that we are talking about DCS where dying is an option.

If I were joking I would have told you to do the good old DCS Style, just turn around, shoot some AMRAAMs and die.

Think about it for a second. This is one of the safest solutions, running away that is. You won't enter the minimum abortion range, you will eventually end up getting support, you will even the grounds or even get an advantage and you will likely continue to live for another flight. 

So, taking DCS out of the equation, do you think that is how it goes IRL?  A flight of F-15 invest millions of dollars and human hours to go into a remote location to strike a strategic target, and at the smallest blip on the TEWS they are instructed to just turn around and run back to SAM coverage and throw the mission off the board?

[razo+r]

10 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Yeah, this more or less summarizes a reasonable approach, except for the bugging out part .  I'd prefer not to lose my last 45 minutes of flying just to start over again.  But yeah, I guess it makes sense. 

In contrary, you save time by bugging out. You don't have to do another startup of your jet.

10 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

So, taking DCS out of the equation, do you think that is how it goes IRL?  A flight of F-15 invest millions of dollars and human hours to go into a remote location to strike a strategic target, and at the smallest blip on the TEWS they are instructed to just turn around and run back to SAM coverage and throw the mission off the board?

Real life and the classic DCS MP are not comparable. Real life is much more complex and has a lot of different factors in play that don't exist in DCS.

But as far as your example goes, if that blip means the death of 2 or more people and millions of taxpayer money, then they would definitly priorities flying back home and pay the fuel than take those losses.

But in conclusion, it is entirely up to you what you consider the most effective method. Be it race into the AO, sling AMRAAMs around and get shot down, or have some flights where you simply have to run because you lost your SA and want to life.

Edited June 27, 2023 by razo+r

[falcon_120]

It's tricky, but you just gotta maintain your SA via TEWS, F10 map(If allowed), spam bogey dope, IFF/NCTR, and most importantly, good radar management. The few PVP servers that I've been playing on have avoided having the same airframe on both sides, so that also helps quite a bit. If you feel like you're losing SA, bug out and reset. Having a WSO helps a lot as well.
Thus far, my main concern is the good flanker pilots who never turn on their radar and employ their ETs via IRST. Luckily, good flanker pilots are extinct in the wild, esp. in one of those 'fast-paced' PVP servers lol.

If I can add to that some additional good advice:

-Be on comms, some PvP servers have gci humans that talk you through the overall picture and bandits, if not, the rest of people could do.
-Plan ahead, at least setup a basic flight plan, I normally create a way point of the general area I want to bomb, and some other way points on the 1/2 closest enemy airfields where bogeys will very likely come from.
-Don't fly low unless you need too, in most challenging servers I play in (blueglag, ddcs) most of the time you die off manpads when you are too focused on other bandits or targets, flying high alse give you scape options and make difficult to jump on you in a very stealthy manner (unless you are operating in very high mountains with deep valleys).
-Respect the Mar against airborne threats and high digits SAMs.
-Don't stay like a fool over enemy territory, you go in just to release a strike or intercept a bandit, but you are suppose to come back to a safe area, at least to the friendly side of the Forward line of troops where you rebuild your SA.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Lymark]

25 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Yeah, this more or less summarizes a reasonable approach, except for the bugging out part .  I'd prefer not to lose my last 45 minutes of flying just to start over again.  But yeah, I guess it makes sense. 

I guess my advice is more useful for PVP environment then. Most PVP servers out there usually require less than 200nm of travel to the frontline(~15mins), and they have a pretty straightforward mission design as well as good SAM coverage/Combined Arms allowed.

If long-haul flights are a common occurrence on the server that you play on, then I'd suggest planning your sortie before you even start your engine. Open up the F10 map, see where the actions are, avoid unknown/risky areas, and setup waypoints on friendly air defenses so you know where to bug out to when crap hits the fan. Maybe even place a couple of sam sites of your own If allowed. 

Having a good prep would definitely help not getting 'ganked' from behind, I can't remember the last time such a thing has happened to me even in a hardcore PVP server.

#Edit: Basically what the comment above(falcon_120) said.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Lymark

[RafaPolit]

Yeah, it's the same servers we are talking about.  Less than 200nm, but still, some 15 minutes to cold start, align, input coordinates, etc.  Then the flight itself.  With other airframes perhaps even an in-between A2A refuel (luckily the F-15E bypasses that on most cases), so yeah... 30 to 45 minutes of sortie.  Yeah, we are talking about the same servers I guess.

I try to avoid F-10 as it feels like cheating, but yeah, may be that, in this case, it's required. I try to communicate as much as possible, but I have found out that there's less than 50% of pilots that use SRS, and from that 50%, about half are on the wrong channel or talking by themselves on their group.   Human GCIs has been very rare in my experience, but when it happens, yeah, the experience is completely different!  Exploiting bogey-dope, as you put it, could be a good middle ground approach.

I need to get re-used to those flows, as having the F-16 SA page has been my bread and butter reference to avoid unwanted missiles in the but!  

Edited June 27, 2023 by RafaPolit

[WRCRob]

At the moment we have a very 1990's spec F-15E and we are working our way towards a 2005-ish spec for CTU-1, Things will be added as we go along and I am sure that the MIDS/Link-16 DL will be added sometime in the future. You have to remember that in real operations, Fighters are never really alone and will have AWACS and GCI support to help with target ID, and SA. In DCS we don't have dedicated controllers 100% of the time which does decrease SA but its not something that can't be overcome. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

4 hours ago, WRCRob said:

At the moment we have a very 1990's spec F-15E

Yes and that's what I love about it

[Mav783]

6 hours ago, RafaPolit said:

Yeah, it's the same servers we are talking about.  Less than 200nm, but still, some 15 minutes to cold start, align, input coordinates, etc.  Then the flight itself.  With other airframes perhaps even an in-between A2A refuel (luckily the F-15E bypasses that on most cases), so yeah... 30 to 45 minutes of sortie.  Yeah, we are talking about the same servers I guess.

I try to avoid F-10 as it feels like cheating, but yeah, may be that, in this case, it's required. I try to communicate as much as possible, but I have found out that there's less than 50% of pilots that use SRS, and from that 50%, about half are on the wrong channel or talking by themselves on their group.   Human GCIs has been very rare in my experience, but when it happens, yeah, the experience is completely different!  Exploiting bogey-dope, as you put it, could be a good middle ground approach.

I need to get re-used to those flows, as having the F-16 SA page has been my bread and butter reference to avoid unwanted missiles in the but!  

 

Hi !

I think you should try some late cold war modules, as the Mirage 2000 for exemple, or the Mig-21. With fox1&2 capability, a RWR, but no SA page and no real datalink (link16). Simply because those planes were not equipped with this kind of technology. So much modules in DCS does not have link16. And the SA is built with differents ways. Even with the AWACS in simple radio com... A good bogey dope and picture can already give you a vision. Then flying alone is no recomended. And 2 planes can cover eachoser in a better way.

Even IRL, pilots are trained to built and keep their SA without data-link. As modern as it is, data-link are not omniscient technologys.

Anyway, the datalink will come with the F-15E, in a further update.

++

Edited June 27, 2023 by Mav783

[RafaPolit]

Yeah, I am always eyeing the M2000 for purchase, but haven't yet gotten to it.  I either fly the Warbirds or the newer Jets (up to F-14 included, which, also, does not have the "full" advantage of link16).  Yeah, maybe I'll grab it during this sale? Who knows.  Thanks

[Diima]

So datalink is not everywhere in DCS. There are some server where even the f16 have to do the iff checks. And the most Server have not the same jets for each side. So even IRL it’s unrealistic that an su27 appears in the RWR behind you in a blue zone and you have to check if it’s friendly or not. Know your enemy’s and friendly RWR signals. On the DDCS server even the f15 pilots have no issues to know if it’s friendly or not. Communication, AWACS, RWR is your key. Not datalink. 

[RedTail11]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:35 AM, RafaPolit said:

Are you serious? That could be more than a hundred miles.  I hope you are joking.

Bro... What do you do on MP Servers that simulate Vietnam/Korea? What do you do on MP Servers that don't have AWACS? Have you literally only ever played the F/A-18 with datalink? What do you think everyone else not flying the Hornet does in those situations? Gosh forbid you play a WWII Server with no radar or rwr and no awacs. Just Mk1 Eyeballs.

[RafaPolit]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:33 PM, RedTail11 said:

Bro... What do you do on MP Servers that simulate Vietnam/Korea? What do you do on MP Servers that don't have AWACS? Have you literally only ever played the F/A-18 with datalink? What do you think everyone else not flying the Hornet does in those situations? Gosh forbid you play a WWII Server with no radar or rwr and no awacs. Just Mk1 Eyeballs.

Actually, this is what I fly 95% of the time. The difference is that a WWII plane needs to be 300 feet away from you to shoot you, and you from them.  Using your mk1 eyeballs is perfectly fine.

On modern MP servers, the “others” know you are there 80 miles away.

Also, I honestly think that reading comprehension should be a crash course before allowing posting in these forums: I clearly wrote that I am not complaining, that I am ASKING how do you guys do it and how do you compensate for the lack of datalink.  Obviously you and others read:  “please mock me as much as you can with your pedantic attitudes and your incorrect assumptions”.

Thats nice.

[BigBorner]

1 hour ago, RafaPolit said:

how do you compensate for the lack of datalink.

Focus on the Radar + TEWS. Put it on 80 Miles display, put the TDC on 40nm, Scan alternating from 0-20k feet and 18-whatever it was feet. Hope that this giant dish does something for you. 

[BuLLeT.ZA]

@RafaPolit I would say it comes down to planning.

You should know what your friendlies are flying as well as what opposition you might expect. That way you will know how to react based on your TEWS most of the time.

Listen closely to the AWACS bullseye calls if it's available. Compare that to your own bulls readout.

Using those two together should give you good SA, but I'll admit it takes a while to be able to build a good mental picture based on bearings and distances. I'm still working on it.

Lastly have a plan before you take off. You're presumably flying from A to B to bomb something. Stick to that plan and try not to get distracted. Use something like TheWay to plot your waypoints / target points.