DCS: WWII Assets Pack - B-17G Livery Competition Template improvement Discussion

[Helles Belle]

The more the merrier I say.

We need as many liveries as we can get for the B-17.

I won’t be sharing any screenshots until the end. Mainly because last comp my nose art was badly cut and pasted and past of as their own.

I’ve completed all the following and some more. I’m just in the process of now doing the generic versions for each.

Hells Bell aka Elsie Mae
Punchy
Bottle Baby
Webbers Wagon
Satans Lady
Kwitchabitchin
Baby Lu
Miss B Haven
Lady Vivian
Heavy Date

Flak Eater

Edited July 7, 2023 by Helles Belle

[Mach3DS]

Oh no worries.  I'm not submitting this one.  

[Helles Belle]

I don’t mind if you do. The aluminium looks great.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Beautiful paint chipping! Looks like hours of labor. Love the look of the prop dome.

IMHO, the mirror polish of the aluminum doesn't match the weathered look though. Maybe for a fresh from factory would the mirror be appropriate. Still, Kudos!

(Pretty amazing the effort we're putting into an AI only aircraft. I have 20 - 30 hrs so far...)

[Megalax]

See this is the issue with doing roughmets as a colour map rather than working individual channels separately. Sure it looks okay, but it doesn't follow conventional PBR as it is meant to function within DCS. You can whine all day about its practicality, but I didn't come up with the convention and its how all the models that use roughmets work in DCS.

When you work this way you have texture information in channels where it doesn't belong, such as the AO (Ambient Occlusion) channels

 

All that artwork shouldn't be there. AO is for shading. At the very least it should be the addition of what Aqil has done with the rivets plus the AO found in the template.

plus this which is already in the template

..slightly edited of course as there are things in there that should also not be there.

null

Edited July 7, 2023 by Megalax

[Art-J]

@Mach3DS Go ahead and submit non-generic "Flak Eater" as well. Nothing wrong in having two or more renditions of the same livery to choose from, ESPECIALLY when NM finish is involved and different authors deal with reflective surfaces in a different way. Not to mention the weathering.

[Helles Belle]

☝this

[Megalax]

5 hours ago, Urbi said:

your explanations about PBR are simply wrong here.

I'm so wrong about PBR... Especially this comment.

Quote

firstly, the model to be used has no roughness in which I could use your method.

You can create it. You're a texture artist expert after all, shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Megalax

[Mach3DS]

27 minutes ago, Urbi said:

right Mr. Megalax. In three years after the bug with the ED spec appeared, the experts represented here have not been able to eliminate it. if ED's specular had been a proper specular texture and not fake, at least it would have worked before. from a specular you can create colors from the shades of gray. that's OK. but the B-17G speculars are wrong color textures. in the absence of the roughmet textures for this model, you can play around with your controls as long as you want. you will not get any result. strangely enough, the artists didn't offer any roughmet for the main textures here. Well, you super expert, try to create a roughmet using the PBR method from an "f2 g0" or "f2050 g0". or even better, create a template for these textures. there are enough models at ED that need improvement that have these texture properties. Of course that's too inferior for an artist's job and who needs that anyway. works of art are much more interesting. i hope that all the hand-painted logos will not only be copied by the artists, but also painted by hand. everyone here knows about the handling of rougness, so you can leave your explanations in the Livery Art Group. because I have no idea, I have created a better-looking result for the B-17G, at least so far , than the ones I could see here. I can say for the artists that I will not take part in the competition and had no intention of doing so. If I publish liveries of the B-17G, they should at least be authentic and one have useful use, so that you are able to have a season of the same unit.. the problem with the metallic effect is now solved, so that you can close the forum post.

 

The hubris is astonishing considering the result.  You've managed to insult everyone here.  Congrats.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Mach3DS

[Wyvern]

right Mr. Megalax. In three years after the bug with the ED spec appeared, the experts represented here have not been able to eliminate it. if ED's specular had been a proper specular texture and not fake, at least it would have worked before. from a specular you can create colors from the shades of gray. that's OK. but the B-17G speculars are wrong color textures. in the absence of the roughmet textures for this model, you can play around with your controls as long as you want. you will not get any result. strangely enough, the artists didn't offer any roughmet for the main textures here. Well, you super expert, try to create a roughmet using the PBR method from an "f2 g0" or "f2050 g0". or even better, create a template for these textures. there are enough models at ED that need improvement that have these texture properties. Of course that's too inferior for an artist's job and who needs that anyway. works of art are much more interesting. i hope that all the hand-painted logos will not only be copied by the artists, but also painted by hand. everyone here knows about the handling of rougness, so you can leave your explanations in the Livery Art Group. because I have no idea, I have created a better-looking result for the B-17G, at least so far , than the ones I could see here. I can say for the artists that I will not take part in the competition and had no intention of doing so. If I publish liveries of the B-17G, they should at least be authentic and one have useful use, so that you are able to have a season of the same unit.. the problem with the metallic effect is now solved, so that you can close the forum post.

Digga ich sags dir mal auch deutsch.

Halts maul.

Jeder hier, der etwas über die RoughMets gesagt hat, weiß besser darüber bescheid als du.

Du machst skins seit 2014, ich mach welche seit 2 jahren. Irgendwie ist es lustig zu sehen, dass alles was ich von dir so gesehen habe, entweder (objektiv) scheiße aussieht oder ein "Edit" ist.

Ich hab mal ne Idee für dich. Bevor du hier so Big-D*ck mäßig rumlaberst, mach mal etwas, was so ne quali hat wie der kram der von Mega, Mach oder von anderen Leuten von denen du sagst "die sind amateure"

Ey ohne scheiß. Du regst mich auf. Es ist SO schwer die nicht einfach zu beleidigen.

[Awacs_bandog]

yall need to touch serious grass

[Megalax]

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Regardless of who has the biggest... (and from my impression Urbi is extremely lacking due to his lack of civility).

I really want to know... @NineLine... is ED is actually going to change the B-17 (and hopefully all other legacy modules) to PBR / Roughmets.

I'm almost at the point where I need to work on the reflective parts of my B-17 skin. Mine is painted but has lots of weathering and areas of bare aluminum. I could do it as Specs but much prefer PBR / roughmets. I can do either but don't want to waste my time (which I'm beginning to think that I've spent way too much time on for an AI plane). ED needs to come to a conclusion and let us know. After all, we're working basically for free (regardless of the "Prize".

[Warlord64]

Hi Guys

I  and many others found it very difficult in the past  to get any sort of descent  reflectivity for the B17 by  just editing the RoughMets alone which  never seemed to give any satisfactory results  so I experimented and found that editing  a certain value in the JSON folder is what   made a huge difference.

I am not very tech minded but  and it may not be the perfect fix  but it works.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Warlord64

[Wyvern]

To be honest, this entire part with the JSON folder is nice, but wouldnt be neccesairy if we had RoughMets by default (without having to make/download them etc etc)

[Warlord64]

16 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

To be honest, this entire part with the JSON folder is nice, but wouldnt be neccesairy if we had RoughMets by default (without having to make/download them etc etc)

True, But  until ED  implements  a better option   then alternative solutions are all We have for now and are better than what  was already available

[Wyvern]

I agree, but ill see something for my skins..
Maybe ill just implement both a Specular and a RoughMet texture until something changes

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Warlord64]

57 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I agree, but ill see something for my skins..
Maybe ill just implement both a Specular and a RoughMet texture until something changes

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
 

Cool, whatever works best for You

[Mike Busutil]

I'm seeing an issue with my B-17G skins..

1. When I edit the Photoshop files I am saving them as a BMP.

2. I drop these files into Dxtbmp and save as a DDS DXT3 file.

3. When viewing the skin in ModelViewer 2.0,  the skin now looks like it is randomly placed on the model and not properly aligned.

This is the same result if I save the files as DXT1 No Alpha, DXT1, DXT3 or DXT5. 

However, if I save as another DDS file type the skin result is all black... 

This is the same way I have created and saved DCS skin files in the past, something either changed on my end or there is something different with the B-17 model.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong here?

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Mike Busutil

[Mach3DS]

DXTBMP might be flipping them?  Did you ever paint for FSX or P3D?  I thought that was a setting you could change.  

Edited July 10, 2023 by Mach3DS

[BIGNEWY]

Duplicates are fine, we know there maybe crossover with some of the more popular historic aircraft, the team will have a hard time picking winners I am sure.

Just please make sure it is all your own work. 

thank you and good luck.  

[Mach3DS]

On 7/6/2023 at 5:38 PM, Mach3DS said:

Oh no worries.  I'm not submitting this one.  

^^

[Mach3DS]

But maybe I will.  

[Mach3DS]

41 minutes ago, Urbi said:

I was just pointing out that you shouldn't do it because it would be a waste of time. the user who had already published his livery before the competition started should now have the chance to take part in the competition by additionally creating a generic livery. all previously released liveries are so good they deserve to be resubmitted. ED should point out that the division letters on the tail and wing should probably belong to generic. the differences only arise with the Sqdn and group numbers. I had already shown the generic of the "K" 4th Bombergroup. the Sqdn then differ in the coloring of the engine cover. 708th BS yello, 709th BS white, 710th BS red and 711th BS blue. A detailed description can be found in this PDF.

https://hazy.home.xs4all.nl/Planes/T3165%20Mission%20Belle/Books%20and%20Magazines/Battle%20Colors%201%20-%20Insignia%20and%20Aircraft%20Markings%20of%20the%20Eighth%20Air%20Force%20in%20World%20War%20II.pdf

I'll submit what I want, thanks.  What's been done previously is not a criteria I use for whether I make a paint.  I create what interests me.  

[Texac]

1 hour ago, Urbi said:

I was just pointing out that you shouldn't do it because it would be a waste of time.

Then why do we have a competition in the first place?