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Laser bombing moving targets - how?


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Posted (edited)

ah, yes, it was the mission editor thing, i just removed it, and it required me to designate, but i just designated a few inches ahead, then all the other steps for getting a ptrk were the same. i also noticed, if you enter the WP in, and its still flashing in the UFC it wont let you box CDES. heres the track anyway

 

EDIT: Another fun fact i just worked out, if you want to change a standard waypoint to a . waypoint (ie Target wp), without the Mission editor, or on the fly from co-ords, just goto ufc main menu, select the current WP button to enter into the waypoint edit screen, then type the number of the waypoint you want to change followed by a . and press that onto the waypoint in the top left, and it will change to target waypoint 👍 

F15GBUPTRK2.trk

Edited by CH4Pz
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Posted

We’ve come to determine that the technique in my video is not sound (wish I had seen this thread last week!)

CDES is not really meant for moving targets. Moving target continuously designation will come in later software suites and SNIPER. 
 

The way to do it, in a nutshell,  is designate out in front, drop on that designation and manually steer the laser into the targets. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Sedlo said:

We’ve come to determine that the technique in my video is not sound (wish I had seen this thread last week!)

CDES is not really meant for moving targets. Moving target continuously designation will come in later software suites and SNIPER. 
 

The way to do it, in a nutshell,  is designate out in front, drop on that designation and manually steer the laser into the targets. 

There is no need to steer the laser onto the moving target as PTRK tracks the moving target and the laser follows the PTRK. As the LGB can make corrections in flight, designating the moving target instead of ahead of it still allows the LGB to hit the target even after the designating diamond (and thus bomb fall line) falls behind the target. (Unless the target is moving so fast that the LGB needs some lead.) 

The update fix to the CDES will cause the designation diamond to follow the PTRK which means your bomb fall line is moving along until pickle. At least that’s my understanding.

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Posted

To further provide some context, in more modern suites the aircraft has actual mover logic through a new cursor function called ACQ cursor function, this allows you to point track a mover and create a target pod moving target track or TMTT. This is an actual air to ground trackfile with a known direction and speed. This can be used to automatically calculate a lead impact point for a weapon, a point where it would ballistically hit the mover assuming the current direction and speed stays constant. Another feature that helps with this is called lead laser guidance, this automatically shifts the laser slightly in front of the mover to help the bomb compensate for lag, sag and energy loss.

 

Now, in Suite 4 with LANTIRN they had none of this, the LIP calculator was called the WSO, so they had to designate in front of the mover and lead with the laser all manually using rules of thumb estimates based on travel speed. CDES was not used by most people, it really just has the potential to create a lot of issues while its benefits are very questionable in the first place. Point track was also seldom used, it really is just better to track stuff manually with LANTIRN. Using CDES and point track at the same time is just asking for trouble. Manually follow and lead the movers and area track stationary targets, be extremely careful when using CDES (mainly going to be useful with Mavs but that's another topic) and try to approach this without the bad habits that DCS ingrains into people's heads.

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Posted

Just did some testing online and didn't have any issues with point track. I did notice that I would designate a spot a bit ahead of the target, then with point track boxed slew the cursor near the target. At that point it would capture. Black hot seemed a lot better, at least against a desert background.

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  • 2 months later...
Posted
9 hours ago, dporter22 said:

Still no capability to track/designate moving targets in 2.9.

Hope they implement a newer suite and/or newer pod sooner rather than later.

i havent used in a little while, but it was working before, or did 2.9 break it? are you using cdes, ptrk and auto aq. , try changing bhot/whot to get a stronger lock, and designate ahead of vehicle half a screen length.

i made this practice mission, with moving targets which i was able to track all (i havent tested with 2.9 though)

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3332223/

Posted

As you can see in this entire thread, it wasn't working before and still isn't. Suite 4 either didn't have the capability, or the pod didn't, or they did but it didn't work in this module, but either way you can't track and designate a moving target.

So like I said, it would be nice if/when they update the module.

Posted

There’s PTRK and CDES, or manual des.  Nothing currently prohibits attacking movers. 
 

Not sure what more the intent here is. You want to lead, you do manually. That’s…how it was. 

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Posted

As has been explained in this thread, the current suite and/or pod cannot track and simultaneously designate moving targets, and CDES was not designed to do so. 

And as I explained, the intent is that it will be nice if/when the capability to hit moving targets (like the A-10, F-16, and F-18 can) is implemented.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

As has been explained in this thread, the current suite and/or pod cannot track and simultaneously designate moving targets, and CDES was not designed to do so. 

And as I explained, the intent is that it will be nice if/when the capability to hit moving targets (like the A-10, F-16, and F-18 can) is implemented.

What do you mean it can’t?  Track and des are independent. 
 

The process is no different than what the others have either.  The capability exists across the board, to include the F-15. 

Edited by Rainmaker
Posted

Not sure what you're not understanding. Please read this thread for an explanation.

The current F-15SE suite/pod cannot simultaneously track and designate a moving target like the A-10, F-16, and F-18 can. As you said, track and designate are independent in this suite, they are combined in the other aircraft with newer suites/pods.

 

Posted
8 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

Not sure what you're not understanding. Please read this thread for an explanation.

The current F-15SE suite/pod cannot simultaneously track and designate a moving target like the A-10, F-16, and F-18 can. As you said, track and designate are independent in this suite, they are combined in the other aircraft with newer suites/pods.

 

They are independent in all suites. CDES was also removed in later suites. 

Posted

They are not independent in all suites because later suites/pods had/have the capability to track/designate/hit moving targets just like the other aircraft using newer pods. Which is why it will be nice if/when they implement those capabilities.

Posted
Just now, dporter22 said:

They are not independent in all suites because later suites/pods had/have the capability to track/designate/hit moving targets just like the other aircraft using newer pods. Which is why it will be nice if/when they implement those capabilities.

Yeah. They are. It has nothing to due with the pod. The designation deals with the airplane itself. You guys are misunderstanding what is a thing and what isn’t. 

Posted

Please explain how the A-10, F-16, and F-18 can simultaneously track and designate a moving target, with the designation remaining on the moving target, the ASL following the moving target, the laser remaining on the moving target, and the LGB tracking the laser to the moving target without leading, redesignating, and hoping the target doesn't change speed or direction as is required in the current F-15SE module.

The answer is that they have newer suites/pods which can do so, while the current DCS F-15SE does not.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

Please explain how the A-10, F-16, and F-18 can simultaneously track and designate a moving target, with the designation remaining on the moving target, the ASL following the moving target, the laser remaining on the moving target, and the LGB tracking the laser to the moving target without leading, redesignating, and hoping the target doesn't change speed or direction as is required in the current F-15SE module.

The answer is that they have newer suites/pods which can do so, while the current DCS F-15SE does not.

Again, they have no mover logic in any of those jets. They do not have mover logic to pre-calculate a lead impact point.  The pods in DCS do NONE of that  

The intent of CDES works in the same fashion where it constantly updates the designation.  No different than updating manually repeatedly. 

Again, the two are not the same. ‘Newer’ pod in DCS means nothing. They are using the same logic. 

Edited by Rainmaker
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

You didn't answer the question. The A-10, F-16, and F-15 can track/designate/hit moving targets. Please explain how.

All they are doing is updating the current pos until release. And then aiming the laser at the target and dragging the bomb off its ballistic course. The exact same things that can be done with the E model in its current status. Again, they are all using the same tracking/laser logic. 
 

The one ‘bug’ that may or may not still exist is the ‘designate’ action cycling between ATRK and PTRK which is unintended behavior and is a bug.  In which case, post drop retracking of the mover is still same/same as the other modules. 

Edited by Rainmaker
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Posted

Correct, the target designation and lasing are continually updated automatically, which the DCS F-15SE module cannot currently do.

You really need to review this thread. There are explanations and videos.

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

Correct, the target designation and lasing are continually updated automatically, which the DCS F-15SE module cannot currently do.

You really need to review this thread. There are explanations and videos.

Sigh. The lasing is the same. Again, it uses the same logic as the other jets do.  Manually updating the until release is same/same.   So predominantly used that CDES was removed later down the road  lol  

Say can’t and doesn’t is false  

Almost, like….I tested all this in the dev cycle as part of the dev team. Lol. I’m intimately aware of what does and doesnt do. Lol. 

Edited by Rainmaker
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