cannot repoduce and missing track file George A.G.A.I.N.

[Emme]

Anyone else having trouble getting George to lase the Lima correctly? They hit anything but the actual target after the last update.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Emme

[Floyd1212]

I don’t think you can put that on George. The Limas seem to have lots of issues, whether George is firing them, or a human CPG.

If you are watching the TADS and you see George lock on a target with IAT, then lase and hand off the target data, the rest is up to the missile.

we haven’t really seen a statement from ED saying they are working properly or not. Some SMEs have commented on how how they aren’t the best solution for all applications, but what I’m seeing are instances where there is no reason the missile shouldn’t be able to track a target, and it ends up hitting the ground instead. 

[Emme]

The problem I have with the Limas right now is that they've been working fine for me before the patch. Now I seem to regularly run into the situation of them going off somewhere else that's not even close to the previously lased target.

For example, I had a moving convoy of 2x BMP's and 2x T90's right in front at about 5km. I was within' launch parameters, had clear LOS and was in a stable hover. Multiple Limas that were fired at the convoy went straight into the ground after not even half the distance to these targets. They didn't even come off the rails like regularly, instead of going up and doing a turn they immediately went straight down to the ground.

Unfortunately I forgot to save the track file, but this happened multiple times in different missions now. Also George more often seems to refuse lasing when being within' parameters and clear LOS on the target. I did not try the Kilos yet, but engagements with the Lima have def gotten much worse since the last update at least on my end.

Maybe someone else can confirm such strange behavior after the update?

Edited July 28, 2023 by Emme

[NeedzWD40]

What were the conditions? Flight time to target area? Mountains or flat? Trees, villages, or plains? Moving targets or static? Multiplayer or singleplayer?

I haven't seen any real changes for the most recent patch with the 114Ls. They're still pretty much the same, picky with how they're used but generally I'm getting about 90% hit rate with them. I rarely use George, but both up front and with multicrew (including a green CPG) they've hit dead-on. A quick test in singleplayer with George and he's hit both moving and static targets, both while hovering and moving.

[Emme]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb NeedzWD40:

What were the conditions? Flight time to target area? Mountains or flat? Trees, villages, or plains? Moving targets or static? Multiplayer or singleplayer?

I haven't seen any real changes for the most recent patch with the 114Ls. They're still pretty much the same, picky with how they're used but generally I'm getting about 90% hit rate with them. I rarely use George, but both up front and with multicrew (including a green CPG) they've hit dead-on. A quick test in singleplayer with George and he's hit both moving and static targets, both while hovering and moving.

I was checking out the new update with the "Pretense" Caucasus and Syria sp missions. Hot started on an airfield right at the frontline, so ToT was like a few minutes into the mission. In both missions I ran into the same situations of having perfect conditions for Hellfire shots, completely within' launch parameters, in steady hover and clear LOS on the target, like I already said in my previous post. I know how the engagements work, both as pilot and co-pilot, I'm almost exclusively soloing the Apache since it launched and had hundreds of successfull engagements since then on- and offline. So the procedures and settings are well known.

The strange thing about all of this is that today when I tried to make a track file everything worked absolute fine like it usually does. I did not ran into any similar problems. So there must be some circumstance or condition that is causing a "high" chance of Hellfire's to miss that I'm yet not able to reproduce. But I will investigate this further and will upload a track file as soon as possible.

[Marshallman]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:31 PM, Emme said:

Anyone else having trouble getting George to lase the Lima correctly? They hit anything but the actual target after the last update.

 

Yes, Select target Laser on, Laser off...then he just sits there with tab saying "Cant shoot Now" noticed this change since last update to be fair.

I carry a mixed load on the 4YA servers, by switching back to K's he starts laser on and fires ...... and continues effortlessly. If I switch back to Limas when I need quick cover he then holds again on the Limas.....

Regards

[pii]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:58 AM, Marshallman said:

Yes, Select target Laser on, Laser off...then he just sits there with tab saying "Cant shoot Now" noticed this change since last update to be fair.

I carry a mixed load on the 4YA servers, by switching back to K's he starts laser on and fires ...... and continues effortlessly. If I switch back to Limas when I need quick cover he then holds again on the Limas.....

Regards

His view may be blocked. FYI I have to give him the shoot command at least three times and right after he says laser off he will fire on the next shoot order I give him. It's kind of odd but it works for me. Also when he finally shoots the Lima it's right on target. 

[rwbishUP]

I can't get "George" to do anything right. He refuses to fire 90% of the time, when we're in perfect weapon parameters, he completely misses even broadside targets multiple times, he almost never acknowledges the "permission to fire" command, and when he does respond with "firing" he still refuses to fire, can't get him to engage with rockets no matter what, even though range and angle is perfect

Edited August 13, 2023 by rwbishUP

[corbu1]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb rwbishUP:

I can't get "George" to do anything right. He refuses to fire 90% of the time, when we're in perfect weapon parameters, he completely misses even broadside targets multiple times, he almost never acknowledges the "permission to fire" command, and when he does respond with "firing" he still refuses to fire, can't get him to engage with rockets no matter what, even though range and angle is perfect

 

Hm, George is actually quite good again shooting the gun. Also Hellfires. This is for George as cpg. Rockets are best used from pilotstation as it‘s needed to control the aircraft for firing. George as hog can assist there in coop mode lasing the target, but I have noticed no problems with this mode actually.

[Nealius]

He works perfectly with laser Hellfires for me. He can't hit squat with the gun, though. I've flown directly at and over stationary targets and he still couldn't land hits. Over larger distances (2~2.5km) rounds are affected by wind (as they should) but George doesn't adjust. 

[Diablo 1-1]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:57 PM, rwbishUP said:

I can't get "George" to do anything right. He refuses to fire 90% of the time, when we're in perfect weapon parameters, he completely misses even broadside targets multiple times, he almost never acknowledges the "permission to fire" command, and when he does respond with "firing" he still refuses to fire, can't get him to engage with rockets no matter what, even though range and angle is perfect

 

Yeah I've had the issue with George refusing to fire the gun for me mainly. He will say firing but won't. Even as we fly past the targets, sometimes he just won't fire. I think it's because he doesn't refire the laser to get range again so he still thinks we are 4km away even though we were like 2km away.

[Diablo 1-1]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:09 AM, Diablo 1-1 said:

Yeah I've had the issue with George refusing to fire the gun for me mainly. He will say firing but won't. Even as we fly past the targets, sometimes he just won't fire. I think it's because he doesn't refire the laser to get range again so he still thinks we are 4km away even though we were like 2km away.

So basically you have to switch to your AGM-114K so George actives the laser to update the range is what I found I have to do. Was stuck at 4km last night so he wouldn't fire the gun. Switch to hellfires, he lasers, switch back gun and then he would engage. So maybe a George laser command would be nice.

[pii]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:45 AM, Nealius said:

He works perfectly with laser Hellfires for me. He can't hit squat with the gun, though. I've flown directly at and over stationary targets and he still couldn't land hits. Over larger distances (2~2.5km) rounds are affected by wind (as they should) but George doesn't adjust. 

Hellfires are no issue here and George is a snipper with the gun now. You have to have George do a targeted search first (just like with missiles) and then he can fire once you have a lock. 

[Varry007]

George is a useless piece of *work in progress*

[BIGNEWY]

complain as much as you like about George, he works pretty well for me, 

if you want to show issues include a short as possible track replay. 

thanks

[bkthunder]

Looks like it works well enough only for you! But I'm complaining about his flying capabilities as a pilot

Edited October 6, 2023 by bkthunder

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, bkthunder said:

Looks like it works well enough only for you! But I'm complaining about his flying capabilities as a pilot

 

Seems so, but happy to look at track replays where it is not. Feel free to attach one. 

[Diablo 1-1]

On 10/4/2023 at 11:47 AM, BIGNEWY said:

complain as much as you like about George, he works pretty well for me, 

if you want to show issues include a short as possible track replay. 

thanks

Is that the DCS replay system? Beca use mine are never consistent. I've had one where I crashed in the first 3 minutes of the replay but it never happened. Anyways is it not a reasonable idea to have a command to tell George to fire the laser to update the range to the target? When you have Kilo Hellfires it's not a problem because he just fires when you switch. If you have Limas he likes to wait longer than I'd like in combat situations. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Diablo 1-1

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, Diablo 1-1 said:

Is that the DCS replay system? Beca use mine are never consistent. I've had one where I crashed in the first 3 minutes of the replay but it never happened. Anyways is it not a reasonable idea to have a command to tell George to fire the laser to update the range to the target? When you have Kilo Hellfires it's not a problem because he just fires when you switch. If you have Limas he likes to wait longer than I'd like in combat situations. 

 

I work with the track replay system every day, its an old system intended for debug. DCS has out grown it and it needs to be updated, and will be in the future. 
But for bug reporting we need short tracks, if you just need one aircraft and a couple of units to reproduce an issue that is the best thing to do, long multiplayer tracks with hundreds of units with complex scripts that are unrelated to the problem wont help. I can not stress this enough, we always need a track replay, if we can not reproduce an issue it is the only way to try and catch the issue. 

thanks 

[Diablo 1-1]

14 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I work with the track replay system every day, its an old system intended for debug. DCS has out grown it and it needs to be updated, and will be in the future. 
But for bug reporting we need short tracks, if you just need one aircraft and a couple of units to reproduce an issue that is the best thing to do, long multiplayer tracks with hundreds of units with complex scripts that are unrelated to the problem wont help. I can not stress this enough, we always need a track replay, if we can not reproduce an issue it is the only way to try and catch the issue. 

thanks 

Here you go. Got a track that matched perfectly. I don't know if its just me doing something wrong but once I switch to infantry, George about 7KM out, wouldn't lase to update the range. I kinda spammed the fire button towards to end but he should have updated it sometime in between. I know for sure he would have updated it as soon as I switched to a Hellfire. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, just as a user, it feels frustrating when he won't update the range like shown in the track.

 

Hope this helps

Georgenotupdaterange.trk

Edited October 7, 2023 by Diablo 1-1