SAM avoidance help

[Indianajon]

Hi @Reflected, hope you are well. I figured this was as good a place to put it as any but i wonder if you could help? While i feel moderately confident in avoiding IR SAMs i still feel lost when it comes to radar guided ones like in this campaign. I wondered if you could create a video or mission to help teach in either this or speed and angels? I'm aware that Bio and Paco might not want to go into too many real details for obvious reasons and that dcs systems may not be hugely accurate,  but I wondered if you could help show us how to best do it in the game. 

I feel much more confident in all other aspects of the Tomcat thanks to your campaigns but feel this is where I fall down. Alternatively if anyone has any advice on where too look. 

Ta

[draconus]

Your best bet is to avoid before the launch, meaning take a large arc around the SAM.

If you're being shot at run away descending down into thick air making snake moves to exhaust the missile's energy.

[Reflected]

Yeah I need help with this too haha

 

@draconus arcing around the sam may work in real missions but this is training, you’re immortal, you wanna practice dodging those missiles not avoiding them. 
 

Spudknocker recently posted a great video on sam avoidance, it helped me a lot. 

[Nealius]

I haven't gotten to this stage in Zone V yet, but in DCS typically you have to go nose cold, dive a bit, and accelerate up to Mach 1 to drag the SAM out. Used to, and according to real-life accounts as well, lower digit systems like the SA-2/3 could be defeated with notching, chaff, and 5-6G break turns, but at some point in DCS they've become immune to all countermeasures and can pull infinite G to hit you no matter what you do.

[draconus]

8 minutes ago, Nealius said:

can pull infinite G

Track or it didn't happen. Also SAMs can't be notched. Beaming with chaff may work.

Edited August 9, 2023 by draconus

[Nealius]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Track or it didn't happen.

See forum discussions on SA-2 being OP, with the lua clearly indicating a higher G limit than it should have. It's in the bugs forum.

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Also SAMs can't be notched. Beaming with chaff may work.

Beaming and notching are the same thing. "Beam" in reference to you being on the enemy's 3/9 line, and "notch" in reference to the enemy being on your 3/9 line.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Nealius

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

Beaming and notching are the same thing. "Beam" in reference to you being on the enemy's 3/9 line, and "notch" in reference to the enemy being on your 3/9 line.

Notching includes hiding in ground returns while beaming not.

[Nealius]

Incorrect per real-world brevity manuals. See APP-7(E).

 

[draconus]

4 hours ago, Nealius said:

Incorrect per real-world brevity manuals. See APP-7(E).

Fair enough. This is what is usually meant/used in this forum discussions (that notching is defensive beaming against higher a2a threat).

[draconus]

 

[Reflected]

This one is really good:
 

 

[Indianajon]

Thanks everyone.  Great help and lots of useful content.

[jmarso]

Not sure if it is considered 'cheating' or not, but after getting my azz handed to me in the first SAM dodging mission, in the next one when I was division lead I simply arced the whole flight low and to the north. We got mud spiked a couple times but never even launched on. Rinse and repeat on the egress, and the SAMs were a non-issue that time around. The easiest SAM to avoid is the one not fired at you.  

 

Even giving up the altitude going into the intercept, we still won the engagement with one loss. (I stripped the second section and sent them north, and we went hot into the merge after sending in the AIM-54C to stir up the hornet's nest) 

[Reflected]

Yeah you can go around it but then you’re not practicing

[Dentedend10]

I was able to avoid them before by dodging 90 degree nose down as soon as they are launched and that way they are driven into the ground. Not sure if that's realistic though.. I'll check those videos out as I'm having difficulties trying to avoid them realistically too.