QOL suggestion: "Default" controller mapping

[Mr_sukebe]

I've just replaced my throttle.  Having most modules in game, unsurprisingly, that results in shall we say, a fair bit of work to remap controls for over 30 aircraft.

Having pondered about it a bit, I'm hoping to make the following suggestion:

• Disable DCS auto-assigning for new controls.  It invariably applies the wrong configurations and just leads to confusion
• Introduce the option to "ignore" a controller, for both all of DCS and also by aircraft.  I fly in VR.  DCS has introduced settings for my VR controllers, which might be useful, if I ever used them.  However, I don't.  More to the point, I have 12 controllers (excluding the usual keyboard, mouse AND Oculus controllers).  What I've found is that DCS really does seem to have a limit on the number of controllers attached.  Keep adding them and it gets very upset when I try to open the controller settings whilst in game.  I'd like to be able to completely ignore say my Oculus controllers for ALL aircraft, and then ignore my TM MFDs for the Warbirds
• Introduce a new page called say Default Controller setting (or rename/re-use and expand the current "general" page).  Don't automatically have that apply any configurations elsewhere
• Give the Default Controller page a LOT of typical controls.  The current general one is just too small.  If you take the latest F16 and Mossie binding options as an example, that would help.  I'm thinking of:
  • LOTS of axes, i.e. for not just the usual roll, pitch, rudder, but also for lighting, e.g. call them something like front panel, HUD, left panel etc
  • Give the names of the various controls the option for use to give an additional name, such that we might give it something more meaningful
  • LOTS of controls, to cover jets, warbirds and helicopters

• For our aircraft, allow:
  • Inherit ALL Default Controls (useful for new aircraft)
  • Inherit Default Controls for a specific controller (useful for new controllers)
  • Inherit Default Controls for a specific controller to ALL aircraft type (helicopter, warbird or jet) (also useful for a new controller)

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Disable DCS auto-assigning for new controls.

Yes, absolutely. Aside from something like a Warthog HOTAS being used specifically with that modules, this feature just causes problems. Truth is the only common controls which could be accurately preassigned are the pitch and roll axis. That’s all. Only those two. So why bother?

5 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Introduce the option to "ignore" a controller, for both all of DCS and also by aircraft.

You can go disable controllers in each module now, just select Disable. Or just leave them turned off or unplugged. Having a global disable would be a great idea too. 

5 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Give the Default Controller page a LOT of typical controls.

The trouble is there aren’t that many common controls. Not every module has flaps or landing gear etc. Plus all the modules are preexisting and made by many different companies. This would have to be implemented without screwing up everyone’s schemes. 

5 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Inherit Default Controls for a specific controller (useful for new controllers)

You can do this now with Save and Load profile. Both the modules’ controls would need to be identical or the profile only contain similar controls. The perfect use for this is something like the AH-64 where the Pilot and CPG have identical controls. Works perfectly there. I could imagine creating one for warbirds but the truth is that even these aren’t strictly identical so it’s more reliable to just do this from scratch IMO

But it is actually possible now to create default schemes for your controllers and load them. Just that there aren’t that many common commands. Such is the price of high fidelity. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by SharpeXB

[LeCuvier]

I would support the request to get rid of he default assignments altogether, except where a game controller is a replica of a simulted aircraft's HOTAS.
I have spent lots of time clearing out these default bindings which are mostly nonsense.
 

[Mr_sukebe]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Yes, absolutely. Aside from something like a Warthog HOTAS being used specifically with that modules, this feature just causes problems. Truth is the only common controls which could be accurately preassigned are the pitch and roll axis. That’s all. Only those two. So why bother?

You can go disable controllers in each module now, just select Disable. Or just leave them turned off or unplugged. Having a global disable would be a great idea too. 

The trouble is there aren’t that many common controls. Not every module has flaps or landing gear etc. Plus all the modules are preexisting and made by many different companies. This would have to be implemented without screwing up everyone’s schemes. 

You can do this now with Save and Load profile. Both the modules’ controls would need to be identical or the profile only contain similar controls. The perfect use for this is something like the AH-64 where the Pilot and CPG have identical controls. Works perfectly there. I could imagine creating one for warbirds but the truth is that even these aren’t strictly identical so it’s more reliable to just do this from scratch IMO

But it is actually possible now to create default schemes for your controllers and load them. Just that there aren’t that many common commands. Such is the price of high fidelity. 

 

 

A few thoughts:

 - Just tried disabling a controller via the little triangle drop down on the right of the device name.  However, that appears to disable the device for ALL aircraft.  How do I limit it to the specific aircraft in question?

 - Ref common controls.  Yes, there are very much called other things, e.g. to account for different countries giving them different names.  However, many do pretty much the same thing, e.g. gear down.  It would be very viable to have a "gear down" option in the Default, with then a mapping in say the Spitfire controls to link the currently named "undercarriage down" to the "gear down".  If the developer couldn't be bothered, I'd do it myself.  Again, using the mapping, if you have a control in the "default" set that has no match up, e.g. the "gear down" within default, whilst you're in a Huey, then it could simply be ignored.  That gets around the not particularly useful option of save and load profiles, which as you say, are tied to identical control layouts

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Just tried disabling a controller via the little triangle drop down on the right of the device name.  However, that appears to disable the device for ALL aircraft.  How do I limit it to the specific aircraft in question?

This only disables the controller for that particular aircraft. Give it another try. 
 

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

That gets around the not particularly useful option of save and load profiles, which as you say, are tied to identical control layouts

if you try creating a default profile, you’ll find that there are so few common controls that it’s not worthwhile. Like if I tried to make a common default for my throttle, just as a point of beginning, it would only contain that axis plus zoom in and out. That’s all. Trying to come up with anything more elaborate is a bigger headache than just mapping everything individually. 

[Mr_sukebe]

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

This only disables the controller for that particular aircraft. Give it another try. 

 

Apologies, can you please talk me through this.

I've gone into the "controls" for say my Spitfire.  Within that screen, I've gone to say one of my F16 MFDs.  On that box, there's a drop down that opens by clicking on the inverted triangle.

Within the drop down, there's an option of "disabled".  When I click on that, it adds a Tick against it and that definitely disables the MFD for the Spitfire.

However, if I then go to my F16, the same is disabled, despite me not disabling it for my F16.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

 

Apologies, can you please talk me through this.

I've gone into the "controls" for say my Spitfire.  Within that screen, I've gone to say one of my F16 MFDs.  On that box, there's a drop down that opens by clicking on the inverted triangle.

Within the drop down, there's an option of "disabled".  When I click on that, it adds a Tick against it and that definitely disables the MFD for the Spitfire.

However, if I then go to my F16, the same is disabled, despite me not disabling it for my F16.

Go to that same pull-down in the F16 and click “disabled” again and it will uncheck it. 

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Go to that same pull-down in the F16 and click “disabled” again and it will uncheck it. 

Oh, that's cool! Thanks!

So you can basically open the General settings, or UI Layer, and disable every controller for all modules, and then enable what you need in a specific module? Nice! What happens if you enable it in General again? Enabled in all modules again? 

Cheers! 

[Mr_sukebe]

It does work, however, it means having to go into the controls menu when you change aircraft.  I couldn't see a way to have it such that my Spit could be left with MFDs permanently disabled, whilst they worked fine in the F16.

[SharpeXB]

1 minute ago, Mr_sukebe said:

It does work, however, it means having to go into the controls menu when you change aircraft.  I couldn't see a way to have it such that my Spit could be left with MFDs permanently disabled, whilst they worked fine in the F16.

It should be a permanent setting. For example I have a gamepad controller enabled for the Apache CPG but disabled for all other modules. Just like you’re trying to do with the MFDs
I think the way it works is when you select “disable” initially it affects every module. Then you can enable it per aircraft. That makes sense actually. I haven’t tested that out though. 

[upyr1]

I have asked for ED to implement a couple profiles for common controls before. So anything that simplifies setting up a module will be welcome. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by upyr1

[Mr_sukebe]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It should be a permanent setting. For example I have a gamepad controller enabled for the Apache CPG but disabled for all other modules. Just like you’re trying to do with the MFDs
I think the way it works is when you select “disable” initially it affects every module. Then you can enable it per aircraft. That makes sense actually. I haven’t tested that out though. 

If that’s how it works, then no, it doesn’t make sense.  Firstly because it’s not obvious, and secondly that would mean that if you only want to disable a controller for say 3 aircraft, that you’d have to disable the controller for all, then re-enable for the other 30+

Edited August 28, 2023 by Mr_sukebe

[SharpeXB]

21 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

If that’s how it works, then no, it doesn’t make sense.  Firstly because it’s not obvious, and secondly that would mean that if you only want to disable a controller for say 3 aircraft, that you’d have to disable the controller for all, then re-enable for the other 30+

 

Well I don’t think there’s a perfect solution. Any way it’s done you’re going to have to go into every module and check or uncheck regardless. Now if DCS did not automatically assign commands you wouldn’t have to worry about it. 

[MAXsenna]

It should be a "spreadsheet" with all the modules and controllers and you just click away. 

[HILOK]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:52 AM, Mr_sukebe said:

I've just replaced my throttle.  Having most modules in game, unsurprisingly, that results in shall we say, a fair bit of work to remap controls for over 30 aircraft.

Having pondered about it a bit, I'm hoping to make the following suggestion:

• Disable DCS auto-assigning for new controls.  It invariably applies the wrong configurations and just leads to confusion
• Introduce the option to "ignore" a controller, for both all of DCS and also by aircraft.  I fly in VR.  DCS has introduced settings for my VR controllers, which might be useful, if I ever used them.  However, I don't.  More to the point, I have 12 controllers (excluding the usual keyboard, mouse AND Oculus controllers).  What I've found is that DCS really does seem to have a limit on the number of controllers attached.  Keep adding them and it gets very upset when I try to open the controller settings whilst in game.  I'd like to be able to completely ignore say my Oculus controllers for ALL aircraft, and then ignore my TM MFDs for the Warbirds
• Introduce a new page called say Default Controller setting (or rename/re-use and expand the current "general" page).  Don't automatically have that apply any configurations elsewhere
• Give the Default Controller page a LOT of typical controls.  The current general one is just too small.  If you take the latest F16 and Mossie binding options as an example, that would help.  I'm thinking of:
  • LOTS of axes, i.e. for not just the usual roll, pitch, rudder, but also for lighting, e.g. call them something like front panel, HUD, left panel etc
  • Give the names of the various controls the option for use to give an additional name, such that we might give it something more meaningful
  • LOTS of controls, to cover jets, warbirds and helicopters

• For our aircraft, allow:
  • Inherit ALL Default Controls (useful for new aircraft)
  • Inherit Default Controls for a specific controller (useful for new controllers)
  • Inherit Default Controls for a specific controller to ALL aircraft type (helicopter, warbird or jet) (also useful for a new controller)

100% yes ! thanks for taking the time and putting those well thought through suggestions together 

i'm thinking maybe 'inherit specific controls from <select aircraft>' could also be useful ?

the first bullet point on your list is the most urgent, imo, as it's currently really just messing up everything. another way to automatically assign controls in a 'sensible' way could be a 'share control settings' checkbox. specific aircraft and specific controller bindings including user curves could be collected and paired in a database. a function 'apply community settings' would then try to find a aircraft-controller match in the DB and apply most common bindings and average curves...?

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, HILOK said:

i'm thinking maybe 'inherit specific controls from <select aircraft>' could also be useful ?

You can already do this with the Save and Load Profile function. But it’s not very useful given how different the modules are. 

4 hours ago, HILOK said:

another way to automatically assign controls in a 'sensible' way could be a 'share control settings' checkbox.

Again, already possible 

4 hours ago, HILOK said:

specific aircraft and specific controller bindings including user curves could be collected and paired in a database. a function 'apply community settings' would then try to find a aircraft-controller match in the DB and apply most common bindings and average curves...?

ok it’s not that hard to set this up yourself. Given that no two people are alike and the variety of hardware and controller combinations this doesn’t seem feasible at all.

Edited August 29, 2023 by SharpeXB

[upyr1]

On 8/29/2023 at 6:37 AM, SharpeXB said:

ok it’s not that hard to set this up yourself. Given that no two people are alike and the variety of hardware and controller combinations this doesn’t seem feasible at all.

This would take a database so all that would be needed is the ability to load your settings to a database. The issue would be infrastructure. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

This would take a database so all that would be needed is the ability to load your settings to a database. The issue would be infrastructure. 

I just can’t see that as being feasible or necessary. I recently lost all my control settings when I moved to a new machine. It took surprisingly little time to reassign them all. The time required to do this for an individual module is negligible. Such an elaborate solution for something so simple just isn’t needed IMO. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Slippa]

Whenever I’ve had to reassign bindings to different modules it’s been a royal PITA. It’s not something that takes me five minutes by any stretch and usually comes as a result of me having buggered something else like my OS or DCS install. It’s getting simpler but only because I’ve had to sort it a good few times. I don’t always remember which curves I set up and how so there’s usually a fair bit of fiddling.

Quite like the idea of having a better way.

[SharpeXB]

Well there’s no way for the game to automatically assign commands in a way that anyone is going to find agreeable. And the list of truly common commands is very small. Plus any new system can’t screw up the mappings that everyone already has. So what we have now is pretty much all that’s possible. And not that difficult to deal with. 
The truth is most players deal with this menu rarely, only with new purchases or hardware. So I’d hate to see ED putting undue effort towards such a low priority item. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by SharpeXB

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Well there’s no way for the game to automatically assign commands in a way that anyone is going to find agreeable

This is the reason I have always advocated for a profiles called "common controls" though some cases like the Warthog and the A-10 the mapping should be obvious 

 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

And the list of truly common commands is very small.

The common controls are enough to get flying

throttle(s)- left and right, for two engine planes I guess single engine could default to either one

Pitch, yaw, roll, are the same for planes

collective and cyclic- common for helicopters 

Trim- common enough

toe brakes- common for all Western planes

brake handle- common for Eastern

Nose Wheel steering- common for the West

Target designator x and y axess - common for anything with a radar

trigger- another common command

weapon release- common 

you don't have to map everything for every module automatically you just have to have enough mapped that you can at least do a free flight in instant combat 

[Mr_sukebe]

13 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I just can’t see that as being feasible or necessary. I recently lost all my control settings when I moved to a new machine. It took surprisingly little time to reassign them all. The time required to do this for an individual module is negligible. Such an elaborate solution for something so simple just isn’t needed IMO. 

 

ok, you’ve made your point that you don’t think this adds value, we hear you.

Can I please now ask that unless you’ve something new to add, that you allow others to have their say.

[SharpeXB]

8 hours ago, upyr1 said:

This is the reason I have always advocated for a profiles called "common controls" though some cases like the Warthog and the A-10 the mapping should be obvious 

 

The common controls are enough to get flying

throttle(s)- left and right, for two engine planes I guess single engine could default to either one

Pitch, yaw, roll, are the same for planes

collective and cyclic- common for helicopters 

Trim- common enough

toe brakes- common for all Western planes

brake handle- common for Eastern

Nose Wheel steering- common for the West

Target designator x and y axess - common for anything with a radar

trigger- another common command

weapon release- common 

you don't have to map everything for every module automatically you just have to have enough mapped that you can at least do a free flight in instant combat 

But when you get to any individual module some of these won’t apply and most of the work is assigning its aircraft specific features. So this doesn’t help very much. And “quick free flight” commands like pitch and roll or throttle are already preassigned (although this causes problems). And the nature of DCS is you can’t jump straight into action like a console game. There’s a manual to read etc. 

And again, it’s already possible to save default profiles for controls and load them in. Commands like Spacebar for weapon release or G for landing gear, F for flaps, zoom view etc are already common between modules as far as I can tell.

Bottom line: Any rework of the controls menu shouldn’t screw up the commands for people who already have these assigned and the suggestion above sure seems like it would. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by SharpeXB

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

But when you get to any individual module some of these won’t apply 

Everything I listed is either universal or applies to such a large number of modules that odds of applying are high.

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

quick free flight” commands like pitch and roll or throttle are already preassigned (although this causes problems).

The throttle and rudder pedals are always messed up. When you install a new module. As are triggers.

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

But when you get to any individual module some of these won’t apply and most of the work is assigning its aircraft specific features. So this doesn’t help very much. And “quick free flight” commands like pitch and roll or throttle are already preassigned (although this causes problems). And the nature of DCS is you can’t jump straight into action like a console game. There’s a manual to read etc. 

And again, it’s already possible to save default profiles for controls and load them in. Commands like Spacebar for weapon release or G for landing gear, F for flaps, zoom view etc are already common between modules as far as I can tell.

But the aren't always assigned correctly for controllers.

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Bottom line: Any rework of the controls menu shouldn’t screw up the commands for people who already have these assigned and the suggestion above sure seems like it would. 

 

There is no reason for a common controls profile to mess up existing profiles. If you understood programming which you clearly don't you would realize you can easily prevent possible conflicts. For example programming dcs use the common profile when installing a new module or controller or when the player clicks a reset button on a module.  

[SharpeXB]

15 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

The throttle and rudder pedals are always messed up. When you install a new module. As are triggers.

Yeah lots of the preassigned axis settings aren’t right. It would seem the only reliable axis settings to preassign are pitch and roll. Not everyone has a separate throttle or rudder pedals. But auto assigning pitch and roll from any connected device results in dual mapping. So honestly the best solution is to have DCS not apply anything.

20 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Everything I listed is either universal or applies to such a large number of modules that odds of applying are high.

Check again, many modules actually don’t have much of these all in common. And the trouble is that just having common commands isn’t the issue. It’s the actual controller layout you need. I can’t imagine having a similar layout for a P-47 and Hornet or Apache, that doesn’t seem practical. Everyone is different so assuming this is a big help to all may not be the case. For myself if I tried to have a default throttle arrangement, the only common commands would be the throttle axis itself, which is preassigned, and zoom in and out and zoom normal. That’s three buttons to map. So it’s not worth the effort for me to make default throttle profile and load it. But that can be done already if someone wanted to. There are other flight sims with common aircraft commands but these are either mid fidelity and all of the same era like WWII or civilian sims which don’t have so many particular combat oriented systems to replicate. DCS is this high fidelity study sim where having identical control layouts doesn’t seem practical. And again, it’s not a great idea to redo the whole system and screw up everyone. So it is what it is.