Possible VR performance fix

[Mike_CK]

I’m posting this in the hopes that it helps out someone else with the same problem.

I can play every other module and get a steady 45fps (per eye) in VR on any map in both SP, MP and liberation EXCEPT MP and liberation on the Syria map. 

BUT then I bought the Hind. Maybe it’s the giant wrap-around cockpit filled with switches and knobs, but I had FPS in high 20’s to mid 30’s even on caucuses. I tried messing with all sorts of Game and OTT settings but the only ones that helped was cockpit textures down to medium and Terrain shadows to off; went up to 36-40 FPS (even turning down PD from 1.3 to 1.2 didn’t help). Problem was that sometimes I would get a smooth 45fps on an instant action or mission editor missions on Cauc, PG and Syria, while on other missions on the same maps, I got high 30’s. 

I finally copied some of those 35-39FPS instant action missions from Cauc, PG and Syria to the mission editor and set the CLOUDS from “scattered/Broken to “nothing”.  With all clouds removed, I got a smooth steady 45fps on all of them (Cauc, PG and Syria). I put clouds back in and went back to high 30’s on all three again. Just turning clouds to low did nothing.

It’s likely that the Hind is a resource hog and rides close to the edge so clouds are just too much. But in a helicopter, they are kind of pointless anyway. I was able to raise forest vis back up to 60 from 30 and scenery/forest details back up to .4 from .1 and still get 45 FPS (but had to keep cockpit on medium and terrain shadows off)

Sorry for the long winded explanations but I’m hoping this may help someone

Edited August 27, 2023 by Mike_CK

[admiki]

I disagree on cloud being pointless. Cloud shadowing affect how good your observation of the ground is. Try flying in the mountains with low ceiling and see how much you pucker.

[Hiob]

8 hours ago, Mike_CK said:

I’m posting this in the hopes that it helps out someone else with the same problem.

I can play every other module and get a steady 45fps (per eye) in VR on any map in both SP, MP and liberation EXCEPT MP and liberation on the Syria map. 

BUT then I bought the Hind. Maybe it’s the giant wrap-around cockpit filled with switches and knobs, but I had FPS in high 20’s to mid 30’s even on caucuses. I tried messing with all sorts of Game and OTT settings but the only ones that helped was cockpit textures down to medium and Terrain shadows to off; went up to 36-40 FPS (even turning down PD from 1.3 to 1.2 didn’t help). Problem was that sometimes I would get a smooth 45fps on an instant action or mission editor missions on Cauc, PG and Syria, while on other missions on the same maps, I got high 30’s. 

I finally copied some of those 35-39FPS instant action missions from Cauc, PG and Syria to the mission editor and set the CLOUDS from “scattered/Broken to “nothing”.  With all clouds removed, I got a smooth steady 45fps on all of them (Cauc, PG and Syria). I put clouds back in and went back to high 30’s on all three again. Just turning clouds to low did nothing.

It’s likely that the Hind is a resource hog and rides close to the edge so clouds are just too much. But in a helicopter, they are kind of pointless anyway. I was able to raise forest vis back up to 60 from 30 and scenery/forest details back up to .4 from .1 and still get 45 FPS (but had to keep cockpit on medium and terrain shadows off)

Sorry for the long winded explanations but I’m hoping this may help someone

 

That's kind of interesting. Seems that clouds trigger some kind of bottleneck here. Of course clouds have an impact on performance in general, but to my experience not in that magnitude.

What kind of hardware are you running?

[LucShep]

10 hours ago, Mike_CK said:

I finally copied some of those 35-39FPS instant action missions from Cauc, PG and Syria to the mission editor and set the CLOUDS from “scattered/Broken to “nothing”.  With all clouds removed, I got a smooth steady 45fps on all of them (Cauc, PG and Syria). I put clouds back in and went back to high 30’s on all three again. Just turning clouds to low did nothing.

It’s likely that the Hind is a resource hog and rides close to the edge so clouds are just too much. But in a helicopter, they are kind of pointless anyway. I was able to raise forest vis back up to 60 from 30 and scenery/forest details back up to .4 from .1 and still get 45 FPS (but had to keep cockpit on medium and terrain shadows off)

Sorry for the long winded explanations but I’m hoping this may help someone

 

Yep, the clouds are big graphical resource hog. It's nothing really new, it has been so since their first iteration in version 2.7.
I can only suppose the calculations, the diverse textures, their formations and the shadows casted from them, are causing the impact.

They can account to as much as 25% GPU usage with my RTX3090, from "Nothing" to "Overcast" (1 to 7), more so if set to anything above "Standard" quality.
I always set them at "Low" quality for VR, and also tend to edit the missions (for SP) to change the clouds setting in ME at "High Scattered 1" (then save and exit).

Edited August 28, 2023 by LucShep

[Mike_CK]

9 hours ago, Hiob said:

That's kind of interesting. Seems that clouds trigger some kind of bottleneck here. Of course clouds have an impact on performance in general, but to my experience not in that magnitude.

What kind of hardware are you running?

i9-12900

128GB ram

Radeon Rx6900xt

Run with an Oculus Quest 2. Nothing earth shattering and like I said, I get smooth and steady 45fps in everything except the Hind. I’ve always had clouds at standard in VR. In the Hind, dropping to low didn’t do much but eliminating them did. And as for whether they matter: yeah, I’m sure there is a difference but nothing compared to the importance of having smooth FPS. At least for me

[Mike_CK]

Tried things again. With NO clouds at all, I can get a smooth 45fps on Syria with

texture: high/high

shadows: medium

terrain shadows: flat

forest view distance: 70 and forest/building details at .5 each

BUT….if I add ANY clouds (scattered 7 for example), even with clouds on low….I get 35-39 FPS! Even on caucuses! Even after I lower my settings to 

textures: high/medium

shadows: low

terrain shadows: off

forest draw distance: 30 with details at .1 and .1

I had no idea that clouds- even on low- have THAT much of an impact on FPS.

For the Hind, I have to load every mission into the editor and remove them and I cannot play MP. Don’t have the issue with other modules as stated.

maybe it’s just something on my end but that doesn't seem right

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mike_CK

[admiki]

As long as you don't have stutters, 35 FPS is fine. Anything above 24 FPS brain sees as a smooth movie.

Yes, it sucks that clouds have that much impact on FPS. Could ED make them better? I don't know, I'm not a programer.

[Hiob]

12 hours ago, admiki said:

Anything above 24 FPS brain sees as a smooth movie.

Except, it doesn't. That's a total myth. Probably popular because movies in cinema have 24 fps.

The true part of this is, that we humans can perceive a sequence of pictures as one motion at this rate (in fact even lower, like 7-11 fps). But that is when the frame is still and the object is moving.

Just compare a movie (24fps) with a telenovela (50-60 fps) and see the difference in the fluidity of motion. In fact the small framerate gives movies their distinct look.

It really shows when you do panning with the camera. So the frame is moving, not the object. With 24 fps you will only see a blurry mess. And the higher the fps the better it gets. 

So, you are right in that stutters are the real problem. And anything else is a matter of personal taste and preferences in what is an acceptable framerate.

But this "Anything above 24 fps...." is just incorrect. 

[Mike_CK]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:39 PM, admiki said:

As long as you don't have stutters, 35 FPS is fine. Anything above 24 FPS brain sees as a smooth movie.

Yes, it sucks that clouds have that much impact on FPS. Could ED make them better? I don't know, I'm not a programer.

Have to disagree. Big difference between a smooth consistent 45 and bouncing around between 34-39; that’s a 10% - 20% difference and I can tell. I can’t tell the diff between 60fps and anything more, but I can between 35 and 45; especially because the fos Isn’t steady. For me, it’s all clouds. Doesn’t matter how low my settings are, any clouds takes down FPS from 45 to 35.

Edit: keep in mind, I’m not complaining, claiming it’s a bug or a demanding anything. I’m just offering a solution to an issue  I encountered In the hopes that it may help someone else having the same issue who tried lowering cloud settings but never thought to set them to “nothing”.  If lower FPS isn’t an issue for you, then it’s not an issue. For me, it was

Edited September 2, 2023 by Mike_CK

[Mausar]

I don't have Hind but Apache. I set No clouds and then I set clouds ceiling at desired altitude and cloud thickness  above 1km and shadows to low.

[Ramstein]

I am pissed and sick of the Oculus hourglass! one of these days I will get rid of Oculus and never ever have any product associated with those dirtbags...

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ramstein

[Mike_CK]

1 hour ago, Ramstein said:

I am pissed and sick of the Oculus hourglass! one of these days I will get rid of Oculus and never ever have any product associated with those dirtbags...

 

I was getting the hour glass for 8–10 seconds every minute. Turns out it was my anti virus active scan. Never had it again until the hind with my normal VR settings (and clouds). Lowering the cockpit texture to medium solves it. So- for me anyway- the spinning hour glass was a result of my card and not having enough VRAM and not oculus; doesn’t mean it’s the same on your end of course 

[Ramstein]

I adjusted some settings and will see how well it works in a few days... you would think with all the horsepower my computer has it would do well, even with just the RTX 2080-ti.

[Mike_CK]

10 hours ago, Ramstein said:

I adjusted some settings and will see how well it works in a few days... you would think with all the horsepower my computer has it would do well, even with just the RTX 2080-ti.

Take out the clouds! Lol

[Ramstein]

it stopped doing it for a month and now it's back. it isn't my freaking computer, only thing it can be is the software, software updates, VR Oculus updates, etc... and it don't happen in IL-2.

 

for the record, it goes hourglass every couple of minutes and returns to DCS, then hourglass with frozen screen, then back to DCS working, etc..etc..etc..

 

the latest Nvidia driver was the culprit. I rolled it back to the previous driver, and all looks like it is back to good.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Ramstein

[Mike_CK]

Mine does the same. I get the oculus spinning intermittent hourglass for about 8-10seconds and then it’s fine for 15 minutes or so. Happens more often if I’ve just restarted by computer so likely another program interferes

it Was a lot worse at one point, getting the hour glass every minute. I turned off the active scan on my McAfee and that fixed it. It will also do it if I have my FPs Locked at 45 and I fly over a graphic intense area. I guess it’s when it doesn’t have enough bits to send to you to match the FPS you want? Dunno. But try turning of active scans or any other crap like that and don’t “lock” frames on oculus tray tool (what I use anyway )

edit: btw, I have an AMD card

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mike_CK

[SharpeXB]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:39 PM, admiki said:

Anything above 24 FPS brain sees as a smooth movie.

Not true I don’t know where you’d get this idea. 24 fps was arrived at as a minimum standard in film, not anything else. Our brain easily interprets a higher frame rate to the point that we associate 24 fps with fiction (movies) and 60 fps video as reality. What we call the “soap opera effect” which many people find extremely annoying when applies to movies For gaming with all its fast motion, 24 fps is way too slow. Standards for film have nothing to do with gaming. 

[Mike_CK]

All i know is that I can tell the difference between 35 and 45 fps pretty damn easily. I notice the choppiness at 35. I can tell the difference between 45 and 60 only if I can switch back and forth and compare. If I just hop on, I can’t tell you whether I’m at 45 or 60. Anything above 60 for me is just for bragging rights 

“Hey guy! Whuuut? You only get 45fps per eye in VR? ….I’m running a Nova 3000 turbo overclocked neutron thermal induction processor with a GFX13000 liquid oxygen cooled quantum card and 256 gig of ram and I get like 120fps with graphics maxed.”. You know…it’s for THAT guy 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mike_CK

[KoN]

For Syria map i turn textures to medium ,

Ground textures to low , 

shadows low , 

ground shadows off , 

Syria map uses nearly all Vram . 12GB . 

Not tried clouds off yet , i have them set to standard . 

I get good FPS and smooth play today online in Syria map . 

The stutters will come from Vram being full .