I think i am abandoning vr :(

[Gunfreak]

I played DCS with G2 for almost 3 years and never really did any tweaking after the first set up.

Now I have the Crystal and I've spent a few days in semi confused tweaking stage, I asked in the right place. And yesterday I went from more or less unplayable to almost there, I suspect I'll have it just right by the end of the day or tomorrow. And after that I won't have to tweak much. If anything. Maybe increase graphics (tho my settings are already very higher) as DLSSS and vulkan comes.

[Chunk]

Nothing looks as good as flying with TrackIR on a giant 4K monitor with maxed settings, but for me, the immersion of VR, even with medium settings, outweighs the visuals. I’m just glad that people have the ability to choose, and do whatever makes them happy. I will say that dialing VR in was a pain in the butt, and it changes depending on what ED does with these patches, but it is so incredible when it works well. Have fun either way!

[Nedum]

DCS is something special if we talk about VR.

The engine isn't made for VR and much of the new stuff ruins the performance, even so you have nearly no visual benefit in VR.

VR in DCS is the way to learn how to life with less with nearly every patch. And in most cases you can't see in VR why there is such a big performance hit.

I thought at first the MT build will give us VR guys much more headroom, because the CPU will do all that kind of work for AI, but that hasn't happened.

If I am looking at different DCS Builds, the best for DCS was and is 2.56xxxx. How can that be if this was an ST build?

I wish ED would give DCS much more "VR-Love". I believe there is a huge headroom for a big performance gain.

I do really feel for all the guys who are unable to have fun with DCS in VR.

I myself can't play any Sim anymore with only a flat screen. The feeling to be placed directly in a car or plane is outstanding. Only real life could be better. There is no way back for me.

 

[Eugel]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:49 AM, MADLOU1 said:

When I was using my G2 VR with DCS, once I got all the tweaking done after every session, I was too worn out to fly 

What did you tweak after every session ?? 
Granted, the G2 drove me crazy in the beginning. But once I found my sweet spot, I haven´t tweaked anything in over a year now.

22 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

I am running 3500x3500 pr eye to get the quality I think is good. That is 12k pr eye. And add 72 fps (36 pr eye) and you know how demanding this is.

That is not 12k per eye. 12k is 12288 x 6480 pixels ! 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Eugel

[MADLOU1]

14 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

When everything is working well, VR is just insanely immersiove and fun.

I definitely agree and its so frustrating that I can play that "other" WW2 sim in VR with all the graphics settings maxed out with no problem but struggle with DCS in VR.  I know and understand that DCS was not originally designed for VR. Maybe they can make another version of DCS which is much more VR friendly? Maybe something with toned down map details if that would help?  I for one would gladly pay for such a version!

[dburne]

39 minutes ago, MADLOU1 said:

I definitely agree and its so frustrating that I can play that "other" WW2 sim in VR with all the graphics settings maxed out with no problem but struggle with DCS in VR.  I know and understand that DCS was not originally designed for VR. Maybe they can make another version of DCS which is much more VR friendly? Maybe something with toned down map details if that would help?  I for one would gladly pay for such a version!

Eye tracked DFR goes a long way in getting closer to that. Mine are very high with many settings maxed out.

The technology just needs to get in more and less costly headsets. Not sure when/if that might happen, it is still a huge niche within many niches really. VR seems to be a little stagnated at this time. It really needs a revitalization - and not necessarily from Meta.

[Eugel]

9 hours ago, MADLOU1 said:

I definitely agree and its so frustrating that I can play that "other" WW2 sim in VR with all the graphics settings maxed out with no problem but struggle with DCS in VR.  I know and understand that DCS was not originally designed for VR. Maybe they can make another version of DCS which is much more VR friendly? Maybe something with toned down map details if that would help?  I for one would gladly pay for such a version!

Interesting, for me, the "other" WWII sim made more trouble in VR than DCS. And max settings there don´t equal max settings in DCS.

But what would you need a toned down VR version for ? You can already tone down the map details a lot in the current version. Have you tried the "VR" preset ? 

[Gunfreak]

11 hours ago, MADLOU1 said:

I definitely agree and its so frustrating that I can play that "other" WW2 sim in VR with all the graphics settings maxed out with no problem but struggle with DCS in VR.  I know and understand that DCS was not originally designed for VR. Maybe they can make another version of DCS which is much more VR friendly? Maybe something with toned down map details if that would help?  I for one would gladly pay for such a version!

That other ww2 sim ran very badly for me in VR. Even a standard campaign mission would run terribly, even tho it had only like 30 planes in it.

While in DCS, I could run misses with 40 bombers and 40 fighters and it would run better than that other sim. And would look much better.

[MichaelJWP15]

VR is definitely still one for tweakers and PC nerds (and I put myself in that category)

I have had headsets since the Oculus DK1, currently on the Pimax Crystal, which I had shelved until just yesterday when I got the last piece of the puzzle from Pimax for 'dynamic foveated rendering' to work. This improved my framerate from about 35 to 60, which is remarkable. Basically only renders at max quality what you are looking at, which as expected, is a gamechanger.

I can't afford a 4090 top PC like many here, but with a 4070 I am not many steps below that, at what I think is a far more reasonable price.

Certainly don't blame anyone for giving up on VR, but ever since I first tried it in flight and racing sims, I could never go back to a flat 2D screen. The one exception for that is when I am practicing procedural and instrument GA flight in MSFS, which for me, still does not look good in VR.

- Michael

Intel Core i7 13700K | RTX 4070 | ASUS TUF Z690 | Pimax Crystal | Virpil/Warthog HOTAS

[MADLOU1]

4 hours ago, Eugel said:

But what would you need a toned down VR version for ? You can already tone down the map details a lot in the current version. Have you tried the "VR" preset ? 

Yes, I've tried the VR preset, and adjustments below the VR preset, but on my midrange computer(I5-12600K, 3060ti)  it still looks crappy with a low framerate on both ST and MT.   And yes, I know, I can do like several others have done and spend thousands of dollars upgrading my computer and VR headset just to play DCS but there is no way I'm going to do that when I can play all my other PC games (including my racing sims) fine with what I have.   I'll just fly DCS on my 4K 55 inch TV with trackir which runs beautifully with a very good framerate.  Hopefully, one day DCS will produce a core engine which will create a similar result without having to break the bank.

Also, I think its comical and a great disservice to potential customers that it continues to advertise with all its modules: 

"Recommended VR systems requirements (VR graphics settings): . . . CPU: Core i5+ at 3+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen VEGA 64; . . . ; Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 64 or better;"

I guess the folks at ED think "well, with this hardware you can still run the game at its lowest graphical settings at a couple frames a second, so why not recommend it?"   I sure would like someone with these specs who are getting good graphical quality along with a decent frame rate to let me know how they are doing it.

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by MADLOU1

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, MADLOU1 said:

Also, I think its comical and a great disservice to potential customers that it continues to advertise with all its modules

You can play with a 1080 with a rift s, but I agree, this needs updating to reflect modern hardware. The difficulty is there is no real consensus on what it the minimum GPU for DCS VR now other than "the only way to be sure is to get a 4090". My experience, and that of MichaelJWP15 above, suggests that a 4070 is enough for a decent experience with higher res headsets. 

[some1]

That may be a slightly controversial opinion, but I think an upgrade from G2 to quest pro (or Quest 3 soon) may be a more cost-effective option that buying a new GPU. G2 is hindered by its obsolete lenses. You're pushing a lot of pixels just to get decent visuals in the centre sweet spot, while everything around is still a blur, even though those pixels keep sucking computer power. Even the FFR tweaks don't solve it completely, as they degrade visuals and add shimmering if you apply some more aggressive settings.

Qpro has lower resolution, so less pixels to push, you can further cut the rendered area only to what you actually see through the lenses, and edge to edge clarity means that you don't really need to drive supersampling so high in the first place to get good and crisp visuals. It's not a plug & play device, still requires some tweaking and getting used to its quirks, but it's certainly easier to get good results with it than with G2.

Playing in 2D is also an option, nothing wrong with that.

Edited September 13, 2023 by some1

[freehand]

For me going from a G2 to the Questpro was like a free upgrade on my gtx card thrown in.

Edited September 14, 2023 by freehand

[The LT]

I bought a Pico 4 and packed up and put my Pimax 8kx up for sale... I'll occasionally fly in VR for fun but frankly, 4k 49' TV is getting me great fps and has 120hz refresh and I am happy with that. 

[dburne]

7 hours ago, freehand said:

For me going from a G2 to the Questpro was like a free upgrade on my gtx card thrown in.

 

Eye tracked DFR? Yep, big time.

[some1]

I don't even use eye tracking in Qpro. Though it may be beneficial with slower gpus.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, some1 said:

I don't even use eye tracking in Qpro. Though it may be beneficial with slower gpus.

It is beneficial with faster ones as well.

I use it in my Aero and 4090 with DCS and the performance gain was - huge!

[some1]

Because it's Aero and not Quest Pro. Much higher resolution = more gains from DFR.

[LucShep]

 

On 9/9/2023 at 9:37 PM, LucShep said:

I can run DCS 2.8 at 4K high settings in my 2D screen and, yes, it looks awesome. But can no longer go back to it after using VR.
The immersion with VR is simply too good, and there is no replacement for that.

I do have a major problem with VR in DCS that I can not make 2.8 MT run smooth, even after lots of tinkering and using every trick in the book, micro-stuttering is always present.
Using 2.8 ST the stuttering issues are almost gone, but then it runs so poor that settings have to be drastically decreased, to a point where it looks downright ugly. 
The problem got even worse after one of the 2.8 OB updates (in last May, I think?), and hasn't improved since.
Yes, we all know enjoyable VR in DCS is not cheap (etc, yata yata) but it should never be like this. It just got silly, ridiculous really.

My solution was to revert back to an older DCS release (version 2.5.6, in my sig) for VR.
It's like a dream if compared. Now VR in DCS looks absolutely stunning and runs really smooth. I can use higher settings, plus custom shaders and mods to it make look and run even better. No dreaded stuttering, performance is great. On top of that, I can even run my Reverb G1 Pro at 150% res., so it's at a point where I find it ideal.
Honestly, I don't care about losing the new clouds, or recent and upcoming modules (whatever), if all I invested in can finally be used the way I intended it in the first place.
I'll try newest versions again when Vulkan is finally released and VR with MT issues are gone (had enough of this BS) but, until then, I'm well served.

I definitely recommend trying that before you decide abandoning VR for DCS.

 

On 9/11/2023 at 5:10 AM, JesterIsDead said:

how do you run Oculus Quest 2? With OpenComposite?

Sorry @JesterIsDead only now noticed your post.

I don't have an Oculus VR headset, so can't specify best solution for you.
I use HP Reverb G1 Pro (WMR headset).

I use SteamVR and that's what DCS 2.5.6 opens by default. But one can run it instead with OpenXR (also with OpenXR Tools), if prefered.
For that, this mod will do the trick. 
You can use a mod-manager (such as OvGME) to install it into DCS 2.5.6. 
Or you can manually install it, by entering that mod's folder structure, copy all files inside its "Bin" folder, then paste them into the folder with same name in DCS 2.5.6 (i.e, where the game executable is) and overwrite files when prompted (better backup original files first). 

Edited September 20, 2023 by LucShep