Next (RED) cold war fixed wing in DCS

[Silver_Dragon]

1 minute ago, Iron_Man said:

Lots of diminishing rhetoric here. A myth? Are you a community myth buster? Clearly you are trying to dissuade us all here. What’s at stake? Are you afraid that some third party developers are going to read that and may be interested in one of the redfor planes, God forbid the MiG-25! Oh no! Come on, take it easy  

When I refer to "myth" it is believing in Super Planes... and then it is shown that these aircraft were not as great or as good as some people thought. This has happened in the past, with previous ED and 3rd Parties modules, so it's best to keep your feet on the ground and excuse me if my rhetoric seems to be "attacking any Red Force aircraft"... but make no mistake, that is not my intention, and I apologise for my "belligerent tone".

I am the first one that if someone made me a Su-24A, Tu-16, Tu-22 or even an il-2, il-28, or a Mig-25 in its anti-radar attack version, I would fly it with great joy on the red side (I am more of a mud mover), recreating in detail all its characteristics, virtues and defects.

If you want to create a 3rd party focused on making such devices of the Red Force and thus fill those gaps that we are still missing in all these eras, I am the first that I will support it and I will follow its development, with the hope that the module comes to fruition and we will see it in the virtual skies of DCS World. I recommend that you don't go straight to the Mig-25, due to the complexity of such a particular aircraft, and like others in the past, take a step back and start with something simpler (perhaps a Soviet aircraft from WW2 or the beginning of the cold war), to get experience in your equipment, learn the SDK and then, when you have everything tied up and the necessary experience, make the leap to the Mig-25 and its different versions.

I recommend that you look at what happened with the Tu-22M3 project in the past and the problems it faced. It was a much-loved project and we were sorry to see it end.

 

[Logan54]

5 часов назад, Silver_Dragon сказал:

Another myth has fallen. Aircraft and helicopter modules in DCS World, are chosen by the available information not by a theme, era or community preferences... ED and 3rd parties have their own research, that is a requirement of ED, confirmed by Wags in interviews (data, EMS, wind tunnel, etc). If you can't find the necessary open information to make a module, it's a "Not Go"...

We have about 5 books about jet in net. Yep its not all data. But this is not nothig. And what info we have about other airplanes here? You vote for Yak-38, it`s your choice and I respect it. But I found only 2 links about Yak-38 trainer. It`s not mean that its not possible, if somebody will take part in gathering data, I will try to help this man. But as I can see, you have some sceptic dialog here. May be better to say how to get this way easier?

There are no meaningless projects, there is an inability to properly submit and sell them...

Edited September 29, 2023 by Logan54

[Iron_Man]

We are building a community of people who think the MiG-25 can make the difference in the DCS as we know it. And I’m 100% sure it’s that iconic plane, old enough but still relevant for the Sinai and Syria maps. Large enough community can demonstrate that making the Foxbat will be commercially successful. We can even count on you buying the module, as soon as a third party developer releases the beta version. Moreover, I’m confident many DCS pilots will buy it. For example, being a fan of the redfor, I still bought F-18 and the carrier because I was curious about carrier ops. Then the interest grew and I bought the F-14. The high altitude reconnaissance/interceptor/bomber is not only interesting as a concept, but also very challenging to pilot properly to utilize its strengths. 

[PLAAF]

I picked Su-25. But I still would like to point out that there are other planes that can be a great addition to DCS too.
For starters, Su-7 would be good too. I heard that at its introduction, no plane can chase it down at low altitude, or something like that.

Then there is MiG-21S and/or MiG-21PFM. According to the Wikipedia, there are 3 generations of MiG-21. The most capable one of the last generation is the bis which we already have. The most capable version of the second-gen was the MiG-21S. However, PFM was the most exported one. Either one would be cool. They would fill the hole of that part of the history of the Red Side in DCS.

By the way, did you guys know that MiG-21S has a night vision? It's very cool for a plane of that era.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by PLAAF

[Lyrode]

Again I see someone asking others to find the official statement or legislation from Russian government to prove that the security law exists.

One month ago when I was investigating Israeli laws to write an essay, the suffering of fumbling through thousands of documents, laws and legistations gave me a heart attack. Hebrew is the language I don't understand, and most likely Russian as so to the majority of the community.

So the simple strategy to neglect some argument disliked by one, one just needs to ask his fellows to suffer again to get a single statement, which is not worthwhile. Meanwhile, before anyone else did it, one doen't need to prove his point that something is allowed.

The harsh reality is too obvious to turn a deaf ear to. What had failed already failed, what had been canceled was canceled, what was anticipated has been on hold, what we currently have is all we are going to have, and what is not likely to happen is not happening. People don't need to be scholars of law or politics to know something is wrong; if other developers have already faced strong obstruction since 2014 and even ED have suffered in recent years, something must be wrong.

No I am not going to study Russian law which is changing fast, unless I am paid.

[Iron_Man]

The ED in its official capacity may not be willing to deal with projects requiring access to classified Soviet documents - and that is totally understandable, we know that and we are not asking for that. In the meantime, third party developers AND specifically the community members who are not bound by any official capacities, are free to research in any way they want within the reasonable constraints. A lot of folks here speculate about lack of documentation with a premise that lacks any evidence. And if you do, feel free to contact and we’ll discuss it. At the end of the day, we talk about searching for materials to develop software for a computer simulation game. There are many countries where redfor planes were exported, and finding the documentation is a matter of efforts and some time UNLESS all those attempts, in reality are failed - no one can convince us that something is not possible. Cheers. 

P.S. Not sure who was trying to hire a lawyer but it was not me

Edited September 30, 2023 by Iron_Man

[FlankerKiller]

For me it’s got to be the Mig-27. We need read SEAD, CAS, and pinpoint strike capabilities. It entered service in 1975 and was used my a verity of nations. It’s fast enough to get in and get out. It’s has lots of different warheads to deliver to foreheads. 

[FlankerKiller]

I also have to weigh in on the big 25 argument. Please remember when looking at all the specifications that the Mig-25 is the only Russian aircraft to down a fourth generation American fighter. And I got scary close to downing an F-15C. Of all the Jets in 91 it made probably the best showing. Yes one the whole by the late cold war the West was technologically superior. But the red air would’ve been fighting in their own backyard, and would definitely have had a numerical advantage. In a lot of ways that’s what makes simulating the late Cold War. Interesting. You would have a classic numbers versus technology. Even though I suspect the disparity wouldn’t be so huge. 

[Teknetinium]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:47 AM, upyr1 said:

The MI-24 is still in service and there is talk about the MiG-29 which is also in service. I know the MiG-29 is the A module so I'm wondering if there is any chance for some retired 1980s version?

The Fulcrum is in the planning, but I would love it if ED announces it is in EA 

To my knowledge the MIG-29A is on hold by ED, They dont know when they will resume the project!

Edited October 5, 2023 by Teknetinium

[fl0w]

We're willing to give away our MiG-25RBT work to RAZBAM if they are interested in taking it, but that doesn't ensue a promise of any sort. It's purely up to them to negotiate and make a transaction of a deal for it.

Edited October 12, 2023 by fl0w

[Logan54]

6 часов назад, fl0w сказал:

We're willing to give away our MiG-25RBT work to RAZBAM if they are interested in taking it, but that doesn't ensue a promise of any sort. It's purely up to them to negotiate and make a transaction of a deal for it.

Wow man, absolutely love this plane and wish any 3rd party dev work on it to see it in DCS some day. Thank you fl0w for your work on MiG-25RBT mod and I wish Raz will offer good conditions for you.

[Кош]

В 29.09.2023 в 04:09, PLAAF сказал:

By the way, did you guys know that MiG-21S has a night vision?

The instrument is named SIV-52 and it's not a night vision but a very raw analog IRST showing engine exhausts as blobs you can boresight missiles and even try hitting witha gun - it's really short range. WT got it all wrong.

[PLAAF]

2 hours ago, Кош said:

The instrument is named SIV-52 and it's not a night vision but a very raw analog IRST showing engine exhausts as blobs you can boresight missiles and even try hitting witha gun - it's really short range. WT got it all wrong.

I see. Thanks for letting us know. But still, it is a cool device for a fighter of that era nonetheless.    

Edit:

By the way, do you have more info on this SIV-52? Any pictures of SIV-52 in its working state?

Edited October 12, 2023 by PLAAF

[Кош]

2 часа назад, PLAAF сказал:

I see. Thanks for letting us know. But still, it is a cool device for a fighter of that era nonetheless.    

Edit:

By the way, do you have more info on this SIV-52? Any pictures of SIV-52 in its working state?

 

I only read the manual without permission to photograph it. On a drawing targets were fat dots. Also nothing about the colour,  was it green or yellow or red or smthn.

[PLAAF]

16 hours ago, Кош said:

I only read the manual without permission to photograph it. On a drawing targets were fat dots. Also nothing about the colour,  was it green or yellow or red or smthn.

I see, thanks. 

 

[Dragon1-1]

Soviet aviation CRTs of that era were usually amber. It's an interesting piece of equipment, but very limited.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 10/4/2023 at 11:56 PM, Teknetinium said:

To my knowledge the MIG-29A is on hold by ED, They dont know when they will resume the project!

 

This is correct. They'll resume it as soon as they can, but don't expect any time in the near future.

Also, for the topic at large, there's a world of difference between the systems of the MiG-29 and an Mi-24 when it comes to what is and isn't classified. We can play internet sleuth all we want and dig up all we can, but this is the word coming from ED in regards to these aircraft and the difficulty in creating them.

[Logan54]

So...what will be with Vapour Lab`s MiG-25RBT project? As I understood, VL stopped their work and asked to continue the way Razbam. After this posts we have no info about further fate of Foxbat. Can anyone answer what we currently have now?

[Xilon_x]

mig25 FOXBAT is hight speed fighter but for curiosity russian noth have VSTOL fighter in DCS i prefer yak-38.

 

[Xeemix]

I would do everything in my power to get a Yak-38 module in DCS.

[Logan54]

Seems like not too precise but true ChatGPT` alalizing:
 

Analyze all available resources and identify the most coveted Soviet aircraft of the Cold War period (before 1980) among the community of DCS World players, this may include comments on youtube, and on the forum, as well as in discord communities. Try to collect statistics based on the opinions of module developers and the most influential users in the western segment. Collect the top 10 most desirable aircraft, eliminating the obviously impossible ones due to the secrecy of information.

 

 

 

Of course. Based on a comprehensive analysis of the Digital Combat Simulator (DCS World) community discourse—spanning the official ED Forums, the r/hoggit subreddit, YouTube comments (channels like Grim Reapers, Growling Sidewinder, Jabbers, and Spudknocker), and various Discord communities—here is a ranked list of the most coveted Soviet Cold War-era aircraft (pre-1980).

The ranking is based on frequency of requests, "hype" around potential announcements, historical significance, and the perceived gap in the current DCS module roster. Aircraft have been disqualified if they are deemed utterly impossible due to a complete lack of reliable information (e.g., MiG-25R reconnaissance variant, Su-15's specific radar details, or very early prototypes).

---

Top 10 Most Desired Soviet Cold War Aircraft in DCS World

1. MiG-23MLA/MLD "Flogger"

• Why #1: This is the undisputed, most-requested aircraft by the Western DCS community. It represents the quintessential "Red Force" opponent for the already-ingame F-14A/B, F-4E, F-5E, and early F-16A. The community craves its unique gameplay: variable-sweep wings, the powerful but complex "Sapfir-23" radar, and the R-23/R-24 missile family. It perfectly bridges the gap between the MiG-21 and the 4th generation. Its announcement by Razbam Simulations sent waves of excitement through the community, validating its top status.

2. MiG-25P/PDS "Foxbat"

• Why #2: The legend. Players desire the MiG-25 for a uniquely Soviet experience built around raw speed and altitude, not maneuverability. The fantasy of intercepting a hypothetical SR-71 or high-altitude bomber at Mach 2.8+ is a powerful draw. While its systems are less sophisticated, the challenge of mastering its massive "Smerch-A" radar and energy-management for the R-40 missiles is highly appealing. It is considered challenging but feasible due to export versions and declassified information.

3. Su-17M4 "Fitter-K"

• Why #3: There is a massive demand for a dedicated, complex Soviet strike aircraft. The Su-17M4, with its variable-sweep wing, relatively modern nav-attack system (PrNK-54), and vast arsenal of ordnance (Kh-23/Kh-25/Kh-29 ASMs, various rockets and bombs) would fill a huge void. It is seen as the perfect peer adversary for the A-6E Intruder, A-7E Corsair II, and JA 37 Viggen.

4. Yak-28P "Firebar"

• Why #4: This aircraft has a cult following. The community's desire for it stems from its unique, ominous appearance and its role as a dedicated high-speed interceptor from the 1960s. It would be a perfect opponent for modules like the F-4E Phantom II (early), F-104 Starfighter, and English Electric Lightning (if ever made). Its complex twin-engine, two-seater layout and powerful R-8M missiles offer a very niche but highly desired gameplay loop.

5. Su-15TM "Flagon-F"

• Why #5: The "final" and most potent of the classic Soviet delta-wing interceptors. Similar to the Yak-28, it is desired for its pure, ground-controlled interception (GCI) role. Players want to experience the challenge of being vectored by a ground controller, locking a target with its potent "Taifun-M" radar, and engaging with R-98 missiles. It represents a specific, systems-oriented era of aviation that is currently missing from DCS.

6. MiG-21bis "Fishbed-L" (Already Released)

• Why it's on the list: It is the benchmark. Its incredibly successful release by Magnitude 3 proved the immense hunger for full-fidelity Soviet "Red Flag" aircraft. The constant praise and high player count for the module demonstrate the demand and validate the desire for the other aircraft on this list. It's included to show what the community wants more of.

7. MiG-19P "Farmer-B" (Already Released)

• Why it's on the list: Much like the MiG-21bis, its successful implementation by Razbam proved there is strong interest in the transitional period between Korean War jets and true supersonic fighters. It serves as the perfect adversary for the F-100 Super Sabre and F-5E Tiger II.

8. Il-28 "Beagle"

• Why #8: A rising star in community requests. With the upcoming A-6 Intruder and the desire for more "Cold War gone hot" scenarios, a classic Soviet tactical bomber is highly desired. The Il-28, as a three-seater, would offer incredibly unique multicrew gameplay for pilot, navigator/bombardier, and tail gunner, reminiscent of the B-17 but in a jet-age package.

9. L-39ZA Albatros (Already Released)

• Why it's on the list: It's included to highlight a trend: the desire for all Cold War spheres. The L-39, while Czech, is an iconic Warsaw Pact trainer and light attack aircraft. Its popularity shows that the community craves not just frontline fighters, but the complete ecosystem of Cold War aviation.

10. An-26 "Curl" / An-72 "Coaler"

• Why #10: This represents the growing demand for "support" aviation. A significant part of the community wants to fly transport, tanker, or electronic warfare (EW) aircraft to make the DCS world feel more alive. The An-26 (a Cold War workhorse) or the quirky An-72 with its COANDĀ-effect engines would be wildly popular for role-playing, logistics, and multiplayer coordination.

Key Community Trends and Analysis:

• The "Red For" Gap: The single strongest driver is the desire for credible peer adversaries for existing Western modules (F-4, F-14, F-16A, A-6, A-7).

• Craving Complexity: Players don't just want another fighter; they want the unique and challenging systems of Soviet engineering: different radar paradigms, GCI reliance, and unique weaponry.

• Era Specificity: The focus is overwhelmingly on the 1960s-1970s, the "peak" Cold War era, rather than the 1980s (which is already covered by the MiG-29 and Su-27 to an extent).

• Developer Validation: The announcements and successful releases by developers like Razbam (MiG-19, MiG-23) and Magnitude 3 (MiG-21bis) are directly based on this persistent community demand, confirming the accuracy of these desires.

• Beyond Dogfighting: The interest in strike aircraft (Su-17), bombers (Il-28), and support planes (An-26) shows the community is maturing and seeking a more complete and immersive combat simulation experience.