reported Spotting dot bugs in VR

[Bounti30]

24 minutes ago, Robi Hobby said:

Just tested.

Instant Action -> F-16 -> Caucasus -> Free Flight.  (4 F-16 in Ground Attack)
The Spotting Dots in VR haven't gotten any better. They're Huge!  
Why can't you turn it off? ED, aren't you listening? What's wrong with YOU? Why do you want to destroy DCS World!  Sorry, I'm not putting up with this drama anymore.
I'm taking another break until the Next update!
I want the OPTION to turn it ON and OFF! 

Quest 3 / RTX3090 /12700K  64GB

exactly the same
but I believe that you and I will never be listened to.
There is a deeper purpose, I don't know what it is, but of which we are not a part.
for my part my confidence in ED is exhausted.
I'm happy with an old version which works very well and that's it.

[Qcumber]

Just tested it with Quest Pro and Virtual Desktop at Godlike. QVFR centre at x1.1 and periphery at x0.5. The dots look better in the centre Res but there is still the switch to a larger, blurred smudge in the periphery. Not game breaking, but it would be nice to have the dots remain the same. I'm not sure if that is possible though. 

[Tippis]

4 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

Just tested it with Quest Pro and Virtual Desktop at Godlike. QVFR centre at x1.1 and periphery at x0.5. The dots look better in the centre Res but there is still the switch to a larger, blurred smudge in the periphery. Not game breaking, but it would be nice to have the dots remain the same. I'm not sure if that is possible though. 

That's probably pretty hard to get around in quadview if the dot size is a direct function of the (local) rendering resolution.

The size in particular would have to be targeting different sizes depending on where it is and it being a blurred smudge is almost a feature rather than a fault, so it would rather come down to how QV is implemented and what can be adjusted on the fly as objects move in and out of the focus area.

[Qcumber]

2 minutes ago, Tippis said:

That's probably pretty hard to get around in quadview if the dot size is a direct function of the (local) rendering resolution.

The size in particular would have to be targeting different sizes depending on where it is and it being a blurred smudge is almost a feature rather than a fault, so it would rather come down to how QV is implemented and what can be adjusted on the fly as objects move in and out of the focus area.

The way I deal with is like seeing something out of the corner of your eye. Peripheral resolution (outside to fovea on the retina) is lower so your eyes see peripheral objects as more blurred and "blocky". Maybe it is more realistic!? I suppose it depends on the size of the centre resolution in QVFR. 

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, Tippis said:

That's probably pretty hard to get around in quadview if the dot size is a direct function of the (local) rendering resolution.

The size in particular would have to be targeting different sizes depending on where it is and it being a blurred smudge is almost a feature rather than a fault, so it would rather come down to how QV is implemented and what can be adjusted on the fly as objects move in and out of the focus area.

I dont use QV and I also noticed problems with angles, the dots sometimes disappear, leaving the LOD of the model, depending on where we look and from what angle. Sometimes it happens in just one eye. It is a rare symptom but it does happen.

Edited October 31, 2024 by YoYo

[josef]

Visual combat is becoming very difficult again.
Last version was fine, now I can't see the target again.

 

The FPS is a bit higher with QV+PimaxPlay, but it's harder to visualize the spitting dot than with STEAMVR

Edited November 1, 2024 by josef

[AhSoul]

17 hours ago, YoYo said:

Resolution (upscaling) 3120x3150 pxt, Quest Pro. My image is very sharp, so it is generally equivalent to high resolutions, dot is better but still too big as many as have said here after testing this patch.

Interesting. I'm not finding it too big on a Quest 3

[AhSoul]

14 hours ago, Robi Hobby said:

Just tested.

Instant Action -> F-16 -> Caucasus -> Free Flight.  (4 F-16 in Ground Attack)
The Spotting Dots in VR haven't gotten any better. They're Huge!  
Why can't you turn it off? ED, aren't you listening? What's wrong with YOU? Why do you want to destroy DCS World!  Sorry, I'm not putting up with this drama anymore.
I'm taking another break until the Next update!
I want the OPTION to turn it ON and OFF! 

Quest 3 / RTX3090 /12700K  64GB

It's clearly way better. The big black squares are gone. Are you sure you updated?

[Qcumber]

15 hours ago, Robi Hobby said:

Just tested.

Instant Action -> F-16 -> Caucasus -> Free Flight.  (4 F-16 in Ground Attack)
The Spotting Dots in VR haven't gotten any better. They're Huge!  
Why can't you turn it off? ED, aren't you listening? What's wrong with YOU? Why do you want to destroy DCS World!  Sorry, I'm not putting up with this drama anymore.
I'm taking another break until the Next update!
I want the OPTION to turn it ON and OFF! 

Quest 3 / RTX3090 /12700K  64GB

What is your resolution set to? At lower resolutions the dots will look much larger. I have mine set to about 3500x3500 (equivalent) and the dots are small and "realistic".

[I am using QVFR though which creates issues I have stated elsewhere in this post]

[YoYo]

47 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

What is your resolution set to? At lower resolutions the dots will look much larger. I have mine set to about 3500x3500 (equivalent) and the dots are small and "realistic".

[I am using QVFR though which creates issues I have stated elsewhere in this post]

3500pxt? Wow, but do you use any kind of motion reprojection? For me is too high to have stable FPS, but I have ASW=off and have stable 72FPS.

[Qcumber]

10 minutes ago, YoYo said:

3500pxt? Wow, but do you use any kind of motion reprojection? For me is too high to have stable FPS, but I have ASW=off and have stable 72FPS.

I use QVFR so the centre resolution is set so the whole screen equivalent would be about 3500x3500. The periphery is set to the equivalent of about 1500x1500. This means that the centre is very sharp and small dots but the periphery is less sharp and larger, blurred dots. I can maintain 72 fps with this setup in most situations. Without QVFR I would need to run at 36 fps with reprojection. 

[YoYo]

Ahh ok, QVFR is different topic, personally I dont like it ;). Ok, end off topic.

[MoleUK]

This is why the feedback on spotting dots can be so mixed.

The ground units make them dissappear at times.

These are two copies of the same short track, one with the ground units simply removed. Compare and contrast. You will immediately see the problem.

This happens both in flatscreen and in VR.

dots start invis.trk dots start invis - ground units removed.trk

Edited November 1, 2024 by MoleUK

[Robi Hobby]

Please try it in VR.

Instant Action -> F-16 -> Caucasus -> Free Flight.  ( 4 x F-16 in Ground Attack)

There are 3 F-16s flying in front of you. Don't give any Thrust and activate the Air Brake. Watch how the 3 F-16s get smaller and smaller and then, bang, there are the Big Black Squares.

           

The same applies to the Ground Targets.    I use MSAA 2x 

I want the OPTION to turn it ON and OFF!    NO Please

 

Quest 3 / RTX3090  / i7 12700K  64GB 

[Bounti30]

I use a 4128x2112 72Hz résolution with my quest 2.

x1.3 in oculus tray tools, no asw.

MSAx2 ,Textures High, Visibility High, Sharpening 0.4 and dots OFF in DCS

With the last update, dots are awfuls.

I rollback to 2.9.5.55918 and everything is much better.

I am convinced that the new spotting dots is a mistake, but those who are of the same opinion will never be heard.

Edited November 1, 2024 by Bounti30

[Robi Hobby]

I'm just wondering if ED is serious. They need to update like in 2.9.5 and fix this Bug. Seriously, who wants to see Black Squares in the Air and Ground? 

 

No Bug fix = No more Money from me.

No Iraq 

No Kola

No Eurofighter

No Tornado

No Bo-105

Edited November 1, 2024 by Robi Hobby

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, Bounti30 said:

I use a 4128x2112 72Hz résolution with my quest 2.

x1.3 in oculus tray tools, no asw.

MSAx2 ,Textures High, Visibility High, Sharpening 0.4 and dots OFF in DCS

With the last update, dots are awfuls.

I rollback to 2.9.5.55918 and everything is much better.

I am convinced that the new spotting dots is a mistake, but those who are of the same opinion will never be heard.

 

Currently the dot is smaller than in the last patch. The whole thing is WIP still.

[Brother_Leb]

My 2 cents:
Previous version dots = much too big (by roughly a factor of 4x).

Current version dots = better but still too big (maybe a factor of 2x for me). Size of the dot at a distance is tricky, but close in it is most noticeable when the low LOD model gets overlaid with the dot and obscures the aircraft so that things like aspect and planform cannot be picked out. This happens less but still happens in the current version. I'd say around 3NM, but have not done careful testing. I do not see dots outside of about 15NM unless I use VR punch zoom.

I can live with this. Not ideal, but manageable (for me).

I understand the amount of variables that are being juggled here and that a lot depends on user hardware and settings (esp. resolution per eye for VR). So, while I don't agree with the angry tone, I do agree with those who would like the option to just turn the dots off (or, barring that, decrease size to 1 pixel).

My settings: (see attached screenshots, NOTE: running my headset at native resolution, 2160x2160 per eye)

My hardware:

• HMD: Reverb G2, 90hz
• GPU: 4080 (ASUS TUF)
• CPU: i7-13700K 3.4Ghz
• RAM: 64GB (2x32 DDR 5)

[Tippis]

3 hours ago, MoleUK said:

This is why the feedback on spotting dots can be so mixed.

The ground units make them dissappear at times.

These are two copies of the same short track, one with the ground units simply removed. Compare and contrast. You will immediately see the problem.

This happens both in flatscreen and in VR.

dots start invis.trk 3.16 MB · 2 downloads dots start invis - ground units removed.trk 3.01 MB · 3 downloads

 

Quoting this just to highlight it. A pretty darn important complication if it happens universally — massively important if it only happens selectively.

[MoleUK]

1 minute ago, Tippis said:

Quoting this just to highlight it. A pretty darn important complication if it happens universally — massively important if it only happens selectively.

Thread on it here now, with some helpful screenshots to illustrate how dramatic an impact it has.

 

[Qcumber]

4 hours ago, Bounti30 said:

I use a 4128x2112 72Hz résolution with my quest 2.

x1.3 in oculus tray tools, no asw.

So your overall resolution is about 2700 (2112x1.3). Try 1.5 in OTT to give you about 3200 and see how the dots look. Anything less than about 3200 pixels looks quite mushy. 

[Bounti30]

48 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

So your overall resolution is about 2700 (2112x1.3). Try 1.5 in OTT to give you about 3200 and see how the dots look. Anything less than about 3200 pixels looks quite mushy. 

Why should I change my settings which were working very well.
It was beautiful and fluid, I couldn't ask for more.
And now it is......
My VR headset and video card didn't magically transform.
Having the choice not to use this technology is all I ask for.
Me and many others.

[Parkour]

I just want the ability to turn OFF Improved Spotting Dots, or just Spotting Dots in general.

Go play IL-2 and see how its done. It's simple. STOP RENDERING BIG BLACK DOTS OVER THE AIRCRAFT AND GROUND TARGETS.

Even the parachutes now have black dots, same as the aircraft, same as the ships on the sea.. thus.. they all look the same.  It's horrible in VR.

[draconus]

From total failure of 2.9.8 to just a failure of 2.9.9 spotting dots in VR changed from big blobs to smaller squares (2x2px). Still too large and too visible for any resemblance to RL. Ugly, unrealistic, unneeded.

F-16C rear aspect visible up to over 10nmi. Closing in the black square disappears at 1.7nmi and finally I can see 1 faint pixel, just as it's supposed to look. Where's the logic in this madness? When the aircraft flies away and gets to 1 pixel, gets barely visible at 1.7nmi and then suddenly big black square appears instead and I can see the target very clearly as it flies away for another 10nmi? How can the aircraft grow with distance and then stay the same size for 10nmi? Any dev can share the maths or physical phenomena behind this?

Please turn it off, get away with it. It's a simulator. I don't need helpers. It looked good for years - why do you mess with it?

PS. This was with PD 1.4-1.5.

Edited November 3, 2024 by draconus

[draconus]

Some reported dot size is dependent on internal rendering resolution, not just the headset or its native resolution, so I tried PD 1.0-1.3 and to my surprise the dots are 1 pixel size like they were in old good times Not gonna cry over PD at 1.3 now - still acceptable for a workaround and temporary solution. Please fix this dependency too.