resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[Zakson85]

Thank you! I'm going to watch it.. Ouch video from 2020.. Well, let's see what has changed in 4 years

Edited September 12, 2024 by Zakson85

[303_Kermit]

28 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

90% of DCS players have never played online. So yeah AI behavior and such aside this is a predominantly single player game. So when it comes to this visibility issue I think it’s just not a high priority since SP players can actually do anything they like there, use labels or dots or whatever. If DCS had a bigger focus on MP the dots themselves would be a mission setting. There are so many other hacks possible in this game, it’s clearly not focused on MP. 

 

Do you have some valuable Statistics, or you just guessing? If you base on personal experience then I'll base on mine saying that 100% DCS players play mostly online, since Offline is no really an alternative.

I'm not sure if ... ED knows what are true numbers. 

Mine word against yours sir. that is one

Two:
In Digital Combat Simulator - (I suppose title suggest that Game has something to do with aerial warfare) - seeing a planes around you is something important. I don't think that Zakson is overreacting.
 

 

Statement comes from yt video based on another yt video based on .... It's not valid source. Statement, that "90% of our users!" - is not the same as 90% of DCS players. in fact it may be some very small number.

Edited September 12, 2024 by 303_Kermit

[SharpeXB]

24 minutes ago, 303_Kermit said:

Do you have some valuable Statistics, or you just guessing?

Check out the video above 

[303_Kermit]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Check out the video above 

Read my post till the end.

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, 303_Kermit said:

Read my post till the end.

Yes, not sure what your point is. You say it’s “not a valid source” in the video? That’s ED’s Global Business Development Director speaking, I think he knows the customer base. Did you actually watch it?

[draconus]

14 hours ago, Zakson85 said:

What do you think is the reason for this decline in popularity?

Can be anything. Last year this month there was decline too, holidays. Can be RZ/ED related, can depend on new module releases or lack of them...

[draconus]

14 hours ago, Zakson85 said:

It doesn't sound like a great single player game.

You make it sound like nothing is working, literally UNPLAYABLE. There were always some bugs but not showstoppers. Campaigns and missions work mostly fine when maintained in ever changing DCS environment.

[BIGNEWY]

folks please keep this thread for spotting feedback 

thank you 

[Zakson85]

25 minutes ago, draconus said:

You make it sound like nothing is working, literally UNPLAYABLE.

Two things irritate me about DCS so much that I created an account on this mutual admiration forum. Disappearing dots, no matter what size they will ultimately be. They are not to disappear for external reasons. Stupid AI flying on rails with a simplified flight model. 2 little things that are core to me. Everything else is outstanding or acceptable.

ps.

I have been giving feedback since April, I record videos and explain how to cause the problem. in return he gets moving grass and trees just a little joke.

 

[303_Kermit]

And that concludes the show. The true problem is not how big are the dots, but why the hell they disappear. 

And there's even bigger question: Why nobody reports "We took it as our top priority, since the problem makes game in bigger perspective unplayable, or playable in very limited scenario options MP and SP".

And just how Bignewy mentioned. Stick to the subject gents.

Edited September 13, 2024 by 303_Kermit

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, Zakson85 said:

Two things irritate me about DCS so much that I created an account on this mutual admiration forum. Disappearing dots, no matter what size they will ultimately be. They are not to disappear for external reasons. Stupid AI flying on rails with a simplified flight model. 2 little things that are core to me. Everything else is outstanding or acceptable.

ps.

I have been giving feedback since April, I record videos and explain how to cause the problem. in return he gets moving grass and trees just a little joke.

 

We listen to a lot of feedback, and there are lots of different opinions here on the forum. Please understand your opinion or requests may not always be satisfied and that can lead to frustration, but what ever happens please keep to our rules and keep the feedback constructive. 

Again please keep to the spotting topic here. 

thank you 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, 303_Kermit said:

The true problem is not how big are the dots, but why the hell they disappear. 

The two are related and an inevitable consequence of the whole concept.

- Dots need to be bigger than the aircraft because if they were smaller there’d be no point in using them.

- At some range or size the dots will stop rendering when you don’t need them and then you’ll see them vanish.

If you don’t want to see this effect don’t use dots. The dot labels are nearly the same thing but they don’t vanish, plus they’re configurable for size and such. I’m not sure why the game needs another option.

[draconus]

9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

don’t use dots.

How? You can't turn them off.

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, draconus said:

How? You can't turn them off.

Well no there’s not a true off function. That comment was for ED. There should be an actual Off setting since the current Off merely enables the 2.8 version. Using 4K that effectively means you can’t see them so it’s pretty much an “Off”

[303_Kermit]

34 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The two are related and an inevitable consequence of the whole concept.

- Dots need to be bigger than the aircraft because if they were smaller there’d be no point in using them.

- At some range or size the dots will stop rendering when you don’t need them and then you’ll see them vanish.

If you don’t want to see this effect don’t use dots. The dot labels are nearly the same thing but they don’t vanish, plus they’re configurable for size and such. I’m not sure why the game needs another option.

Big problem with your feedback is, that you apparently don't understand the problem. 
Can you please allow yourself to watch the Video below? It was already posted by @Zakson85
@SharpeXB please be so kind and stop writing nonsense. Start from understanding the problem.
 

 

Edited September 13, 2024 by 303_Kermit

[BIGNEWY]

2 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

@BIGNEWY I have been quietly watching the development of the spotting dot for quite a while now. From when it started with a big black square for VR users to what it is now.
Quick and short feedback from me as a Varjo Aero user:

The current implementation of the spotting dot is "spot on" As I said, using the Varjo Aero, it works just great. Also the transition between the VR zoom and the regular FOV is seamless and almost perfect. I am pretty satisfied with what we have now.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty happy currently however it does vary between systems, resolutions and hardware, so we need to try and tweak it some more, hopefully to make as many people as happy as possible. It is still being discussed and tweaked internally, before I went away on holiday we had another round of internal testing and feedback. I hope we can share more news soon. 

[KoN]

On 9/11/2024 at 2:14 AM, SharpeXB said:

DLAA isn’t as good at showing the dots as MSAA from what I see. Truth is I think it looks better since it doesn’t flicker like MSAA. But it puts you at a disadvantage. Again that might be due to changing the native resolution via upscaling. What happens if you run VR without upscaling?

I've tried all of it . MSAA off and on x 2 x 4  and DLAA and DLSS I've tried all of it, hours spent testing . Some people see all in VR crystal light headsets some say they don't see the Dots either in a crystal light . So some - thing not right .

Now I hear contacts will just disappear if over lots of ground targets .??? 

Before we had a big black blob and yes that was way too big in VR but now that black blob has totally gone with out any hint of a contact . So not sure what to say . Just tested in another combat sim with openXR and I can see very clearly air targets against the backgrounds .  And i can even tell what type of airframe and what direction its going . 

[SharpeXB]

23 minutes ago, 303_Kermit said:

Big problem with your feedback is, that you apparently don't understand the problem. 

Ok agree. That’s indeed a different issue.
I watched the video and yeah that shows a clear problem

I hope that was made with the old spotting dots because those are huge!

Edited September 13, 2024 by SharpeXB

[KoN]

38 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Well no there’s not a true off function. That comment was for ED. There should be an actual Off setting since the current Off merely enables the 2.8 version. Using 4K that effectively means you can’t see them so it’s pretty much an “Off”

So if we use 2.8 dot system the 4k users cant see them . But if we use 2.9 dot system VR users cant see them . lol . 

 I have SIX different flight sims on my PC . DCS is the worst for spotting in VR  for me .  . on TV 1440p i can see all and the dots are quite good even at 4k resolution.

But my headset I cant see anything now but this is only in DCS not any other flight sims I have . Even with air contact against blue sky its very difficult too see . 

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, KoN said:

So if we use 2.8 dot system the 4k users cant see them . But if we use 2.9 dot system VR users cant see them . lol .

Yeah and users are free to exploit this at will online.  

[breetai]

I am using Pimax Crystal and I haven't been able to spot since the July update. Multiplayer is impossible unless I can find a server that allows labels, which is not how I want to play.

[Zakson85]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

There should be an actual Off setting since the current Off merely enables the 2.8 version. Using 4K that effectively means you can’t see them so it’s pretty much an “Off”

in dcs from version 2.9.6 this option does not change anything.

 

there was a discussion on this topic here.

 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Zakson85 said:

in dcs from version 2.9.6 this option does not change anything.

Last I heard turning the Spotting Dots Off just reverts the feature back to the 2.8 version. There is no true Off setting. You need to restart DCS for this to take effect. If you aren’t seeing any effect that may be why. 

Edited September 13, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Red_Dragon]

I never saw this effect even after restart

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, Red_Dragon said:

I never saw this effect even after restart

Using VR or monitor?