Flying the Pattern at H4

[Roosterfeet]

I'm 2 missions in and the campaign is great so far but I'm pretty sure I'm gooning up the landing pattern at H4 real bad. It's hard to descend in the pattern described in SPINS with enough speed for an overhead break without straying over town below the altitude restriction. Can anyone share a detailed description or video of it being done properly?

[ChillNG]

1 hour ago, Roosterfeet said:

I'm 2 missions in and the campaign is great so far but I'm pretty sure I'm gooning up the landing pattern at H4 real bad. It's hard to descend in the pattern described in SPINS with enough speed for an overhead break without straying over town below the altitude restriction. Can anyone share a detailed description or video of it being done properly?

Easiest way is to extend towards the oil plant (Bravo) or the wind farm (Alpha) as you descend, then hook back round.  As long as you avoid the town ATC will be happy with you.

[metzger]

There should have been one holding pattern somewhere close before each of the entry points. Approach will let you know active runway and send you towards the correct entry point and holding, then will switch you to tower and tower will either ask you to hold or clear you for initial point and land. Since this seems VFR, Alpha and Bravo are just visual references for where the initial is. 

now is a bit weird, Mission 1 I have been asked to go entry point bravo but hold on holding pattern outside tower airspace. Then I have been instructed to exit holding but without instruction for which initial point and which runway. Neither there is ATIS to tell you winds and active runway. So I exited east assuming active is 28 as this is the one I departed, just to get clear to land runway 10  The ATC procedures are a bit messed up, but I suppose it is more or less the same for every mission so it is not game breaking, just not as immersive as it could have been.

[Gr_Chris]

Its clearly shown in the SPINS that you have to enter the traffic pattern and not fly an overhead pattern. Leave the holding over A or B at 8000ft and enter the anticlockwise  pattern.  Usually after the city the atc is gonna clear you for 4000ft and just before downwind he is gonna clear you for approach. That means you can further descend to 1500AGL (~3800baro altimeter). If you do it correct then you are gonna be on the downwind 2.5 miles abeam the runway at 3800 ready for the base turn with gear down. This pattern can take you to both runways from same point. Eg. B can be used for 10 or 28. Just follow the pattern.

This type of approach is pretty realistic as its used in many military airports with heavy traffic. Straight in approach without the overhead break is also a realistic option.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Gr_Chris

[Terzi]

I read all those above, and I read all SPIN document and briefings. Still I am confused. Firstly, this traffic pattern is too tight to turn. I try to do this turn on top of the airport avoiding the city at 8000 feet. After 1-2 minutes of struggle ATC tells me to land. Alpha and Bravo are quite far away from where I hold the pattern. I do the pilot maneuvers and land the easiest way I can. What is the point of having Alpha and Bravo then?

How am I supposed to do it correctly? To me this picture almost tells nothing. Is this the overhead pattern for landing or the pattern that we need to enter and hold after the arrival and contacting tower? Why does the tower ask me to hold this pattern while there is nobody landing/departing?

[ChillNG]

1 hour ago, Terzi said:

I read all those above, and I read all SPIN document and briefings. Still I am confused. Firstly, this traffic pattern is too tight to turn. I try to do this turn on top of the airport avoiding the city at 8000 feet. After 1-2 minutes of struggle ATC tells me to land. Alpha and Bravo are quite far away from where I hold the pattern. I do the pilot maneuvers and land the easiest way I can. What is the point of having Alpha and Bravo then?

How am I supposed to do it correctly? To me this picture almost tells nothing. Is this the overhead pattern for landing or the pattern that we need to enter and hold after the arrival and contacting tower? Why does the tower ask me to hold this pattern while there is nobody landing/departing?

Alpha and Bravo are your approach routes, nothing to do with the pattern, just arrive at whichever is specified and at the altitude instructed.  You'll then be moved from Alpha/Bravo to the pattern.  The pattern is for holding overhead until the runway is available (there's usually stuff happening below, you just might not have seen it)  I've never found it too tight, fly 5 miles parallel with runway on down/up wind then make a turn to the opposite leg, you don't have to be directly over the base to do so, just make sure you're offset (north or south is fine) from Ruwaished if below 7500 feet.  If above 7500 feet you don't need to worry and you can be less precise.  Once cleared to exit the pattern and contact tower, break out the pattern however you wish and land as you see fit.  I try not to dictate the exact landing method as some like doing OH break, some like going straight in.  I normally extend back towards Alpha/Bravo as I descend then turn back in for a straight in landing.

[Terzi]

4 minutes ago, ChillNG said:

 I normally extend back towards Alpha/Bravo as I descend then turn back in for a straight in landing.

Okay I think this is the proper way to do it. Thanks for clarification. But maybe the pattern location could be somewhere else where we can fly 1 minute forward and 1 minute backwards with 30 degrees bank turn at 250 knots to hold a race track. But thanks I really enjoy the campaign

[VirusAM]

I’ve never seen this pattern at any airfield I’ve ever flown from in 29 years of naval aviation.  I flew F-14s including multiple instructor tours, dets, and Fallon tours.   No overhead break isn’t realistic for a pointy nose squadron.  
 
Squadron dets would follow or coordinate/ create a/c specific “course rules” with initial fixes/alts/headings to set up for expedited recoveries I.e. the break over the runway numbers.  We’d also set them up to ensure noise abatement as needed.  Finally we’d have hung ordinance profiles.  
 
I flew the first mission last night and the pattern was counter intuitive.   If I was the det OIC I’d be having meetings with base ops to adjust this messy box thing immediately for operational necessity.  Fighter squadrons do overhead breaks.   Maybe heavies or helo bubbas fly this box, but tacair guys don’t in my experience.   
 
I like the campaign, though. 

You can do the overhead break if you want (I do for example) that box is only for the waiting pattern and then reaching the initial for the straight in approach, or for the break.
The AI doesn't do breaks in DCS unfortunately.

[Tophatter14]

3 minutes ago, VirusAM said:

You can do the overhead break if you want (I do for example) that box is only for the waiting pattern and then reaching the initial for the straight in approach, or for the break.
The AI doesn't do breaks in DCS unfortunately.

Fair point.   AI is notoriously difficult.