Carrier version for reduced price?

[Cavemanhead]

Loved the trailer and I'm completely jazzed about flying the F4.  That said, I have very little time, and although I like to support the developers, I don't want to throw my $ away with a few flights in a the non-carrier variant only to spend the same amount on the carrier version when it comes out.

Of course, if the carrier version will be a small add-on fee (or even free), then yes I can see picking up this module now.  Does anyone know how the carrier version will be marketed?  and...  when it might come out? 

[_BringTheReign_]

5 minutes ago, Cavemanhead said:

Of course, if the carrier version will be a small add-on fee (or even free), then yes I can see picking up this module now.  Does anyone know how the carrier version will be marketed?  and...  when it might come out? 

Unlike the F-14 variants, there is enough of a difference between the F-4E and the J/S to warrant an entirely new module, and according to the FAQ it will be a completely separate module from the F-4E. Release dates are tricky as we have seen, what we do know is that work on the Navy version has not started yet. HB had said work would start after the F-4E is complete, however we do not know what their planned release looks like compared to the other modules in their pipeline. 

[Bozon]

The navy version will probably take over a year after the F-4E release.

[Stackup]

Just now, Bozon said:

The navy version will probably take over a year after the F-4E release.

I'd bet it's way more than that.  Ironmike said the current release order is F-4E, Eurofighter, and then A-6.  They don't even have a plan for where the naval F-4 fits into that yet.

[_BringTheReign_]

7 hours ago, Stackup said:

7 hours ago, Bozon said:

The navy version will probably take over a year after the F-4E release.

I'd bet it's way more than that.  Ironmike said the current release order is F-4E, Eurofighter, and then A-6.  They don't even have a plan for where the naval F-4 fits into that yet.

At the risk of turning the forums into a Discord screenshot repository, here's the latest from Cobra - no Navy F-4 for a long, long time

[Bozon]

Thanks for the info @_BringTheReign_ and @Stackup. I was under the impression that the Navy Phantom was next in line. Too bad, I mean I am happy they went with the E first, but I do want a navy phantom too… in less than a decade away.

Unfortunately I have 0 interested in the Eurofighter. The A-6 may be something to wait for.

[Dragon1-1]

I'm also mostly excited for the A-6, of course, I loved Flight of the Intruder, so there's that.  I'll probably buy the Eurofighter, but it's another glass cockpit FBW bird, not a mostly analog beast the Phantom is.

[badger7966]

I wish them all the best with their development.

I am happy enough to pay for the major variants.....B,C,J,E,.....but for example a C and D are pretty close...as is a J and an S......E and an EJ or an F and perhaps a G .

I would be happy to pay for he major modules full price...but the C to D maybe could be a cheaper update ...If indeed you want to update it.

Kinda like the A-10CII was ....If you own the master module the update was reduced for a time.

[Mizzy]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:45 PM, Cavemanhead said:

Loved the trailer and I'm completely jazzed about flying the F4.  That said, I have very little time, and although I like to support the developers, I don't want to throw my $ away with a few flights in a the non-carrier variant only to spend the same amount on the carrier version when it comes out.

Of course, if the carrier version will be a small add-on fee (or even free), then yes I can see picking up this module now.  Does anyone know how the carrier version will be marketed?  and...  when it might come out? 

HB have said it's too much work to do it as an add on or anything like that and therefore it will be a completely different module and sold as a separate module. I have no issue paying for the F4-B as a separate module whatsoever, in fact I would pay double the price and not break into any menopausal sweat whatsoever. You get what you pay for and I can imagine the development of the F4-B is making it from scratch (almost).

Mizzy

[Dragon1-1]

Considering that it's different aerodynamics (although they might make a hard wing E before that), completely different rear cockpit, a different radar, older model engines, and different landing gear as well, I'd say it really is another airplane, even if they are closely related.

[Gambit21]

On 12/3/2023 at 4:27 PM, _BringTheReign_ said:

At the risk of turning the forums into a Discord screenshot repository, here's the latest from Cobra - no Navy F-4 for a long, long time

 

You might be reading the wrong thing into that post.

He's saying that with the F-4E release, they plan to expand, meaning that if all goes to plan, parallel development on multiple modules will increase.

This means that you may have to wait a while, rather than a long, long  time 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Gambit21

[_BringTheReign_]

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

You might be reading the wrong thing into that post.

He's saying that with the F-4E release, they plan to expand, meaning that if all goes to plan, parallel development on multiple modules will increase.

This means that you may not have to wait a while, rather than a long, long  time 

I fully understand that this is their intention/plan - I still think it's going to be longer than even they can predict, given the track record of the last 2 years. This isn't a criticism just trying to set my own expectations low for obvious reasons haha

[Heimz]

I'd pay $500 for each F-4, I'm hungry phor good phood.   Gimme gimme gimme......

[upyr1]

USS Enterprise in 1971-1972

The only USAF versions of the Phantom I could see being bundled with the a Navy version would be the C and possibly the D. The C and B were bascially identical except for some USAF changes like wider tires, controls in he back and a boom receptacle the D was an advanced C 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by upyr1

[Elf1606688794]

Has Heatblur said which naval variant(s) they will make? If not, why do so many assume it will be a J/S and not a B/N? Inquiring minds want to know.

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, Elf1606688794 said:

Has Heatblur said which naval variant(s) they will make? If not, why do so many assume it will be a J/S and not a B/N? Inquiring minds want to know.

HB hasn't said anything 100% about the Naval Phantom. I figure most people believe it will be the J because that is often viewed as the ultimate Naval Phantom. I know at one point Nick Grey was saying he wanted all the major F-4 variants. The odds of seeing that would ultimately come down to perceived interest and how similar the models would be and perceived interest.

My understanding of things

the B and the C would be the most similar Navy and USAF versions. basically, the RIO/WSO stations are the biggest differences. 

The J's the definitive Naval version

The D is the evolutionary link between the C and E

Then the Royal Phantoms will need a whole new flight module 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by upyr1

[Stackup]

34 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

ED hasn't said anything 100% about the Naval Phantom. I figure most people believe it will be the J because that is often viewed as the ultimate Naval Phantom. I know at one point Nick Grey was saying he wanted all the major F-4 variants. The odds of seeing that would ultimately come down to perceived interest and how similar the models would be and perceived interest.

ED isn't making any Phantom modules and has no plans to, so I fail to see how their opinions even factor into this other than they make the base game and would like to see more cool stuff added.

Heatblur has said we are getting an E module with two variants and a separate module of an as of yet unspecified naval variant/s.  The J fits best into the timeframe of the E we are getting, so that would make the most sense.  It also provides the possibility of an S model coming with it as the S is a modified J in the same way the N is modified from the B.  So the common guess has been that the naval module will be either a J/S or a B/N because of how the versions are related.  This would also match up with the way the F-14A/B is one module although I think the F-4's have bigger differences between modifications so we could also just see two J variants, or two variants of the B, N, or S for that matter since that is how they are doing the F-4E.

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, Stackup said:

Heatblur has said we are getting an E module with two variants and a separate module of an as of yet unspecified naval variant/s.  The J fits best into the timeframe of the E we are getting, so that would make the most sense.  It also provides the possibility of an S model coming with it as the S is a modified J in the same way the N is modified from the B.  So the common guess has been that the naval module will be either a J/S or a B/N because of how the versions are related.  This would also match up with the way the F-14A/B is one module although I think the F-4's have bigger differences between modifications so we could also just see two J variants, or two variants of the B, N, or S for that matter since that is how they are doing the F-4E.

Dumb me changing rewriting the post and not editing fully. Anyway, the statement from Nick Grey may still hold some clues about HB's plans. As I don't know what he knew when he said it. 

[Biggus]

Cobra mentioned that the J was the main contender a few months ago on Discord, but that the decision was not yet firm.

[Kalasnkova74]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:35 AM, Biggus said:

Cobra mentioned that the J was the main contender a few months ago on Discord, but that the decision was not yet firm.

Hopefully the J is chosen. The B is too technically old to be competitive, plus it would be unfair for Navy Phantom Phans to be stuck flying an iteration older than the USAF -E model. 
 

[SgtPappy]

1 hour ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

Hopefully the J is chosen. The B is too technically old to be competitive, plus it would be unfair for Navy Phantom Phans to be stuck flying an iteration older than the USAF -E model. 
 

I too really hope for a J. I feel that the S, as an 80's aircraft, would be too out of place since it might be too much of a challenge to fly competitively in 80's servers while absolutely crushing anything in the 60's and 70's servers, unless it's heavily restricted lke the F-14A and MiG-29A in ECW.

Also the J with its hard wing would make a more diverse planeset since it would have the performance of a hard-wing. Personally, I'd like it more since it saw combat.

[Biggus]

The other thing that the J is great for is variety.

Pre-DECM Js up until 1975ish, DECM-equipped Js from late 1972.  You've got super Js with smokeless motors and AWG-10As from 1975, you've got J/Ss that are effectively S models that haven't yet received the slat kits from around 1979 til 1983, you've got the F-4J (UK) with it's own different systems up until January 1991.  All of them offer meaningful points of difference that would be relevant to us in DCS.  While an S would be my dream rendition, I can acknowledge that it's probably not a viable choice if HB continue their trend of including a couple of variants in each module.

 

[Gambit21]

On 1/4/2024 at 11:22 AM, Kalasnkova74 said:

Hopefully the J is chosen. The B is too technically old to be competitive, plus it would be unfair for Navy Phantom Phans to be stuck flying an iteration older than the USAF -E model. 
 

I'm fine with the J...I'm fine with any of them!

I also totally get the remark about competitiveness, and given the E that's coming, you're probably on point.

I just feel compelled to say however that I don't look at it this way at all. I'd love to have a B for variety's sake, just as I'd love to have a C/D model. 

Vietnam era is what I want to see the most.

 

I'd love to think that the "whole story" will be told, but that's probably not realistic. So if it's a J, and never a B...I'll still be a happy camper.

 

 

[Kalasnkova74]

52 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I'm fine with the J...I'm fine with any of them!

I also totally get the remark about competitiveness, and given the E that's coming, you're probably on point.

I just feel compelled to say however that I don't look at it this way at all. I'd love to have a B for variety's sake, just as I'd love to have a C/D model. 

Vietnam era is what I want to see the most.

 

I'd love to think that the "whole story" will be told, but that's probably not realistic. So if it's a J, and never a B...I'll still be a happy camper.

 

 

The grim truth is there just isn’t enough money and time to develop every F-4 variant.

You’ve got the Navy B, the USAF/Spanish Air Force C, USAF/Iranian/South Korean D, Navy -N, Navy -J, Navy -S, UK variants….honestly it would be a major resource commitment just making all the -E model subvariants like the Kurnass , Luftwaffe & JASDF /TuAF/Hellenic models. DCS would have to be redesigned with a red air human IADS component for the USAF -G version to make sense. Each subvariant has fans, but HB doesn’t have an infinite development budget. 
 

Fortunately, VSN has the beginnings of a great F-4B/F-4C mod. It’s got its flaws, but over time if they polish it to the level of the A-4C mod it’ll scratch the early version itch for most folks. Cant beat the price either.  

[Bremspropeller]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:22 PM, Kalasnkova74 said:

Hopefully the J is chosen. The B is too technically old to be competitive, plus it would be unfair for Navy Phantom Phans to be stuck flying an iteration older than the USAF -E model. 

I don't think the B/N would be a bad choice, given the possible timeframe that could be covered: Early 60s through late 70s, depending on which sub-variants they're willing to make/ getting enough info to make. The B was heavily used in SEA and it faded out with the Tomcats coming online. If we're thinking ahead, an early 60s Phantom could be valuable in the future. There's a MiG-17F in the works, there's still some MiG-19S hopes and people are keen for somebody to make an early MiG-21. The B would fit right in with those. The B is also lighter than the J, with a lighter nose, which will be positive at the merge.

Both the N and J/S had VTAS, which I absolutely think should be done if there's enough documentation to get by. Not to make ace-in-a-day compilations on youtube or for excelling in PvP, but mostly for the quirkiness and the experience of using this system. If it's a check-option, people will have a choice between unsing it and leaving it at home.

The J in general provides a nice contrast to the E, with it's AWG-10 system and the generally better Sidewinders. The B/N and J/S will both be somewhat of a letdown for the A-G folks, when compared to the E, so there's little difference in between them. Maybe some special Marines weapons-rigging, which would be tough as nails getting documentation for. If it ever existed.