requested Why should exporting RWR and other viewports break integrity check?

[LaFleur]

What is exactly the reason that it's ok to export mfd screens but not RWR, DED, IFEI, UFC and other viewports? 

Why should those viewports break Integrity Check? 

Why should homepit builders be punished with not being able to join 95% of online servers because of it, rendering their expensive equipment useless?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but if it's not, the solution is literally one line of code... You can copy paste this by yourselves, so your customers who have built home cockpits, don't need to mess around with lua files to make viewports exportable.

Can we have a clear and concise reply on this, so people know if their hardware is semi-useless now, and other people who are looking at investing thousands of dollars/euros in hardware for their hobby, know that they are not going to be able to use them online?

Edited November 29, 2023 by LaFleur

[Flappie]

Hi @LaFleur. I'm not familiar with exporting data. Could you be more specific? Which file modifications are breaking IC?

[Insonia]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

Hi @LaFleur. I'm not familiar with exporting data. Could you be more specific? Which file modifications are breaking IC?

 

21 hours ago, LaFleur said:

What is exactly the reason that it's ok to export mfd screens but not RWR, DED, IFEI, UFC and other viewports? 

Why should those viewports break Integrity Check? 

To make an avionic indicator as a viewport. The avionics init script must have try_find_assigned_viewport("viewport name") commands.

MFD screen is already assigned. less common indicators are not.

 

If ED did not pre-define the viewport assignment. In order to assign a new viewport, the user has to modify the protected cockpit/scripts/[instument_name].lua files

All Avionics scripts are protected. You cant exclude individual files without them redesigning the system.

If the viewport is not defined by ED themselves, you cannot add more without breaking the IC unfortunately.

I think the wish for a better viewport handling process was made by the community about 2 years ago. No workaround.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/315268-multimonitor-setup-now-violating-integrity-check/?do=findComment&comment=5239919

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Insonia

[Raisuli]

This is an issue I haven't seen yet, and I have three Cougar MFDs with monitors behind them, so DDIs, MFDs, RWR (or HSI) on the F-16, radar and RWR on the F5, RWR, HSD and VDI on the F-14, the list goes on, and just to check I just went to Georgia at War, Enigma, and I think Buddy Spike with no problems at all.

Are you sure it's the export that's breaking integrity?

[LaFleur]

1 hour ago, Raisuli said:

This is an issue I haven't seen yet, and I have three Cougar MFDs with monitors behind them, so DDIs, MFDs, RWR (or HSI) on the F-16, radar and RWR on the F5, RWR, HSD and VDI on the F-14, the list goes on, and just to check I just went to Georgia at War, Enigma, and I think Buddy Spike with no problems at all.

Are you sure it's the export that's breaking integrity?

This is a well-known issue for at least a year. Probably the server's you are playing on don't require "pure scripts".

2 hours ago, Flappie said:

Hi @LaFleur. I'm not familiar with exporting data. Could you be more specific? Which file modifications are breaking IC?

@Insonia provided many info. If you need more will be happy to provide.

 

Here is a list of lua files that have to be edited to have the  try_find_assigned_viewport("viewport name") commands.

Essentially, in order to export the F-16 RWR in this example, you need to add this line to the RWR_ALR65_init.lua :

dofile(LockOn_Options.common_script_path.."ViewportHandling.lua")
try_find_assigned_viewport("F_16C_RWR", "RWR")

The exact same happens with the following list. You need to just give a name to the viewport, but doing so triggers IC.

If this line was added by Eagle Dynamics themselves, we wouldn't have to meddle with these lua files, IC wouldn't be triggered, multiplayer would still be protected by cheaters and exploits, while at the same time home cockpit builders would be able to enjoy their hardware in multiplayer. Problem solved. WIN - WIN - WIN. 

This list was compiled by Helios, which has a specific section (an interface named "DCS Additional Viewports) of exports that require lua editing that results in IC triggers:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by LaFleur

[MadKreator]

53 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

This is an issue I haven't seen yet, and I have three Cougar MFDs with monitors behind them, so DDIs, MFDs, RWR (or HSI) on the F-16, radar and RWR on the F5, RWR, HSD and VDI on the F-14, the list goes on, and just to check I just went to Georgia at War, Enigma, and I think Buddy Spike with no problems at all.

Are you sure it's the export that's breaking integrity?

Some do, some don’t.  I think as mentioned before, that ED has “pre-defined” some things that are okay as exports, depending on how it’s done. The way Helios “patches” the files for exported displays, breaks IC even with a basic MFD export ( don’t ask me how, I don’t know). But breaking IC also doesn’t exclude you from all servers. Just ones with “pure scripts” enabled, mostly the pvp servers. I play MP all the time on great servers like grayflag, flashpoint, burningskies etc and I have a laundry list of things that fail IC. But if you’re into the dogfight arena kind of thing, and heavy pvp then you’re basically sol as the pure scripts keeps people from modifying any files, to prevent cheating. I think an entire IC/anticheat system would need to be reworked. I don’t imagine its as easy as just omitting a few specific files from the IC… maybe?

Edited November 30, 2023 by MadKreator

[Flappie]

Thank you all. I've just found an internal request about this specific HELIOS matter. I'll bump the request.

And I'll make the request for ControlsIndicator.lua.

[MAXsenna]

Thank you all. I've just found an internal request about this specific HELIOS matter. I'll bump the request.
And I'll make the request for ControlsIndicator.lua.

Please, overlays like the kneeboard, gunners panel, cargo indicator etc. would be nice too!
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MadKreator]

20 hours ago, Flappie said:

Thank you all. I've just found an internal request about this specific HELIOS matter. I'll bump the request.

And I'll make the request for ControlsIndicator.lua.

Awesome! I know a while back that BN mentioned the team was aware of Helios issues… which also translates to exporting more than MFD’s, in general, I believe. Of course there’s no expectation for ED to accommodate a 3rd party software. But fixing the way exports are handled in a global sense, and their effect on IC, I think is the ultimate goal. 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

sadly its not a simple fix, we really have no objection to exporting however there are ways to use it as a cheat that I wont discuss here. 

We do have a report open to try and find a work around but I have no news to share at this time. 

thank you 

[MadKreator]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi,

sadly its not a simple fix, we really have no objection to exporting however there are ways to use it as a cheat that I wont discuss here. 

We do have a report open to try and find a work around but I have no news to share at this time. 

thank you 

Thank you for the bit of insight. Much appreciated! I think we all would rather have exports that break IC, than exports being axed all together! There’s much more to DCS than just the few servers that block them. Always appreciative that ED allows it in the first place… amongst other mods in general.  Hopefully someday it can all be ironed out 

Edited December 2, 2023 by MadKreator

[jonsky7]

On 12/1/2023 at 4:52 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi,

sadly its not a simple fix, we really have no objection to exporting however there are ways to use it as a cheat that I wont discuss here. 

We do have a report open to try and find a work around but I have no news to share at this time. 

thank you 

But there is a relatively simple fix as far as I can see.

Rather than allowing those files to be modified freely, if the team simply add the lines that we exporters add to the display's init.lua files and THEN lock them down.

Ie

For example, the A-10C RWR

%%/DCS World/Mods/Aircraft/A-10C/Cockpit/Scripts/AN_ALR69V/indicator/AN_ALR69V_init.lua

Add the lines

dofile(LockOn_Options.common_script_path.."ViewportHandling.lua")

try_find_assigned_viewport("A10C_RWR")

 

As long as each display gets its own unique name, I'm sure that will suffice.

We are aware of the limitations of some exports of these displays. At this time nobody is asking for anything more than being able to export them as they are and pass IC.

[Harley]

It's sad that they are having to protect the DCS world from people that would abuse it. Those of us that want a little more immersion, or a lot more, really do have to balance it against clever people that would exploit it. We just want to build stuff! I hope this can be fixed. I'm looking to step into this arena also, and as easy and cheap as it is becoming, there is still an undesirable element to make things difficult.

[Extranajero]

On 11/29/2023 at 8:42 PM, LaFleur said:

What is exactly the reason that it's ok to export mfd screens but not RWR, DED, IFEI, UFC and other viewports?

Why should homepit builders be punished with not being able to join 95% of online servers because of it, rendering their expensive equipment useless?

 

 

I know - it's a combat flight sim ( or at least it's meant to be ), not Escape From Tarkov.

Meanwhile the easiest and most common method of cheating is still out there and nothing has ever been done about it. Many of the people who use it aren't just cheating, but actively trying to wreck everyone elses experience. To be fair to ED, it's a method not limited to DCS.

But cheer yourself up with the thought that most PVP servers are hell on Earth anyway, full of annoying kids with 10 Amraams loaded on their Hornets flinging missiles at anything that flies, red or blue.

I've made the decision that I'll use whatever mods\tweaks\exports I like, and if that stops me joining a server then that's fine. I can fly with my friends on a private server where sanity prevails and we are all on the same wavelength.
 

[Harley]

13 minutes ago, Extranajero said:

I know - it's a combat flight sim ( or at least it's meant to be ), not Escape From Tarkov.

Meanwhile the easiest and most common method of cheating is still out there and nothing has ever been done about it. Many of the people who use it aren't just cheating, but actively trying to wreck everyone elses experience. To be fair to ED, it's a method not limited to DCS.

But cheer yourself up with the thought that most PVP servers are hell on Earth anyway, full of annoying kids with 10 Amraams loaded on their Hornets flinging missiles at anything that flies, red or blue.

I've made the decision that I'll use whatever mods\tweaks\exports I like, and if that stops me joining a server then that's fine. I can fly with my friends on a private server where sanity prevails and we are all on the same wavelength.
 

Well, it must truly display my ignorance because I have no idea how this could be used to cheat the game. I'm not asking how, for obvious reasons, as I would also hope noone discloses it in here. But it must be some clever turkey that could sift through all this code and find a way. I would rather it be difficult to make a simpit work than make it easy to ruin an otherwise good time. In some regards, it makes it a building experience rather than just an assembly experience, like what "building" a pc has become. Alas, we ride on the edge of trying to build something great and keep the integrity in place. I would hate to be blasted by even more 11 year old kids on purpose. Nothing is more frustrating than taking all the necessary time to load coordinates into 8 JDAMs and get strafed on taxi by some friendly fire and a shrill cackle. So, we wait.

[Extranajero]

16 minutes ago, Harley said:

Well, it must truly display my ignorance because I have no idea how this could be used to cheat the game. I'm not asking how, for obvious reasons, as I would also hope noone discloses it in here.

I can't think of a way either, but we won't get a better explanation. I can remember it being claimed that the spotting dots mod was being exploited, when the only provable thing that happened was some hall monitor\busybody type wrote a proof of concept that turned other aircraft into giant green triangles and posted a video of it to Reddit.

Public PVP servers are hives of villainy anyway and best avoided, I leave that sort of thing to the wannabe Growling Sidewinders of the DCS ecosystem.

Building a simpit is a poverty inducing mental illness, 1:1 scale modelling or both. Take your pick

[Extranajero]

Why anyone would want to learn to edit lua files to cheat when they can just use the method ( I didn't describe ) earlier, with no skill whatsoever needed is beyond me.

[Harley]

On 12/30/2023 at 5:17 AM, Extranajero said:

Why anyone would want to learn to edit lua files to cheat when they can just use the method ( I didn't describe ) earlier, with no skill whatsoever needed is beyond me.

I've completed the basic structure of the simpit, and can fly in it now. It does make a world of difference, but modifications will be made. The building has only just started, really.

I'm flying exclusively the F/A-18C and love it. The method you've mentioned earlier is really unnecessary if someone simply turns on the IFF. Sad that someone wouldn't want to experience it, and instead make it into a shooter game. But, I'm enjoying it. I hope one day that we can figure out how to beam the HUD onto something, and perhaps integrate the HMD with trackIR and fly with all the systems behaving as they should. That will be the day that it will be indistinguishable from real combat, spare the G-forces and actual death.

[trenchfeet]

Still could use the scripts pre filled for rwr and ded etc….

[Dracula2]

I have the same problem using the Winwing MFD screens for F-16 and F-18. Since I had to modify the ViewportHandling.lua file in order to bring the kneeboard back to my main screen, I cannot now join most of the multiplayer servers due to integrity check failing. When will this get fixed, ED?

[Bigity]

Kneeboards (and controls indicator) have big problem with multi-monitor setups.  ED just doesn't seem to care.

[ZuluThreeZero]

On 12/1/2023 at 4:52 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi,

sadly its not a simple fix, we really have no objection to exporting however there are ways to use it as a cheat that I wont discuss here. 

We do have a report open to try and find a work around but I have no news to share at this time. 

thank you 

Hi BN, any word on progress on this? Very frustrating when you're enjoying a server, decide to switch to the Mirage or Gazelle for a different task, and are suddenly booted because one of the display scripts has been adjusted (VCM/RWR and Viviane respectively).

Interestingly the adjustment to the AWACS script to make it more concise passes IC with no issue.

[BIGNEWY]

30 minutes ago, ZuluThreeZero said:

Hi BN, any word on progress on this? Very frustrating when you're enjoying a server, decide to switch to the Mirage or Gazelle for a different task, and are suddenly booted because one of the display scripts has been adjusted (VCM/RWR and Viviane respectively).

Interestingly the adjustment to the AWACS script to make it more concise passes IC with no issue.

I have nothing new to share currently. I have asked the project manager for news. 

thank you 

[MAXsenna]

I have nothing new to share currently. I have asked the project manager for news. 
thank you 

Just do it! Even if you don't mention it in the changelog. Surprise us!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Alleluia]

Few weeks later still no new information.

 

vast majority of viewport exporter are still unable to join 95% of MP

 

so can the normal simpit people expect a solution or do we need to do something else.

 

it’s already been more than a year.