MiG-29A FF: capabilities and how will it fit into the (meta)game?

[AeriaGloria]

20 minutes ago, JunMcKill said:

The MIG-29SMT is the upgrade package for both original airframes and can carry R-77, quote from Wiki:

"The MiG-29SMT version is an upgrade package for the first generation MiG-29 (9.12 to 9.13) containing many of the improvements developed for the MiG-29M. Additional tanks included in a larger dorsal hump provide a maximum range of 2,100 km (without external tanks). The cockpit features improved HOTAS-type controls, two 152 × 203 mm color LCD multifunction displays and two smaller monochrome LCD displays. The upgraded Zhuk-ME radar offers similar characteristics to the MiG-29M. The engines are upgraded to the RD-33 Series 3 that offer an afterburning thrust of 8,300 kgf (81.4 kN) each. The weapons load is increased to 4,500 kg on six underwing pylons and one central pylon, with armament options similar to the MiG-29M variant. This update is also focused on accepting avionics and weapons of non-Russian origin."

Yes. But MiG-29 9.12S also exists, where S upgrade is done in 9.12 airframe without hump

[okopanja]

19 minutes ago, draconus said:

Any upgrade makes it a different variant. We're only getting MiG-29A 9.12, that's all there is to it.

Let's wait for Mig-29A in its original form, but I would not go so far to claim we will not see sub-variants based on upgrades. 

We know that DCS allows for sub-variants within the same module (several examples already), so I would not be too surprised if this occurs with Mig-29 in future. Upgrades that were offered or implemented did range from under-the-hood changes (e.g. making longer ranged more ECM resistant radar capable of guiding R-77), toward relatively minor cockpit modifications (e.g. replaced HUD repeater with MFI-55) toward really comprehensive changes where the cockpit is radically changed (SMT).

[F-2]

38 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Let's wait for Mig-29A in its original form, but I would not go so far to claim we will not see sub-variants based on upgrades. 

We know that DCS allows for sub-variants within the same module (several examples already), so I would not be too surprised if this occurs with Mig-29 in future. Upgrades that were offered or implemented did range from under-the-hood changes (e.g. making longer ranged more ECM resistant radar capable of guiding R-77), toward relatively minor cockpit modifications (e.g. replaced HUD repeater with MFI-55) toward really comprehensive changes where the cockpit is radically changed (SMT).

SMT 9.18 uses the 9.13 airframe and no hump and similar performance. The radar manual for the export Yemeni version has been publicly available for around a decade like the manuals being used for this module. Maybe that, we would have a 9.12B to correspond with the FC3 9.12 and a 9.18 to correspond with the FC3 9.13S.

[Alfa]

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

SMT 9.18 uses the 9.13 airframe and no hump and similar performance. The radar manual for the export Yemeni version has been publicly available for around a decade like the manuals being used for this module. Maybe that, we would have a 9.12B to correspond with the FC3 9.12 and a 9.18 to correspond with the FC3 9.13S.

it uses the 9.12 airframe actually: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29SMT (9-12) - Russia - Air Force | Aviation Photo #1297445 | Airliners.net

So no hump(not even the small one of the 9.13), but has the "swing-out" IFR probe typical of the SMT variants.  

[F-2]

1 hour ago, Alfa said:

it uses the 9.12 airframe actually: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29SMT (9-12) - Russia - Air Force | Aviation Photo #1297445 | Airliners.net

So no hump(not even the small one of the 9.13), but has the "swing-out" IFR probe typical of the SMT variants.  

Thanks man! probably even easier then. Classic airframe and much more modernized avonics. 

[Alfa]

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

Thanks man! probably even easier then. Classic airframe and much more modernized avonics. 

You are welcome  .

Yeah my thoughts exactly . a nice looking SMT with the new cockpit and upgraded systems, but without that ugly hump of 9.19.

I guess its sort of the "budget" version of the SMT and I cannot remember whether it has the upgraded version of the N019 radar(N019MP) or the Zhuk-ME...probably the latter though it could be a customer option.

[F-2]

2 hours ago, Alfa said:

You are welcome  .

Yeah my thoughts exactly . a nice looking SMT with the new cockpit and upgraded systems, but without that ugly hump of 9.19.

I guess its sort of the "budget" version of the SMT and I cannot remember whether it has the upgraded version of the N019 radar(N019MP) or the Zhuk-ME...probably the latter though it could be a customer option.

It has the Zhuk-ME, I’ve got the manual.

[Harlikwin]

13 hours ago, draconus said:

Any upgrade makes it a different variant. We're only getting MiG-29A 9.12, that's all there is to it.

Well, the general standard for models in 3rd parties is 2-3 variants or time frames at least. Look at razbam with different suites for the F15, Heatblur with 2 F14's (so far, maybe more "tm"), or Aerges with what 3 delivered and one more coming variants for the F1. Seems like the ED value proposition makes them seem like a bit of a  piker in the contemporary sense...

 

[draconus]

5 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Well, the general standard for models in 3rd parties is 2-3 variants or time frames at least. Look at razbam with different suites for the F15, Heatblur with 2 F14's (so far, maybe more "tm"), or Aerges with what 3 delivered and one more coming variants for the F1. Seems like the ED value proposition makes them seem like a bit of a  piker in the contemporary sense...

Yes, but it's ED's and nothing of more variants was hinted. Not that they couldn't because of time and money but I suspect more because of what they could legally simulate in full fidelity.

[okopanja]

24 minutes ago, draconus said:

Yes, but it's ED's and nothing of more variants was hinted. Not that they couldn't because of time and money but I suspect more because of what they could legally simulate in full fidelity.

A good Software Architect will identify the need to cover the possibility of covering the multiple sub-variants of the 9.12 and in particular those that can be added with minimal effort in near future. This not only works toward user benefits but also cost savings for the ED as company.

Some of those sub-variants require more effort and/or mean legal issues, but there are those which are likely not that troublesome to add at later time. Fortunately the later also include the improved processing of radar and ability to support R-77, and even limited multi-role capability. Overall these less capable variants certainly will not pose a larger threat to much more modern modules that are already in the game, but will enable more capable players to utilize them in more modern scenarios without being a plane cannon fodder.

 

[Alfa]

18 hours ago, F-2 said:

It has the Zhuk-ME, I’ve got the manual.

You got the manual?! - that sounds interesting.

[bies]

On 3/12/2024 at 1:27 PM, strelok2014 said:

DCS: F/A-18C lot 20, F-16C block 50 and F-15E Suite4E+ has engines, radars and avionics 1992+. After 1990-1991 and the collapse of the Soviet Union, the development of military equipment in the USSR/Russia stopped abruptly. So, i think the best and fair timeline is <1989 (before aim-120, R-27ER(ET), R-77):
F-86F, F-100D, F-104, F-5E, AJS37, A-4E, Mirage F1, A-7E, F-4E, IAI Kfir, A-10A, F-15C, F-14A/B, AV-8B(NA), Mirage 2000C. (AIM-7M, AIM-54A(C), AIM-9M and old)
MiG-15bis, MiG-17F, MiG-19P, MiG-21bis, MiG-23MLA, MiG-29A (9-12), Su-25, Su-27P (R-24R(T), R-27R(T), R-60M, R-73 and old)

100% agree. 1980s was the last time when some kind of natural balance existed IRL and Soviet aircrafts could put up a fight. Both in tactical engagements and on a strategic scale. And "artificail" balancing is not a job of a simulator, its job is to pick the spots/timeframes where some kind of real life balance occured naturally, like WW1, WW2, Cold War air campaigns of Korea, Vietnam, Middle East wars like Iraq-Iran war etc. Before the 1990s AMRAAM, R-27ER, Link16 etc and collapse of the Soviets.

1980s with a mix of a bit older 1970s and brand new 1980s aircrafts like full fidelity F-14A/B, Mirage F.1, Huey, Gazelle L, MiG-21bis, L-39, C-101, MB-339, F-5E, Mi-8, Mi-24, Bolkov-105, Tornado IDS, Kfir, F-4E, MiG-23MLA, MiG-29A, A-7E, A-6E, with low fi FC3 A-10A, Su-25A, F-15C, Su-27S is one of such sweet spots. AJS-37 Viggen and Mirage 2000 could nearly squeeze as well into the 1980s with small modifications.

Early Cold War with MiG-15bis, F-86, G.91, MiG-17, MiG-19, F-100, F-104, A-1 would be the other one.

That's why MiG-29 9.12 is a perfect variant, fitting the timeframe with the biggest number of DCS modules.

[Ronin_Gaijin]

Instead of thinking about extra variants, can we please ask from ED, a full spec, ready on release module?
Including the Biryuza.

[Ramius007]

Sweet spot for Mig-29A will be REAL 80's setup, propably on Persian Gulf or Syria map, we can get milsim like order of battle on those 2 maps, with Tomcat, both Eagles, both Mirages, Migs, Phantom and some older cold war airframes, excluding everything with datalinks (even Flankers) and Litening pod (maybe except Harrier) this would be healthy balanced DCS  MP setup, what exact missiles type we get is irrelevant, becouse Mig in XXI centaury will be obsolete in every role, even with ER/ET, but against planes with similar limited situational awerness it will be competetive and blast to fly. Also small thing, but seems nobody noticed, our FC3 Mig dont have HD bombs except KGMU and antirunway one currently, with Mig crazy performance, low altidue strikes will be chellenging, but also fun if we get more unguided ordenace that can be fired just from over the tree line

Edited April 6 by Ramius007

[Seaeagle]

16 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

Sweet spot for Mig-29A will be REAL 80's setup, propably on Persian Gulf or Syria map, 

Except that;

- the 9.12A that we are getting is the Warsaw Pact export variant, which wasn't supplied to applicaple nations until the very end of the 80'ies and as such actually better suited for an early 90'ies scenario.

- The Warsaw Pact nations were all in Eastern Europe, while nations in the Middle East(such as Iraq, Iran and Syria) that operrate MiG-29s got the lower spec 9.12B variant or/and got them later.

Probably not the biggest realism omissions for your suggested scenario, but a "REAL 80's setup"......not quite.:)

[AeriaGloria]

8 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Except that;

- the 9.12A that we are getting is the Warsaw Pact export variant, which wasn't supplied to applicaple nations until the very end of the 80'ies and as such actually better suited for an early 90'ies scenario.

- The Warsaw Pact nations were all in Eastern Europe, while nations in the Middle East(such as Iraq, Iran and Syria) that operrate MiG-29s got the lower spec 9.12B variant or/and got them later.

Probably not the biggest realism omissions for your suggested scenario, but a "REAL 80's setup"......not quite.:)

It’s not much of an immersion breaker for me to consider it a Soviet version since performance is identical. For MiG-29 9.12b, I think the main difference is different IFF unit that requires manual interrogation. So you need to press “ZANPOC/break lock” button to identify, and the panel is clearly different in cockpit. But that’s also a small difference in my book. 

These first three pictures are 9.12B with Parol IFF. Last 4 are 9.12A. Different between the round IFF selector with codes, and IFF you would be more familiar with in say Mi-24P module 

Edited April 7 by AeriaGloria

[F-2]

The 9.12B has a weaker processor but it has the same range as the Soviet and Warsaw pact version per overscan.

[Ramius007]

11 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Except that;

- the 9.12A that we are getting is the Warsaw Pact export variant, which wasn't supplied to applicaple nations until the very end of the 80'ies and as such actually better suited for an early 90'ies scenario.

- The Warsaw Pact nations were all in Eastern Europe, while nations in the Middle East(such as Iraq, Iran and Syria) that operrate MiG-29s got the lower spec 9.12B variant or/and got them later.

Probably not the biggest realism omissions for your suggested scenario, but a "REAL 80's setup"......not quite.:)

yeah, even Viggen and M2k we have in game are early 90's modernizations, but lets call this Gulf War like scenario, so no Fox3, no INS/GPS based munition, INS navigation, no omni datalinka but with awacs, peak of cold war technology