Best Joystick Brand to use for Cyclic

[jww123]

I'm currently using a TM Warthog joystick as a cyclic. I'm wondering if a stick without such an extreme centering would be beneficial. It's a bit hard to make the micro adjustments needed for hovering, etc.

Any recommendations? Virpil gunfighter? WinWing Orion 2?

TIA,

JonW

[UncleStains]

After waiting 8 months, I finally have my VPForce Rhino force feedback stick. This is the way if you can handle the wait/price. The Apache force trim finally makes sense to me.

[NIGHTHAWK1]

I have the Winwing Orion2 with F-16ex with a 10 cm extension.  I like it a lot, lot of buttons and lots of control, very sensitive with good control at hover and landing.

[Grennymaster]

i use the Virpil cm2 Base with the 15cm S curve extention. If you are used to the center trimming method, its a very usefull stick.

 

[Floyd1212]

I will second the Virpil CM2 base with a 20cm curved extension. I tried an Alpha grip with the CM2 base and actually preferred the feel of the Warthog grip and buttons, so I am using that with the CM2 base.  Great combo, with the center-less cams and loose springs.  Their newer CM3 base has the dry clutches, so that is an option as well.

[HPLsCat]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:45 PM, UncleStains said:

After waiting 8 months, I finally have my VPForce Rhino force feedback stick. This is the way if you can handle the wait/price. The Apache force trim finally makes sense to me.

Right now, this is probably the best helo base on the market.

[HC_Official]

I used to use a VIrpil CM2 base and CM2 grip along with a 200mm extension

I upgraded to a Virpil CM3 base and a CM2 grip along with a 200mm extension and configured it as a dead stick eg remove hand from stick it stays put = bliss

[markturner1960]

I use a Rhino for jets and a CM3 for the Apache and other helos. The CM3 is excellent value being half the price of the Rhino and once set up it is very easy to use and trimming woes is a thing of the past. I have it set so the springs and clutches hold it in position where you put it, which is perfect. I use a virpil 200mm S extension with it.

[Schlomo1933]

Using a rhino for jets and a cm3 for helos? Really ? 
that makes for me not really much sense ….

the rhino is perfect for helos, especially for trimming the helo.

… for jets the a Virpil or vkb are enough. 

[Floyd1212]

I think he may be referring to the X-56 Rhino, not the VP Force Rhino. 

[petsild]

I have been using VKB EVO with friction mechanism and without springs for two years.

For such a low price and precise processing, I consider it the best.

[Schlomo1933]

Am 30.1.2024 um 22:46 schrieb Floyd1212:

I think he may be referring to the X-56 Rhino, not the VP Force Rhino. 

Make sence

[golani79]

On 1/21/2024 at 4:05 PM, markturner1960 said:

I use a Rhino for jets and a CM3 for the Apache and other helos. The CM3 is excellent value being half the price of the Rhino and once set up it is very easy to use and trimming woes is a thing of the past. I have it set so the springs and clutches hold it in position where you put it, which is perfect. I use a virpil 200mm S extension with it.

This configuration probably isn't possible with the CM2 base isn't it?

[Gunslinger52]

If you are on a budget, and get lucky, the MS Sidewinder Force is still supported by DCS, and having it hold in the trimmed position is gold compared to a self centering stick.

I tried 3 other FFB sticks, and got nowhere  Still looking for an MS one.  Currently using a X-56 Rhino and with the self-centering wound all the way down, it takes almost no force to keep it in the right place.

Good luck in your search. 

'52

[markturner1960]

I am referring to the VP Force Rhino base. It will of course be great for Helos as well, but I have 2 separate sim pits and that would mean buying 2....Meantime, I use the Virpil CM3 base. This can be set up so the stick stays exactly where you put it, mimicking exactly how the stick works in reality, using a magnetic brake. So its just as good, only without the vibrating etc you get with the FFB effects. Its a great choice for Helos' for this reason and can be quickly returned to normal spruung operation if you are using with other modules with the twist of an allen key. Hope that clarifies

9 hours ago, golani79 said:

This configuration probably isn't possible with the CM2 base isn't it?

No

[golani79]

Well .. I guess a CM3 base will be the next thing to get

[petsild]

From what I read the CM3 base is not perfect with the friction clutch.

 

 

[Schlomo1933]

Go for the Vp force Rhino. It’s the best base we can get for helos.

[Dejmos]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:45 PM, UncleStains said:

After waiting 8 months, I finally have my VPForce Rhino force feedback stick. This is the way if you can handle the wait/price. The Apache force trim finally makes sense to me.

I've seen many posts AHA 64 this or that. Trim doesn't work. E.T.C. I have a problem with flying the Apache myself. I've already changed the joystick - it's even better, but it's not what I see in the tutorials. And I think they made dcsa and ah64 only for those who can buy an apacha cabin.
They could do some non-combination flying option. For pure fun. Because right now trimming this <profanity> is a disaster. no pleasure with DCS that I have had so far.

[Vakarian]

Trimming is not a disaster, you need to understand how it works. Plain and simple. It worked for me when I had joystick with springs and ofc it works with FFB base, but saying it's <profanity> because you don't understand its usage is funny at best.

[aaronwhite]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:45 PM, UncleStains said:

After waiting 8 months, I finally have my VPForce Rhino force feedback stick. This is the way if you can handle the wait/price. The Apache force trim finally makes sense to me.

My jealousy is immeasurable. 

[aaronwhite]

6 hours ago, Dejmos said:

I've seen many posts AHA 64 this or that. Trim doesn't work. E.T.C. I have a problem with flying the Apache myself. I've already changed the joystick - it's even better, but it's not what I see in the tutorials. And I think they made dcsa and ah64 only for those who can buy an apacha cabin.
They could do some non-combination flying option. For pure fun. Because right now trimming this <profanity> is a disaster. no pleasure with DCS that I have had so far.

It takes some getting used to, but once you're comfortable with it, it gets easier.

I tried to disconnect the idea of trim in fixed wing planes entirely in my mind. Instead I think of the trim as a "Hold my joystick and pedals for me". I fly with the "instant trim" selection, so basically what I do is I'll trim a bit of left cyclic at takeoff, and then once I get it up into the air with my feet on the rudders and just flying it manually with the cyclic, I'll start to pitch the nose forward and add whatever collective I need to get some forward airspeed with a gentle altitude increase. 
Once I start getting close to the stable angle I want to fly at, I'll click the trim and basically center all of my controls right away. Since I've been doing this since the Ka-50, I've gotten used to it. Then you may need to make small adjustments, so you'll notice you're holding a little more left cyclic than before, so you trim again. 

You'll be constantly adjusting your trim though. It's not quite like a plane, because any increase or decrease in speed, collective, turns, whatever you do, all of it is going to require you to re-trim the thing out. Dropping the collective will move your nose one way with the torque, so you'll need to add a little opposite rudder, maybe some opposite cyclic and trim again.

Once you get used to it though, I think you'll be surprised how little you end up thinking about it. And you can always hold the trim, get stabilized then release it to get setup. 

[LuseKofte]

7 hours ago, Dejmos said:

Trim doesn't work

Make sure you know What you talk about before making statements like that. Rest of your post are getting bla bla bla , when you start up showing you do not know how things work. 

[UncleStains]

The trim definitely works. Before I had a FFB stick I flew with a clutched/unsprung stick which works better than a spring stick, in my opinion.

To understand the Apache trim/SCAS system, fly with the controls indicator on. 

The red X is trim position, white diamond is physical stick position, and the green cross is SCAS system output. The SCAS system takes the positions of the red X and white diamond, does some math, and outputs the green cross. The closer together the red X and the white diamond are, the easier it is for the SCAS to maintain stability.

It works best if you hold the trim release up when doing large maneuvers. This locks the red X to the white diamond, guaranteeing full SCAS authority. Once you're settled in cruise or hover, periodically tap the trim release up as you are making small attitude corrections to keep that offset minimized.

[Dejmos]

16 hours ago, aaronwhite said:

It takes some getting used to, but once you're comfortable with it, it gets easier.

I tried to disconnect the idea of trim in fixed wing planes entirely in my mind. Instead I think of the trim as a "Hold my joystick and pedals for me". I fly with the "instant trim" selection, so basically what I do is I'll trim a bit of left cyclic at takeoff, and then once I get it up into the air with my feet on the rudders and just flying it manually with the cyclic, I'll start to pitch the nose forward and add whatever collective I need to get some forward airspeed with a gentle altitude increase. 
Once I start getting close to the stable angle I want to fly at, I'll click the trim and basically center all of my controls right away. Since I've been doing this since the Ka-50, I've gotten used to it. Then you may need to make small adjustments, so you'll notice you're holding a little more left cyclic than before, so you trim again. 

You'll be constantly adjusting your trim though. It's not quite like a plane, because any increase or decrease in speed, collective, turns, whatever you do, all of it is going to require you to re-trim the thing out. Dropping the collective will move your nose one way with the torque, so you'll need to add a little opposite rudder, maybe some opposite cyclic and trim again.

Once you get used to it though, I think you'll be surprised how little you end up thinking about it. And you can always hold the trim, get stabilized then release it to get setup. 

Yesterday I tried my best to master everything that can be done while flying and trimming. But once I managed to fly normally without using the joystick. I took my hand off the joystick and watched what happened. The flight was quite stable. Fixed parameters. And suddenly the apach begins to wobble and croak gently, then return to its previous position, raise its nose up and then lower it down. I have no idea or patience to learn how to fly an Apache. Ka50 was easier for me. This realistic flight physics is a bit exaggerated - in my opinion. As I have already written, they could have also made an option where this flight would be easier to control and therefore at least I would have more fun. I bought the AH64 before it came out and I don't mind it, but they could have implemented or omitted many aspects of the Apache flight physics. I know it's a simulator, etc., but I can't afford equipment that will allow me to feel realistic while controlling the Ah64.