The Anti-Multimonitor-touchbuddy movement

[advent_m]

Hey you guys.

Over the past months, I've seen many cool stuff on the net that make a twist on the simming experience, such as multimonitor setup, Touchbuddy, Voice Activated Commands and so on.

 

Am I the only one disliking these enhancements? IMO, they take away from the realism. No Ka-50 pilot can control the helo using his voice, or a magic "do-it-all" pad which contains all of the common & vital contorl switches.

 

Your take?

[GGTharos]

I think the fact that people spent money on these enhancements speaks for itself.

 

Your movement is a non-starter ;)

[Yskonyn]

If you think it takes away from realism, consider this:

 

The real KA-50 pilot resides in the cockpit where all pushbuttons, switches and controls are in reach of your fingertips. He can twist his head to look at the required intrument (which we can do with TrackIR as well) and then have his full field of vision to interpret what he sees, then he can reach to the control of the given instrument and interface with it by means of his hands.

 

Here we are; computer KA-50 sim pilots.

Our field of view is limited to the monitor we use and can be easily rotated by either TrackIR movement (simulating natural head movement quite well) or keyboard shortcuts or HAT switches on the joystick, maybe even the mouse. But it remains a very limited field of view in relation to what our eyes are able to see if we would be sitting in the real thing.

The next limiting factor is resolution; our monitors present a lower resolution of -for example- the labels and instruments in the cockpit when zoomed out a little than what we would be able to see when we're actually in the real thing, further limiting the simmer to interface with the cockpit.

 

These are just two examples of limits we have as sim pilots which real life pilots have much less. So its only natural to look for options to give you the overal overview of all the instruments that you would otherwise have in the real cockpit.

 

IMHO Multi-monitor setup, TrackIR, Touchbuddy and VAC can really add to realism, but a note has to be made that its also quite easy to destroy realism with them as well. But that's really about HOW you use it instead of IF you use it.

 

For example, if you're using VAC to control all the switches and buttons in the cockpit you can indeed argue about the fact that it would be beneficial to realism.

If however you use VAC to control the radio commands in the sim and direct your wingmen, then I think it only adds to realism.

 

Point is that with the limited environment we get on our computers we have much trouble getting all the sensory input to our brain in relation to what we would get in the real cockpit and so we look for ways to make up for that.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Yskonyn

[PoleCat]

Yes man that is crazy talk. How does it take away from realism if you press a push to talk button on your stick and then do all RADIO communications with AI through voice instead of on keyboard (VAC)? Most do NOT use it to control anything more then those actions which would be more sensible using it. In fact more realistic with it then with out it.

 

How does it take away from realism if you use 3 monitors and a 5040x1050 resolution putting your cockpit across the 3 screens or using tv camera on one and abris on the other? Real life is much bigger then the average monitor mate. Again it adds realism does not take away from it IMHO.

 

Absolutely crazy talk.

 

Out

[JozMk.II]

I second Yskonyn and Polecat.

 

This brings to mind a particular limited-edition flight stick and throttle set for Ace Combat 6 that had a not-so-convenient paddle on the throttle for rudder rather than a twist feature in the stick. I suspect that it was designed this way since many felt twisting the stick for rudder wasn't realistic. But then again using a less convenient paddle on the throttle instead isn't any more realistic; all it does is make things more difficult than they have to be! Certainly counter-intuitive.

 

So yeah, like Yskonyn said, the question on the realism of these quirks is how you use them, not whether you use them.

Edited April 7, 2009 by JozMk.II

[Feuerfalke]

Hey you guys.

Over the past months, I've seen many cool stuff on the net that make a twist on the simming experience, such as multimonitor setup, Touchbuddy, Voice Activated Commands and so on.

 

Am I the only one disliking these enhancements? IMO, they take away from the realism. No Ka-50 pilot can control the helo using his voice, or a magic "do-it-all" pad which contains all of the common & vital contorl switches.

 

Your take?

 

Yes you can command computers and systems per voice, but most of all: You can communicate with your wingmen and with the ground using your voice. It's called "radio" in reality. Not even a new invention, to be honest.

 

And it's also no shocking news to most of us, that the vast minority of aircraft have a 128 keys keyboard and a 15$ stick to control the aircraft.

 

But between this and reality lies a large variety of input methods. Some of them less realistic than other, agreed, but magic "do-it-all"s? I doubt that.

[advent_m]

Actually, you guys pointed to employment methods of the apps mentioned above that I haven't thought of.

 

When I mentioned multimonitor, I meant using a second (or more) montior for the Shkval\ABRIS. This is unreal for me because that real pilot doesn't have a hi-res monitor dedicated to those instruments, but zooms in with his physical head to see the monitors, like I do with my TIR4.

 

When I mentioned VAC, I was relating to a youtube video some guy posted here, where he demonstrated controlling the entire game oraly, which IMO is the opposite goal of the DCS concept.

 

Using VAC as a radio-mimicing-thing-only sounds quite good actually.

[Kwill]

I think one of the reasons they never made more than 30 or so Ka-50s was because you need to be a genius with an IQ of 180 and the reflexes of an Formula 1 driver to be able to fly the thing, so a little help for us in the computer world isn't really that bad.

[159th_Viper]

Hey - I'm all for a secondary 1440x900 HD Shkval Monitor for select individuals to aid in IFF/Target identification............:music_whistling:

 

:P

[Legolasindar]

Hey you guys.

Over the past months, I've seen many cool stuff on the net that make a twist on the simming experience, such as multimonitor setup, Touchbuddy, Voice Activated Commands and so on.

 

Am I the only one disliking these enhancements? IMO, they take away from the realism. No Ka-50 pilot can control the helo using his voice, or a magic "do-it-all" pad which contains all of the common & vital contorl switches.

 

Your take?

 

Yes Ka50 no have VAC, but and if...

 

Seriously, Ka50 pilots have REAL cockpit with REAL buttons, and have REAL panoramic view, etc...

Multimonitors, touchscreens, trackIR, etc... all of this, supplements, the gaps that our computers have with respect to reality.

 

People no have fisical cockpir for press button in one second, need use mouse for press button in 4 seconds, people no have sferic monitor for view HUD and Shkval in same time, need look one for time, etc...

 

Multimonitor, touchscreen, trackIR, vac, aproach people to reality, one monitor of 19', and one keyboard, is not real. :smartass:

[SSneg]

I think one of the reasons they never made more than 30 or so Ka-50s was because you need to be a genius with an IQ of 180 and the reflexes of an Formula 1 driver to be able to fly the thing, so a little help for us in the computer world isn't really that bad.

 

This is about what any fighter pilot (jet or helicopter) needs to do his job. And it's actually not about reflexes but the ability to capture and process craploads of information coming through eyes, ears, vestibular system etc. There was a very cool episode of "Top Gear" where they measured the difference in reflexes of Jeremy Clarkson, Michael Schumacher and a jet test pilot, the reflexes were at a similar level.

[G3]

this movement should be renamed the:

pro-no extra helpful stuff movement:smilewink:

 

as a guy with TB, th2go, tir, buttkicker etc.

i for one would be lost without these items.

 

come to think of it, i'm going for a movement now.:thumbup:

[CyBerkut]

this movement should be renamed the:

pro-no extra helpful stuff movement:smilewink:

 

as a guy with TB, th2go, tir, buttkicker etc.

i for one would be lost without these items.

 

come to think of it, i'm going for a movement now.:thumbup:

 

It's difficult to predict whether the buttkicker will help you with *that* movement, or hinder you... The triple head 2 go seems like overkill frankly, as 1 head should be enough (and less confusing, too). And try to lay off the TouchBuddy while you're in there! :smartass:

[Yskonyn]

:P Why does this grown-up discussion has to boil down to nastyness with too much information?? :)

If we're in that alley already allow me to drop in a thing to consider;

CyBerkut, do you have any clue what your forum name means in the dutch language? Every time I come across you on these boards it cracks me up! :D Drop me a PM if you want to know. But be warned, your perception might change forever! ;)

For the record; I am not trying to be offensive here, just some harmless fun.

[CyBerkut]

:P Why does this grown-up discussion has to boil down to nastyness with too much information?? :)

If we're in that alley already allow me to drop in a thing to consider;

CyBerkut, do you have any clue what your forum name means in the dutch language? Every time I come across you on these boards it cracks me up! :D Drop me a PM if you want to know. But be warned, your perception might change forever! ;)

For the record; I am not trying to be offensive here, just some harmless fun.

 

No offense taken. I was told by someone a few years ago. I adopted the handle long before that though, as a concatenation of Cyber and Berkut (seemed like a natural). I had the subspecies of golden eagle, Aquila chrysaetos daphanea in mind, not the plane(s). Mongols have hunted wolves with them, and they regularly take fox with them. I seem to recall they have been used to hunt tiger, but don't take that as written in stone. I guess it is fortunate that I capitalized the "B" and not the "k". :)

[Yskonyn]

I guess it is fortunate that I capitalized the "B" and not the "k". :)

 

Yeah, otherwise it would have been hilarious and downright filthy!

It's always nice to see origins of internet nicknames.

Mine is often a tongue breaker for non-dutch speaking individuals.

[CyBerkut]

To get back on topic, in response to the OP's question... I'm fine with all the additional gizmos. The previous respondents have covered the subject pretty well already, and they make good points. For me, I'm not particularly hard core about realism. I can be happy getting immersed into something that doesn't necessarily match up with how things are arranged in the real aircraft. A closer match is better, but all of us are making concessions to some degree or another. It's a matter of resources vs. priority.

 

Whatever people are having fun with in conjunction with E.D.'s software, it's good for our sim'ing community.

[Cap_Z]

Any gadget is fine with me if it helps suspend disbelief.

[JG14_Smil]

I wonder how people fly without all the gadgets :)

 

If I could get faster fps with multi monitor (60 fps), I would be using it for sure.

[hassata]

I'm with you-fps is king with me, and any drop is the biggest immersion killer (although even as low as 25 is still playable and smooth with this sim). But definetly try touchbuddy if you can, as non abris profiles result in no fps penalty.

[Yskonyn]

(...) But definetly try touchbuddy if you can (...)

 

If Innobec makes SideWindow compatible with Windows Vista I could finally use my PDA as a touchscreen for TB. :joystick: Not going to happen anytime soon, I am afraid.

 

I'd like to chime in on the statement why people want to fly without all the gadgets;

Money. Pure money ("oh and uhm..." -"yeah...." "the w.f." -"what?" "the wife..." :helpsmilie:). I cannot just spend the cash on all my so-called gaming 'needs' and buy three monitors, a touchscreen and whatnot. I would start an outright war here at home!

 

A good HOTAS, pedals and TIR are all pretty basic, but there's just something 'overkillish' about going for 3 monitors, a touchscreen, buttkicker seat and whatnot. Don't get me wrong; for ME it is in my current situation.

I would probably get laughed at so hard, here at home, if I even dare to mention I would love to get a setup like that.

 

TBH though, I do envy all of you having a dedicated sim room at home with all the bells and whistles. :D

[G3]

i can empathize with you on all points,

but you must realise that for most people this is

years of slow accumulation, not immediate bulk purchase.

trackir for your birthday, for xmas hotas etc etc.

 

selling points to wife if required can be:

you know where i am, not out banging her hot friend.:thumbup:

not still at the pub drinking your wages etc.

(you can do the same @ home on comms with the mates)

Edited April 10, 2009 by G3

[Yskonyn]

you know where i am, not out banging her hot friend.:thumbup:

 

:D I bet most of us have tried this one already... probably with varying results! ;) ("Oh dear, I didn't know you were into her? What about a 3-some?")

See? That would still not solve the problem.

[neverminded]

If Innobec makes SideWindow compatible with Windows Vista I could finally use my PDA as a touchscreen for TB. :joystick: Not going to happen anytime soon, I am afraid. :D

 

I have a PDA here and theres no way to get SideWindow to run with Vista.

Too bad :cry:

[Yskonyn]

Well Innobec said that is had been the plan, but they just haven't got around to it yet and they doubt they will anytime soon.

The worst part is that I don't know of any substitute for SW.