User Experiance Review

[Grimes]

I'm going to get this out of the way first. I'm NOT going to review the quality of simulation of the chopper. Eagle Dynamics already know the quality at which it is simulated, they don't need to be reminded. Instead this review is focusing on the user experience. My goal is to give ED suggestions and feedback from a moderate sim user. This is truly my first "Study Sim" and its quite a step up from learning how to fly the Su-25t in Lockon. I'll be updating this first post as I get more in-depth with the game.

 

1. Box Art and Installation

A. Box Art

As I opened the box it shipped in I got my first look at Black Sharks box. I had seen the cover on various websites but not the inside and the back. One of the first things I noticed was how different the flip-open section is from the front and the back. It's actually designed quite well. The blue background with white text and yellow headings looks great. The background has lots of nice and simple elements which arn't to distracting and they give the background nice texture. The front and back covers are a different story. The firery explosions feels quite noisey. I understand you went for an action shot but the bleeding of the yellow orangish color to the back feels detrimental to its design. Furthermore the back cover is cluddered with text. The space between the text statements on the top section is quite small making it all run together rather than individual facts of the game.

 

The other thing that bothered me was the overt usage of acryonmn "DCS" with only one mention of what "DCS" actually stands for on the back cover at the top. Its in three different fonts on the front cover alone. There should be at least one spelled out "Digital Combat Simulator" on the front. Its part of the title, it should NEVER be abbriviated.

 

B. Installation

I was plesantly surprised to be greated by a quick start manual when I opened the box. As I started the install I began to rummage through the manual. I honestly had a sinking feeling in my gut that the installation process may be a hassel when I realized that there are 15 pages dedicated to Activation and Deactivation of the game. The installation took a little longer than I expected but it went without a hitch. The option in the install were pretty simple and I liked having the option for "game mode" to be the defualt. I soon went through the activation process and it was relativily painless.

 

The time spent installing allowed me to look through the quick start guide. The guide is nicely designed. Up until the helpful hints section there are images to support learning the content. The helpful hints section however is more like a novelization of the hints and it becomes quite wordy.

 

2. Setup and Learning

 

This is currently the bain of my existence and the bulk of where improvements need to be made. Learning the helicopter is a rather unforgiving process, a process thats not really taught, rather its "professed". I felt like I was in a boring lecture when I fired up the first instructional video of the chopper.

 

A. Setup

After updating my trackIR drivers and creating a new X52 profile to accomadate Black Shark I went into the controls menu. Oh my the controls menu. Thats alot of key combinations. I understand why they all need to exist, but I felt immediatly overwhelmed by the sheer number and grouping of them. I almost feel like there should be a section where its a combination of multiple sections and it only contains mission/flight critical commands. Stuff like flares, trim, weapon selection. Each of those are in their own category and you have to have a really good idea of what you are doing before you even think of setting up a joystick profile.

 

B. Learning

 

Ok, where to start? This area needs the biggest improvement I believe. The current methodology of teaching a player to fly the Black Shark is equivilant to sitting in a lecture with a boring professor. You NEED to take notes and you really arnt taught how to do ANYTHING. You are TOLD how to do it but you are never TAUGHT how to. This is well fine and good for the 30 something who wants a challange in their life and gets all happy at the thought of the games detail. But for a young flight simmer who still enjoys "childish" games like Guitar Hero and Team Fortress 2 and especially for anyone who hasn't played a "study" sim this methodolgy of tutorials just doesn't cut it.

 

I think you really need a different approach to teaching players how to perform a task. Simply watching a track with narration do a task and then turn control of the game over the player doesn't work. I went through the combat systems tutorial and I remembered at most 3 buttons of the process needed to actually fire a weapon. I've yet to fire a weapon in the game.

 

 

A Plea for a needed change

I think the game needs to do is take advantage of metadata. It needs to look at which buttons you have pushed, the enviormental factors and give you important information relative to how to perform a task. In a tutorial its a controlled enviorment, it knows the specific task you need to accomplish. Once the instructional phase ends and control is given to the player it should tell you STEP BY STEP what to do again. It shouldn't advance to the next step until the player successfully follows the instructions. If a player accidentally hits the wrong button the tutorial tells them what they did and to turn it back to the needed setting. The player should have the ability to turn the help on and off at their OWN DISCRESSION, freely within a game. Think of it as a "training wheels" mode. It would be in full simulation mode, but the player is still constantly learning and getting better.

 

Case in point as to how usefull a mode like this would have been... I'm not going to lie, I was frustrated with my first few hours of gameplay by myself. I just wasn't having fun trying to figure everything out with the limitations of the games tutorials. I decided to seek help from my squadmates. So, last night my squadmate Kuky got on to comms. I asked for help with Black Shark. We spent about a half hour going over needed commands to be programmed into my flight stick profile. It was very helpful and I actually felt like I had a decent grasp on things. He hosted up a 4-man co-op and we went over some of the more important cockpit functions I need to learn. This was my first online experience in the game, it was quite exciting flying in formation and having somebody to ask questions to.

 

We were enroute to waypoint 1 when I started getting warning lights. Kuky was getting them to. I started to descend and Kuky pointed out he lost a engine. I realized I had lost one too. It was a winter map, we forgot to turn on the de-icing system. After the crash landings we both had a laugh when he realized that he had completely forgoten to do turn on the de-icer. We restarted and went for another go, this time Kuky walked me through how to turn on the de-icer. Much to my surprise he forgot about ONE of the switches that needs to be toggled on and we both crashed AGAIN.

 

I got to wondering, how convient would it be if I got a pop-up box while spooling up, which told me about the different systems I need to turn on in order to fly under the specific conditions I was in. Both could have been avoided, and I would have learned something, not to mention I probably would have made it to the target area and thus resulting in a positive gaming experiance.

 

My point is, there needs to be a system which holds your hand in teaching you the ins and outs of this combat simulator. The current system isn't very intuitive. I am very lucky that several guys in my squad who I can learn to fly the game with and ask questions as needed. But for the scores of players who never go online with the game, this solution simply doesn't exist.

 

I'll be adding more to this later.

Cheers.

[Lav69]

This is truly my first "Study Sim" and its quite a step up from learning how to fly the Su-25t in Lockon.

 

Not that big a step.

[Yskonyn]

I sympathise with you struggling with the learning curve and the limited hand holding this sim does for inexperienced players.

But in the mean time this is unavoidable in a study sim. It's a complex aircraft and so it requires some complex reading and training before you get to grips with it. There's a reason why pilots have to do training for every type of aircraft they fly, not just one license to fly em all. ;)

 

I, for one, wouldn't like popups or other indications in-game telling me that its winter and I should turn the anti-ice on, for example.

Besides, EKRAN tells you to do that anyway if you forgot. At least it does for engine anti-ice that I know for sure.

 

You always have the game-mode... :P

 

Just kidding. But don't the training missions do like you want? I mean if you start them and take control immediately you can just follow the voice over's instructions.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Yskonyn

[Distiler]

I think they way to learn the sim is the way you'r doing. Part by yourself, part by training tracks and part by community. I don't think you need to be hold by hand any more than that, that is too much for a simulation in where the endgame is not "wining" but knowing how to properly manage all the helicopter. I mean, for me a step and long learn time is good in this kind of "game", it gives more lifetime to the sim. Even the training mode has kinda simulation "feeling", you just hear a voice (and subtitles thanks god, I'm not english). If there were popups here and there it woudn't feel like it's simulating basic training in a ka-50.

 

I like when everything has a sense of simulation, of learning something "real". Having fun is secondary or tertiary or...I like the word "enjoy" for this kind of things in where fun and frustration are mixed but above all you learn (hobbies, etc.)

 

But that's just me :)

Edited April 11, 2009 by Distiler

[Lav69]

I like when everything has a sense of simulation, of learning something "real". Having fun is secondary or tertiary or...I like the word "enjoy" for this kind of things in where fun and frustration are mixed but above all you learn (hobbies, etc.)

 

 

Hear, hear (here, here?)....well put bro.

[Grimes]

 

I like when everything has a sense of simulation, of learning something "real". Having fun is secondary or tertiary or...I like the word "enjoy" for this kind of things in where fun and frustration are mixed but above all you learn (hobbies, etc.)

 

 

To each their own. While I enjoy the fact that what I am playing is grounded in reality, that is never the sole reason why I like and have interest in flight sims. I play because of the missions, because of flights with squadmates. I like feeling accomplishment if we go on a mission and are successful. Yes the process of learning a flight sim is in itself a challange, I don't have the time to dedicate to learning how to start the a/c manually. Isn't that the point of the engine quick start mode thats under "cheats"? (A labeling that itself gives negative connotation to)

 

I want to enjoy the core gameplay (campaign, learning basic system, online play) while playing at a relativly high level of realism and then when I have time and the interest peaks for me to dive in and learn every minor detail of the sim.

 

I sympathise with you struggling with the learning curve and the limited hand holding this sim does for inexperienced players.

But in the mean time this is unavoidable in a study sim. It's a complex aircraft and so it requires some complex reading and training before you get to grips with it. There's a reason why pilots have to do training for every type of aircraft they fly, not just one license to fly em all. ;)

 

 

But don't the training missions do like you want? I mean if you start them and take control immediately you can just follow the voice over's instructions.

 

Yes you can do the training with the voice over, but that isn't very efficient with regard to learning it. They give you a step by "here is a moderately detailed description in 100 words or so of what we are talking about" by step process when you take control but there are some things which are constant.

 

1. There is no indication on where a button might be. They assume you learned this from playing that same tutorial before or that you have the printed novelization of how to fly the Ka-50.

2. The tutorial continues as normal regardless if you have actually figured out where a button they were talking about is at. If you get behind you stay behind.

3. The actual process is buried in filler text which servers once or twice as relevant information to the task. The player should only be told the actual step of a process.

 

My point of this thread is that not everyone wants to dedicate hours upon hours reading the game manual prior to actually having a chance to play the game. A player ultimantly chooses how to play a game, and if they want to get off the ground and play a this sim their only choice SHOULD NOT be the "game" mode. They should have other alternatives that foster quick and effecient learning.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Grimes

[Weta43]

I like when everything has a sense of simulation, of learning something "real". Having fun is secondary or tertiary or...I like the word "enjoy" for this kind of things in where fun and frustration are mixed but above all you learn (hobbies, etc.)

 

But that's not where the vast majority of people coming to this will start - sure all the already hard core simmers will - but not the "oh - a helicopter game - I might give that a go" crowd (not suggesting that's where you're standing Grimes).

 

I think that the tutorials/manual/producers' notes videos that have been put together are great, but that doesn't preclude thinking about what other things could be done to make entry into the series easier in the future - especially if the aids are selectable.

 

Scalability is good. while I understand where you're coming from Distiller, discouraging an easier learning curve doesn't progress the genre :-)

[Distiler]

I'm from the generation where things were enjoyed. New generations just want to have fun (kinda enjoyment keeping the good leaving the bad), but it's also translating to med generations. I can live with that, if you know how to escalate of course so you keep the best of two worlds.

I've never said scalability is bad, is good if it's done well, and I think it's done very well in DCS (large manuals+resumed manuals, producers videos in youtube, training missions, introductory campaign,etc). And at the end you have the community/friends to help.

What I meant is, perhaps there is no need for more help that what we have right now to keep the sense of being in a serious environment (in simulation mode) and at the same time make concessions (in game mode) for those that can't tolerate well frustration. Because that is the key, tolerance to frustration, and this is why we all keep hearing the word "usability" any pretty much every place. Usability is good, it just have to be done right.

 

If ED thinks it can be done better in terms of usability and scalability, go for it! but in essence, DCS is a hardcore simulation of a real ka-50 (no usability in 70-80's! just ergonomics, etc.) in a real environment, you're not gonna have the same "fun" in it that you have in Hawx because "fun" is not in DCS core. ED, in any way, did very well with the arcade mode. If they wanted to do a "Hawx" game, they would have gone for it, then add a extra "simulation"mode, but they didn't.

 

This is a recurring theme in "harcore" games btw, a neverending one!

Edited April 12, 2009 by Distiler

[Yskonyn]

Yeah you have a good point about getting behind in the tutorial and the rather thin info you get. I agree its hard to follow the first few times.

The way I went at it was watching the producer's notes, scribbling some sort of checklist on paper, watch the tutorials, then play them.

I can understand that might not be what less 'hardcore simmers' (for the lack of a better term without trying to put people in 'boxes') want to have to do before being able to take the aircraft for a spin.

[robnpat]

I have to agree in part with Grimes about the tutorial. I have some games that have a tutorial with a voice-over, and it tells you to do something, highlights it and then waits for you to accomplish that task, then it moves to the next task. If that was done with BS, that would have been great with me. The current tutorials seem to be a tad fast, and I fall behind.

 

I even printed off the manual, and had to look up the keyboard commands for some of the items they talk about and I wrote the keyboard command next to that task. That was very time-consuming, and I haven't gone through the whole manual to do that yet. If that was done in a step-by-step in a tutorial with a voice-over and highlighted the item/switch/task and waited for you to do that, then I would probably fair alot better than trying to fly the Ka-50, flip the manual to a particular page (for instance, Shkval Target Point Designation) for a task I need to accomplish at that point. I usually crash during this :doh:

 

I don't have a fast internet connection, so there is no way I can join up with other people to help out, except via forums.

 

I do have to say, though, that this is a kick-tail sim. It is hard, but I'm sure I will get the hang of it and my current learning frustrations and flying 'abilities' will be laughable in due time :megalol:

[PoleCat]

Nicely detailed write up Grimes. A lot of perspective from an all around stand point.

 

Not that I know/fly this sim as well as many other outstanding V-pilots that post in these threads but to me and IMO it is exactly those things that are hard to learn and require at least some repetition that make me love Black Shark so much.

 

The sense of accomplishment achieved from having learned something is directly proportional to the difficulty in having persevered to do so.

 

Out

[NismoRR]

For the most part, I have to agree with Grimes. I think the tutorial/training has a lot to be improved. The abbreviated start up procedure is a great example. The instructor in some sections tells of 6-7 switches/knobs that have to be turned on in succession. You try to follow but he talks too fast and when he finishes talking, he's still hitting switches because he was talking faster than he could do the procedure. No way you can keep up. Now, I'm pretty good with the start up, but that's because I watched that tutorial five times and have some checklists which were VERY helpful. As said, it's very satisfying once you get it.

 

Overall, BS is fantastic so far. Learning to trim and come to a hover, geting a feel for flying this thing and enjoying every minute. Now if I could just figure out how to fire a rocket. I practice flying in the "shooting range" mission. The goal for the day is to at least fire something, even the cannon!! :)

[GGTharos]

I'm fairly certain that as the product itself improves with each module, so will the manual and the training.

[Dusty Rhodes]

The sense of accomplishment achieved from having learned something is directly proportional to the difficulty in having persevered to do so.

 

Out

 

And that my friends is part of what makes a person a HARD CORE Flight Simmer. Nicely put Polecat.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Dusty Rhodes

[element1108]

To each their own. While I enjoy the fact that what I am playing is grounded in reality, that is never the sole reason why I like and have interest in flight sims. I play because of the missions, because of flights with squadmates. I like feeling accomplishment if we go on a mission and are successful. Yes the process of learning a flight sim is in itself a challange, I don't have the time to dedicate to learning how to start the a/c manually. Isn't that the point of the engine quick start mode thats under "cheats"? (A labeling that itself gives negative connotation to)

 

I want to enjoy the core gameplay (campaign, learning basic system, online play) while playing at a relativly high level of realism and then when I have time and the interest peaks for me to dive in and learn every minor detail of the sim.

 

 

 

Yes you can do the training with the voice over, but that isn't very efficient with regard to learning it. They give you a step by "here is a moderately detailed description in 100 words or so of what we are talking about" by step process when you take control but there are some things which are constant.

 

1. There is no indication on where a button might be. They assume you learned this from playing that same tutorial before or that you have the printed novelization of how to fly the Ka-50.

2. The tutorial continues as normal regardless if you have actually figured out where a button they were talking about is at. If you get behind you stay behind.

3. The actual process is buried in filler text which servers once or twice as relevant information to the task. The player should only be told the actual step of a process.

 

My point of this thread is that not everyone wants to dedicate hours upon hours reading the game manual prior to actually having a chance to play the game. A player ultimantly chooses how to play a game, and if they want to get off the ground and play a this sim their only choice SHOULD NOT be the "game" mode. They should have other alternatives that foster quick and effecient learning.

 

 

Hey Grimes, yeah I hear you on the learning curve it's pretty steep. I myself have never really seen a sim that has an outstanding tutorial system. Perhaps the less complicated ones, but Falcon training was very difficult as well. Nothing really compares to hours in the cockpit though. For me reading is nice, but doing is better. When I read and do and make mistakes I learn from them.

 

To help with the basics I've studied and applied the stuff learned in the producer notes. They were an outstanding help to me and you're able to pause in real time so you can catch up to what's been said or even rewind to hear it again.

 

Eventually you'll get it and things will just click and there will be a great sense of satisfaction. Not everyone can pick this up and fly it, which I think although pointless to real life application sort of gives us flight hobbiests a personal sense of :pilotfly::pilotfly::pilotfly:.

 

If they had an online course or a real course that taught you everything you need to know (AKA FLIGHT SCHOOL) I would totally go hehe.

 

A seriously dedicated training aspect...one that could teach an infant to fly this machine would probably take a long time given the fact it's such a complicated bird with LOTS of moving parts hehe.

 

It sounds weird, but I flew my first 20 hours with no weapons loadout and it was ALL maneuvers, landings, hovering, auto rotations etc. I know that's pretty dedicated, but I treated it like "flight school".

 

Iit's helped as I feel pretty comfortable in it entering a combat area making me worry about the targets as opposed to simple flight controls.

 

If you have problems feel free to ask a la FORUM's as well mate. You may get a "READ MANUAL" response, but you'll also find the answers you're looking for.

 

Okay big post ends now!

 

:thumbup:

Edited April 13, 2009 by element1108

[NismoRR]

It sounds weird, but I flew my first 20 hours with no weapons loadout and it was ALL maneuvers, landings, hovering, auto rotations etc. I know that's pretty dedicated, but I treated it like "flight school".

:thumbup:

 

Doesn't sound too weird to me. This is exactly where I'm at. Using the shooting range mission to practice flying. Working on trimming and decelerating to a hover, and of course landing. It's funny because I'll fly over to the targets, but have absolutely no clue on how to engage yet. :cry:

[Madman777]

It's only a matter of time before someone in the community makes a sweet training manual / missions / guides...etc.

 

I didn't go through any of the training missions that came with DCS. My short term memory is crap and I dont like writing notes. I learned how to play from reading the forums/Manual and lots and lots and LOTS of practice.

[Mr_Blastman]

1. I play Team Fortress 2 and I'm 33... what does that make me?

 

I also play Falcon 4.0 (since the day it came out) among many other sims.

 

2. You should try Falcon 4.0 and check out the tutorials in that sim (or lack of thereafter, well - really, there are real tutorials if you use the manual in conjunction with the sim and it is pretty well done).

 

This is a study sim. You are going to have to bust your butt with hours of trial and error before you even become slightly competent. They are all like this. Previous experience with other helocopter simulators is a HUGE help though, it will save you many many hours. For HOTAS - download someone else's profile. :)

 

I do though, understand from a newbie standpoint that you point out - it could be more accessible with more interactive training. I basically threw the training in BS out the window and flew single missions over and over or even set up my own free flight mission to experiment with. I learned more doing that than anything else, but, I have hundreds of hours of flight time in other helo sims. Don't give up! The reward is worth it. :)

[fox_111]

I think, for this kind of sim, there is no going around reading the manual and studying it at some point.

 

It's fine being able to takeoff, shoot stuff and land, but knowing what the helicopter is doing and how to troubleshoot problem is a major plus.

 

It took me more than a month to learn how to properly fly and attack without bouning all over the place and eventually busting my rotor. So a new player should not expect to be able to fly like in the movies or videos on Youtube "out the box". Some reading is in order before that.

 

I agree that the tutorial are a bit light on information. They should also include basic helicopter flying tips and manuvers.

[Sinner6]

I am very surprised nobody has mentioned that BS IS SCALABLE. It does indeed include an "Arcade" mode that is, in itself scalable. Ramp on up from easy mode. There is no shame in that, and you can get comfortable. One day, you will look back fondly on this experience. How many things are you proud of that were easy at the time?

 

Just to give an example: I am your 33 year old who has been 'study simming' for 15 years. It still took 3 weeks of flying and trying to figure out what I would need before I was able to set up my HOTAS. One GREAT thing about BS is the clickable cockpit. You need not remember a single keystroke if you know where the button is. Once you learn where they are, things like the startup sequence seem much more logical...

 

Anyway, try and savor the experience, soon enough you will be adept, provided you make it over the hump.

[Safari Ken]

One GREAT thing about BS is the clickable cockpit. You need not remember a single keystroke if you know where the button is. Once you learn where they are, things like the startup sequence seem much more logical...

 

I agree, and it never occurred to me to do the startup sequence from keystrokes. The buttons are logically-enough laid out that I was able to guess my way through 80% of it. Of course, then I had to actually learn what they all were doing, but the clickable cockpit is a terrific win for ED, I think. :thumbsup:

[Grimes]

I agree that to really understand and have a full comprehension of how to play the game and fly the chopper one must dedicate hours of reading the manual and spend time flying the thing. But in my opinion the training WITHIN the game is lacking methodology and should be diverse enough to allow a player to learn at their own rate.

 

Yes we have the 400 page manual in PDF form, the forums, and some have pre-established online friends to act as instructors, but none of these options are overtly obvious to a new player. The flight manual itself is mentioned once in the quick start guide. Perhaps links to it or the producers notes in the training menu or even the autostart screen when you insert the disk... Obviously they are important to educate players, they have to know that those tools are important.

 

Out of curiosity what were your thoughts as you watched the first tutorial video introducing the helicopter?

 

Personally my thoughts went something like this....

 

(loading screen)

"Finally, this game has been a long time coming"

(fully loads)

"Wow, that really is a nice model, but its just sitting there...."

(Cold engine start begins with very detailed lecture on its overall features)

"I guess its kinda cool to see the process and hear all the different sound fx"

(10 minutes later at least it feels like it:music_whistling:)

"Really your talking about the wiper blades?"

(Chopper takes off and flys a circle and lands)

"Well that was anti-climactic"

(Intro Ends)

 

Personally, I would rather have seen a much more to the point intro showing a quick combat mission or something at least a little more action oriented. And then leave the details to another tutorial.

[element1108]

the philosophy you cant please everybody applies to this. Some like it this way others like it that way.

 

I skipped most of the training missions an went right to producer notes and manuel for instruction. I'll use training to renforce what I've learned already.

 

Lockon had a similar training regiment and falcon in game training is useless without the manuel to follow.

 

There is no quick way to learn this that's why fighter pilots and attack helicopter pilots log months in class and countless flight hours just to qualify.

 

Grimesy no fear

 

:)

[GGTharos]

FYI, Wags is already taking the observations and suggestions you guys have made (and not just in this thread) with respect to the A-10C manual.

[Grimes]

Its my sincere hope that the in game training improves for the A-10. Its always good to know that our feedback is being looked at.