Having a hard time avoiding AIM-120s fired from F-15

[Hoggorm]

Hello,

I'm having a hard time avoiding AIM-120s fired from a F-15. They fly high and fast but I see that the missile warning appear only seconds before impact.

In the Tacview recoding attached you can see user Tax in his F15 fire at me, Hoggorm, at 04:58:12. He then turns away so he must loose radar track with me(?). The missile still homes in on me. I fire an AIM120 myself just before the missile warning goes active. I now try to place the missile on my 9 o'clock, but it is too late. About 13 seconds after the missile warning sounds I am hit.

First I find it strange that the missile is able to track me even though the launch aircraft has turned cold. 2nd I find it strange that the missile warning goes active so shortly before the missile hits me.

What did I do wrong here? How can I counter this and survive the next time?

hit by AIM120.zip.acmi

[Hobel]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Hoggorm:

Hello,

I'm having a hard time avoiding AIM-120s fired from a F-15. They fly high and fast but I see that the missile warning appear only seconds before impact.

In the Tacview recoding attached you can see user Tax in his F15 fire at me, Hoggorm, at 04:58:12. He then turns away so he must loose radar track with me(?). The missile still homes in on me. I fire an AIM120 myself just before the missile warning goes active. I now try to place the missile on my 9 o'clock, but it is too late. About 13 seconds after the missile warning sounds I am hit.

First I find it strange that the missile is able to track me even though the launch aircraft has turned cold. 2nd I find it strange that the missile warning goes active so shortly before the missile hits me.

What did I do wrong here? How can I counter this and survive the next time?

hit by AIM120.zip.acmi 1.27 MB · 2 Downloads

I will look at the tracks later.   But it should be said that the rwr warning is dynamic, which means that you can get a missle warning between 5-8nm, if you get the missle warning at 5nm and the missle is still very fast you hardly have time to react.

 

Therefore, make your own timings and do not rely on the rwr warning.

 

Otherwise Also fly high and fast and shoot as early as your radar allows against an f15.  You can lock an f15 at 55-65nm.  If you have a lock, shoot and dive down immediately.  

Edited March 19 by Hobel

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I have this question: While diving away, do you not need to keep the AIM120 within a certain cone region from your nose radar so it gets the updates from you before it goes active/autonomous? Or are we just hoping the missile's own trajectory was enough if fired well within the ASE circle so that the target would be within the missile's own radar scan when it goes active? (That said, with labels on and as a last resort, I've often had success using maddog.)     

[Hobel]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb GrEaSeLiTeNiN:

I have this question: While diving away, do you not need to keep the AIM120 within a certain cone region from your nose radar so it gets the updates from you before it goes active/autonomous? Or are we just hoping the missile's own trajectory was enough if fired well within the ASE circle so that the target would be within the missile's own radar scan when it goes active? (That said, with labels on and as a last resort, I've often had success using maddog.)     

The aim120 in dcs must be supplied with updates until it goes active and sees the target independently, this happens at 10nm.  If the data supply is interrupted beforehand, the missle flies to the last known point, if you are lucky and the target has little or no maneuvering, the aim120 can see the target. 

 

However, there have also been bugs/exploits in the past, whereby the host aircraft continued to supply the missle with perfect data even when it was cold.  

F18, for example, could do this once.

[Hoggorm]

10 hours ago, Hobel said:

...rwr warning is dynamic, which means that you can get a missle warning between 5-8nm, if you get the missle warning at 5nm and the missle is still very fast you hardly have time to react.

 

Thank you for your reply Hobel,

So, the missile goes active based on distance to target? I was under the impression that it was based on time (to impact or after launch). That explains at least why there is so little time to react.

Now in this specific scenario included in the Tacview, I shoot two AIM120 myself at Tax, but as he turns cold, and no missile warning has sounded I was fairly certain he had not shot at me, or at least that his missile no longer was provided tracking. That is why I targeted the next aircraft, a F18. I've included a new Tacview recording since this was not included in the first. Here, I am shot down so obviously no radar guidance from me anymore. Still, my AIM120 seem to track the F18. This time a miss though. The F18 does indeed fly fairly straight ahead after I am shot down. To me though the AIM120 seem to adjust its course even before the 5NM where the F18 reacts and start its defensive maneuvers.

 

AIM120 tracking after radar loss.zip.acmi

[Moonshine]

the higher and faster something is, the faster his missile will be and hence will cover the distance from pitbull to impact more quickly. thats why at very high altitude, just defending when you hear the RWR wont suffice. you have to anticipate that the enemy has fired on you already. not even mentioning thin air and hence less drag for the missile but also slower control response for any defensive maneuvers.

The Amraam has some guidance capability with Datalink, so if you lose lock, it will continue to fly to the anticipated location of the contact, and, with some luck, pick it up on its own radar once active. however this is not as reliable as if you continue to feed the missile info by holding the lock until she goes active

Edited March 20 by Moonshine

[GPatricks]

10 hours ago, Hobel said:

Otherwise Also fly high and fast and shoot as early as your radar allows against an f15.  You can lock an f15 at 55-65nm.  If you have a lock, shoot and dive down immediately.  

 

You can fire an Aim-120 at 55-65nm and hit something? 

[skywalker22]

13 minutes ago, GPatricks said:

You can fire an Aim-120 at 55-65nm and hit something? 

Yes. I was shot down on Modern Buddy Spike server a month ago with an AMRAAM shot from F-15E which was at the time of firing at Angels 45, speed of 1.2 Mach and 52nm away from me. 

I also recorded it, since it was my "record" of being shot down from the furtherst distance.

I got a missile warning cca 8-10nm before, but I was pushing my luck a bit too much, didn't think the missile can reach me. But it did. The missile still hit me with a speed about 1.5 to 1.6 Mach, which means there was still some distance to cover.

Edited March 20 by skywalker22

[skywalker22]

Can I ask the devs here ( @BIGNEWY maybe), is there in plan to do the missing HPRF mode (Husky) for the AIM-120C-5 missile? So far we only have MPRF mode (pitbull).

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb GPatricks:

You can fire an Aim-120 at 55-65nm and hit something? 

Why not, if the missle arrives at the target with mach 3 it still has enough energy.   

up to a maximum of 70-75nm are possible, the limiting factor is the battery of 100 seconds, if the aim120 had even more lifetime it could be fired even further.

Tacview-20240320-144315-DCS.zip.acmi

 

Edited March 20 by Hobel