reported Petrovich cannot see units that are in plain view

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, KoN said:

So as solo flyer how do we know if sight is toppled . Is there any sign of this . 

Tell petrovich to look at a spot in gunsight area and see if Petro can skew it or if it’s off. Sometimes when it’s only half bad, Petro may be able to target the left or right half of your nose, but not both 

[KoN]

 

8 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Tell petrovich to look at a spot in gunsight area and see if Petro can skew it or if it’s off. Sometimes when it’s only half bad, Petro may be able to target the left or right half of your nose, but not both 

When I've taken fire from enemy, yes, sometimes the sight will not A-line, and he can not move the sight crosshairs. I gather that the sight has been hit, and I abort the mission.

This has nothing to do with Petro not locking targets up in a level flight towards targets. This is all online. Will test offline soon, I'm too busy at the moment .

[Flappie]

18 hours ago, KoN said:

So as solo flyer how do we know if sight is toppled . Is there any sign of this . 

Enter the CPG seat, look into the sight and try to aim at your 12 o'clock:

• If you can't, that means the sight is toppled.
• If you can, but the reticle looks like the picture below (horizontal lines are not parallel to the ground), that also means the sight is toppled.

[admiki]

20 hours ago, KoN said:

So as solo flyer how do we know if sight is toppled . Is there any sign of this . 

When you tell him to turn the sight on, floating reticle should pop in line with fixed reticle. If it shows up anywhere else on your "HUD", most likely gyros are toppled.

[KoN]

Are tracks broken again I'm trying to save a track but I keep getting errors. 

[ghostskills82]

Suffering the same. Doing the Outpost campaign mission 1. First try no issues. petro found 5 or more enemy vehicles at the lake but i got shot down during this engagement. Retry 2 to 10 Petro does not see any enemy any more, no matter which angle, no matter which distance. he does find my wingman over and over again but not a single enemy. not from a distance, not when i´m close. even infantry opens fire on me but petro does not show anything but my wingman. i know it must be layer 8 - a user caused issue - but i´m not getting what i am doing wrong. never had those issues before - i own the hind since ea-release so actually i know it and never had similar issues - not 8 or 9 times a row.

Can anyone safe my outpost campaign experience?

Edited May 8, 2024 by ghostskills82

[Flappie]

13 minutes ago, ghostskills82 said:

Suffering the same. Doing the Outpost campaign mission 1. First try no issues. petro found 5 or more enemy vehicles at the lake but i got shot down during this engagement. Retry 2 to 10 Petro does not see any enemy any more, no matter which angle, no matter which distance. he does find my wingman over and over again but not a single enemy. not from a distance, not when i´m close. even infantry opens fire on me but petro does not show anything but my wingman. i know it must be layer 8 - a user caused issue - but i´m not getting what i am doing wrong. never had those issues before - i own the hind since ea-release so actually i know it and never had similar issues - not 8 or 9 times a row.

Can anyone safe my outpost campaign experience?

Do you have a track showing this issue? It would really help determining what's going on.

[ghostskills82]

nope. did not save any trackfiles. too much issues with getting corrupted. stopped watching trackfiles years ago.

[admiki]

18 minutes ago, ghostskills82 said:

nope. did not save any trackfiles. too much issues with getting corrupted. stopped watching trackfiles years ago.

Tracks have been improved. Not flawless, but are better.

Anyway, regardless of its state, track file is the only way for ED to take a look at the issue at hand.

 

[ghostskills82]

okay. thank you all. goodbye hind then. hello chinnok.

btw. just took a trk.file. same crazy stuff as always. me flying straight, my hind going 90° sideways on the trackfile. also wingman chrashed only in trkfile. great improvements tho! same like 2.5.0!

Edited May 8, 2024 by ghostskills82

[admiki]

I'm sure Hind community will be at loss with your departure.

Dude, post a track file and let ED worry about how to watch it over.

[KoN]

15 hours ago, Flappie said:

Do you have a track showing this issue? It would really help determining what's going on.

I'm trying to do one also showing the same thing about Petro not locking targets. However all my flights are on multiplayer. Tracks are long or  broken. . Not had time lately. 

[AeriaGloria]

16 hours ago, ghostskills82 said:

Suffering the same. Doing the Outpost campaign mission 1. First try no issues. petro found 5 or more enemy vehicles at the lake but i got shot down during this engagement. Retry 2 to 10 Petro does not see any enemy any more, no matter which angle, no matter which distance. he does find my wingman over and over again but not a single enemy. not from a distance, not when i´m close. even infantry opens fire on me but petro does not show anything but my wingman. i know it must be layer 8 - a user caused issue - but i´m not getting what i am doing wrong. never had those issues before - i own the hind since ea-release so actually i know it and never had similar issues - not 8 or 9 times a row.

Can anyone safe my outpost campaign experience?

 

Same happened to me on same mission.. I think it might be issue with mission or even the intention that you can’t find anything. I would recommend posting in the section for that campaign because then the creator will be able to respond to you 

[whataboutbob71]

As far as the sight being "borked", turning off the weapon system and closing the sight for about 3 minutes worked. Then turning the weapon system back on (LCrtl-W) and then waiting for the alignment fixed the "borked"  sight. I was able to start picking up targets again, i wish there was a binding for it as a pilot. You have to jump to the CPG seat and toggle the power switch which would be to the right of your head. Commanding a sight close before maneuvering is the way to go and prevent that from needing to be done. No more than 2 ATGM shots when approaching target AO, close sight and race track away; then repeat.

The AI gunner still has issues picking targets and their priority. Pete getting fixated on a far target in visual range rather then a target in the same LOS that is closer. Even if that closer target is shooting, which is mind boggling. For example a AAA unit far out of shooting range being top target, while a IVF in shooting range and much closer to your position at the bottom of the targeting list, then you don't realize it until that IVF shoots at you. Cycling targets in the list is a good way to get around this but can be time consuming in a fire fight not to mention if you hit the wrong button and have to redo the search. Pete acts as if he has never seen the AO before even though he had a list less than a second ago!

 

 

[admiki]

58 minutes ago, whataboutbob71 said:

As far as the sight being "borked", turning off the weapon system and closing the sight for about 3 minutes worked. Then turning the weapon system back on (LCrtl-W) and then waiting for the alignment fixed the "borked"  sight. I was able to start picking up targets again, i wish there was a binding for it as a pilot. You have to jump to the CPG seat and toggle the power switch which would be to the right of your head. Commanding a sight close before maneuvering is the way to go and prevent that from needing to be done. No more than 2 ATGM shots when approaching target AO, close sight and race track away; then repeat.

The AI gunner still has issues picking targets and their priority. Pete getting fixated on a far target in visual range rather then a target in the same LOS that is closer. Even if that closer target is shooting, which is mind boggling. For example a AAA unit far out of shooting range being top target, while a IVF in shooting range and much closer to your position at the bottom of the targeting list, then you don't realize it until that IVF shoots at you. Cycling targets in the list is a good way to get around this but can be time consuming in a fire fight not to mention if you hit the wrong button and have to redo the search. Pete acts as if he has never seen the AO before even though he had a list less than a second ago!

 

 

It's how ED set threat logic: SAM>AAA>>Tank>IFV>APC>Infantry. 

They also did implement some sort of distance variable, but I think above logic is primal over anything else

Edited May 21, 2024 by admiki

[FusRoPotato]

I've been having trouble getting him to see targets that are on slopes or nearby fences/walls, even if the unit is entirely visible. Thought sometimes units out in the open just can't be seen. I can only imagine that there is some kind of logical offset issue, like the origin of a unit being 1 millimeter underground, but might be compounded with some objects hiding LOS through transparent geometry. Sometimes, he will be able to continue tracking a unit that falls behind a hill while Petro will spam target lost messages.

I've also been getting toppled sights for reasons that I don't think are intentional. Just handing off control or going in an out of the sight seems to trigger it going sideways, or he is suddenly pulling a bad maneuver that I am not aware of because there is no visual helper cue to help monitor the pilots orientation. It might be the sudden jerky motion Petro puts into the helicopter when I give him control but I'm not sure. There might be something buggy just with the transition process into and out of the sight causing it because I keep seeing it change orientation. After which, telling him to align the helicopter after that sign seems to have shifted has him fly the helicopter in the wrong direction.

I wish there was just an easy way to use the sight and fly the copter at the same time like the Apache. I know being 2 people at once isn't realistic, but neither is Petro being unable to see something with a scope that I can see without, nor his handling in the pilot seat.

In real life, we can feel things that we can't feel in a game, not just with orientation and motion, but with force feedback as well. Without such senses, it only makes sense to implement a few helpers here and there that make up for control issues and potential accidents that may result. That might include visual indicators, damped inputs, or input barriers. if you run things raw and ignore those considerations, you might do very well for someone with a sim put and FFB stick, but with a few bugs in related to limits, it's going to make a bad experience for people using basic hardware.

[Flappie]

1 hour ago, FusRoPotato said:

 I can only imagine that there is some kind of logical offset issue, like the origin of a unit being 1 millimeter underground, but might be compounded with some objects hiding LOS through transparent geometry.

Without any track, we can only imagine, indeed.

[FusRoPotato]

Thanks for reminding me of your limitations. I only recently hopped into a Mi-24 to try it because I heard about all the issues it was still having and was immediately able to verify. I am just parroting some of the experiences already shared here that must have shown up for no reason at all. The devs will take it or leave it, and I will invest my time and money accordingly. If the state of the game hangs on your downloading of 30mb track files that don't even record properly, I will let it be.

[Richard Dastardly]

Petro swearing at you & asking if you want to reset the sights you clueless idiot should surely be an option, having to leave the pilot seat when there's a gunner in the gunner seat is a very strange concept.

Must admit I've had a hard time with him too, but I've not put much time in the bird recently. Evidence will be provided if it turns up.

[Flappie]

2 hours ago, FusRoPotato said:

Thanks for reminding me of your limitations. I only recently hopped into a Mi-24 to try it because I heard about all the issues it was still having and was immediately able to verify. I am just parroting some of the experiences already shared here that must have shown up for no reason at all. The devs will take it or leave it, and I will invest my time and money accordingly. If the state of the game hangs on your downloading of 30mb track files that don't even record properly, I will let it be.

I posted a track at the very beginning of the thread, to show I cannot reproduce the issue. Prove me wrong, show me a track where Petrovitch is clueless, and I'll be very happy to report the issue as long as I witness it.

[LuseKofte]

4 hours ago, FusRoPotato said:

Thanks for reminding me of your limitations. I only recently hopped into a Mi-24 to try it because I heard about all the issues it was still having and was immediately able to verify. I am just parroting some of the experiences already shared here that must have shown up for no reason at all. The devs will take it or leave it, and I will invest my time and money accordingly. If the state of the game hangs on your downloading of 30mb track files that don't even record properly, I will let it be.

I am with Flappie on this. I cannot replicate some of the stories here at all and I fly it a lot. I can confirm that I partially had him not spotting targets. But kind of a realistic way. Not angry frustrating way like you expirienced. For all we know you got a mod interfere, or you simply ain’t doing it right. 
I myself have reported my own mistakes as a bug. Your tone is by the way very rude agains a man trying to help. Go out and take a beer or wrestle with a bear or whatever. Just do not act like this is that important. 
I personally think I got a cheat onboard most of the time. In servers he spots targets before he can identify what they are and I can choose target and kill 3 aa before coming too close and have to turn. A Human eye cannot spot what he does. 

Edited May 22, 2024 by LuseKofte

[FusRoPotato]

Everyone here has already done far more than necessary. I suggest you kick back and relax.

The developers don't need every detail spoon-fed to them like babies, and I don't need to waste my time explaining things to someone who seems more interested in proving bugs don't exist rather than addressing the issues multiple people have experienced and replicated with ease.

4 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I am with Flappie on this. I cannot replicate some of the stories here at all and I fly it a lot. I can confirm that I partially had him not spotting targets. But kind of a realistic way. Not angry frustrating way like you expirienced. For all we know you got a mod interfere, or you simply ain’t doing it right. 
I myself have reported my own mistakes as a bug. Your tone is by the way very rude agains a man trying to help. Go out and take a beer or wrestle with a bear or whatever. Just do not act like this is that important

I've heard similar dismissive remarks before about bugs that eventually got fixed without tracks. Numerous people put significant effort into name calling, shaming, and trying to prove the bug didn't exist because I refused to post a track.

It's neither my place nor motivation to volunteer effort that further supports entitlement and passive-aggressive deflection. If you want someone to be nice and cooperative, consider not being rude yourself first and learn how to be a little more sympathetic.

[Dangerzone]

Flappie is a unpaid beta tester volunteering his time. He's offer to help you was generously of his own doing. He (and others) have taken time out to test themselves, and has been unable to replicate. As a result he has asked numerous times for a track file so he can replicate the problem and observe what the causes can be so he can try to help further. He's not getting paid, and I sure don't blame him for not wanting to spend any more time with the ungrateful responses such as the above.

Something as simple as providing a track file would be of real help. If you don't have the patience to simply provide a track file as requested, why do you expect anyone, let alone non-paid volunteers to have more patience than you? To invest more time into your alleged bug trying different things that they already have done, and have been unable to reproduce unless they topple the gyro's? 

Yes - some bugs can be fixed without tracks - many probably because someone else was able to replicate them at a later date. That's what track files do. That of course is in situations where it is really a bug, and not another cause such as pilot error, of which we have no evidence one way or the other so far - which a track file would provide too. Or it could be specific to certain scenarios, such as particular units used, configurations, certain places on certain maps, etc. Stuff that could take weeks to try and identify, or... if someone who had already come across it and provided a track file so it could be replicated -  could possibly be identified within minutes. 

I get it. Bugs are frustrating. Things that aren't bugs, but I can't figure out why they're happening or what I'm doing wrong are frustrating too. Considering that the people who have been trying to help have volunteered their time out of their own good will, you may want to consider leading by example the advise you gave from your last paragraph.

Edited May 22, 2024 by Dangerzone

[admiki]

2 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Flappie is a unpaid beta tester volunteering his time. He's offer to help you was generously of his own doing. He (and others) have taken time out to test themselves, and has been unable to replicate. As a result he has asked numerous times for a track file so he can replicate the problem and observe what the causes can be so he can try to help further. He's not getting paid, and I sure don't blame him for not wanting to spend any more time with the ungrateful responses such as the above.

Something as simple as providing a track file would be of real help. If you don't have the patience to simply provide a track file as requested, why do you expect anyone, let alone non-paid volunteers to have more patience than you? To invest more time into your alleged bug trying different things that they already have done, and have been unable to reproduce unless they topple the gyro's? 

Yes - some bugs can be fixed without tracks - many probably because someone else was able to replicate them at a later date. That's what track files do. That of course is in situations where it is really a bug, and not another cause such as pilot error, of which we have no evidence one way or the other so far - which a track file would provide too. Or it could be specific to certain scenarios, such as particular units used, configurations, certain places on certain maps, etc. Stuff that could take weeks to try and identify, or... if someone who had already come across it and provided a track file so it could be replicated -  could possibly be identified within minutes. 

I get it. Bugs are frustrating. Things that aren't bugs, but I can't figure out why they're happening or what I'm doing wrong are frustrating too. Considering that the people who have been trying to help have volunteered their time out of their own good will, you may want to consider leading by example the advise you gave from your last paragraph.

 

It's lucky I have read this before I have responded to him. My response would at least get me a reprimand.

Thanky you.

[whataboutbob71]

21 hours ago, admiki said:

It's how ED set threat logic: SAM>AAA>>Tank>IFV>APC>Infantry. 

They also did implement some sort of distance variable, but I think above logic is primal over anything else

 

Than this logic is flawed because if an APC, Man pad, or bro's packing an AK is within their shooting range you're either dead or flying back to base for repairs. Closer threat's that are within their shooting range should always be greater than distant threats that aren't within shooting range. Immediate threats should always take higher priority, its a threat!

 

The problem with your "No Track, No problem" mantra is that my tracks are larger than what this site allows for upload. Increase the file size or offer an alternative to uploading here. The fact your not testing these product in an multiplayer environment is a issue with your testing methodology. If you did test in a multiplayer environment you will see that tracks get large very quickly and the issue may take time to render its head.

The example provided by your tester showed a Hind already in flight approaching known targets in what appeared to be a single player mission, this is not representative of what I as user experience. I start the aircraft from a cold start and have to traverse at least 20nm of flight before getting in the area of the targets. Then I have to repeatedly maneuver the aircraft around searching for targets and I do this a lot. And a majority of this time these are not abrupt movements unless I get fired at, so the sight isn't "borked" when doing this.

I hate Pete's voice to my core and my nightmares sound like "Searching....". But kidding aside I come here to see about getting these issues addressed by the company; not to get higher post rating on a forum site I hate coming to nor am I trying to make someone feel bad. I just want the module improved!