Any interesting or challenging flight dynamics?

[Zentaos]

6 hours ago, Vee.A said:

Bind the steering knob center command, and get in the habit of using it. Since we don't have a spring loaded knob it's very easy to drag the wheel and have no idea what's happening unless you visually look at the knob constantly. The centering button helps a fair bit

Wouldn't this cause a conflict with the physical position if you have it assigned to an axis? 

The question is if this is a feature or a bug. If it's realistic to drag the 'steering' wheel, does that mean that I am taxiing to fast?

[Talisman_VR]

For the steering knob I use the paddle (rudder) lever on my Thrustmaster TWCS throttle as it is spring loaded to the centre and works great.  

I have Crosswind rudder pedals, so I don't need to use the throttle paddle as a rudder and it is free to bind as the steering knob.

Works very well if you have a Thrustmaster TWCS throttle.

Happy landings,

Talisman

[Vee.A]

4 hours ago, Zentaos said:

Wouldn't this cause a conflict with the physical position if you have it assigned to an axis? 

The question is if this is a feature or a bug. If it's realistic to drag the 'steering' wheel, does that mean that I am taxiing to fast?

Sorry, I was giving that advice assuming the use of buttons instead of an axis. Come to think of it, I could use the antenna elevation axis on my winwing throttle which is spring loaded. I don't think a non spring loaded axis would work well

You'd have to talk to an SME for specifics, but I do know in many other modules (Hornet for example) with high gain steering it's pretty easy to drag the nose gear if you put a lot of input in, even at relatively slow speed (which I believe is generally considered to be pretty accurate). Though in the airplanes it's a lot easier to tell if you're doing it

[Rogue Trooper]

Is the rear rotor more powerful than the front rotor in forward flight?

In a hover, Pushing the yaw pedals left drops the front rotor to the left side which pulls the cockpit left, at the same time the rear rotor drops to the right which pulls the rear of the Cab to the right, this causes the aircraft to rotate around its true centre. In forward flight is the rear rotor more dominant when pushing the pedals?

I seem to have a slight feeling that at speed, I am pulling her arse around... which is nice if so.  

Are the pedals spring loaded in real life? The virtual pedals seem to automatically off set like the MI-8,  it pushes the virtual pedals out of sync with my real life non centring pedals. is this observation correct?

Also, flipping the rear wheels into castor mode (unlocked) seems to be a very good way to taxi with pedals, why is this discouraged... does it place additional strain on the centre/front of the airframe? if there is additional stress on the airframe then the nose in the air seems to be the best way to taxi.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2024 by Rogue Trooper

[Nealius]

On 8/20/2024 at 4:11 PM, Vee.A said:

Bind the steering knob center command, and get in the habit of using it. Since we don't have a spring loaded knob it's very easy to drag the wheel and have no idea what's happening unless you visually look at the knob constantly. The centering button helps a fair bit

Did this from day 0 and it still refuses to taxi in the direction I want it. I can be turning, set the knob to center, and the turn continues at a faster pace instead of straightening out. I never turn the knob any further than 50% left or right.

Edited August 21, 2024 by Nealius

[ChrisUK27]

9 hours ago, Nealius said:

Did this from day 0 and it still refuses to taxi in the direction I want it. I can be turning, set the knob to center, and the turn continues at a faster pace instead of straightening out. I never turn the knob any further than 50% left or right.

 

To taxy think of Chinook like a shopping trolley (Cart), the aft right has the power steering actuator and the aft left castors, the front do nothing. You can only turn the aft wheel so far before it goes 'Out of range', in this instance you'd see a warning caption and the power steering would disengage, to get it back in range sometimes you can lift into the hover (If possible) and the rear Flight engineer (Crewman) would give it a boot to get it back within range! The actuator would automatically pull the wheel back round to the centre (Switch selected). So if this model is anything like that then try no to do sharp turns, 50% may be too far.

Edited August 21, 2024 by ChrisUK27
Spelling

[ChrisUK27]

On 8/12/2024 at 1:38 PM, PilotMi8 said:

I will certainly accept your opinion 100% if you are a real pilot and tried these figures on a real CH-47D helicopter, and they came out completely differently for you or didn’t work out at all.

If not, then I will answer in detail.

 I agree with you that for early access, not all strength limitations of the helicopter design are implemented, as well as not all limitations on the helicopter systems (for example, hydraulic and fuel).
However, I am sure that in a real helicopter, the capabilities of the control system will allow you to do what you got on the virtual one. If the maneuvering characteristics differ - the radii of the trajectories of these maneuvers, angular speeds of rotation, then not significantly.
For example, the CH-53 easily performs both barrels and loops, despite the fact that it is a transport!))
The fact that no one does the aerobatic maneuvers you described on a real Chinook helicopter is a simple explanation. And you can easily figure this out yourself if you answer the question: for what task, bringing benefit according to the purpose of the helicopter, to do aerobatics on a real Chinook helicopter?

Any "loop" or "barrel" or as well as rotation around a vertical axis with exorbitant angular velocity on a real helicopter,  is a "minus" of several tens of hours of the fuselage and main rotor system resource.  Therefore, even on AH-64 Apache or Mi-28 99% of pilots do not train for this! It is expensive to maintain, given that the benefit of such maneuvers for a helicopter in combat is practically zero.

The only thing that can be useful and help in combat from the helicopter's aerobatics capabilities is the angular velocity of rotation along the bank (roll), and bit less often  - high pitch angular velocity. This will allow you to turn away from an or obstacle (or birds, or m.be burst of small arms fire)) in time or turn around faster in a mountain gorge.

In addition to the fact that when performing "loops" and "barrels" the fuselage and the main rotor system of helicopters are excessively loaded, there may be (or may not be) interruptions in the operation of the fuel and hydraulic systems. That is, it is desirable to have these systems prepared for such aerobatics during helicopter design. 

Let me remind you that in the flight model we simulate the most complete capabilities according to the aerodynamic characteristics of the helicopter and its control system. 
And of course, work on improving the flight models of helicopters and their control systems is still ongoing, but this is more a refinement of "details" and not at all the aerodynamic foundations of these models. Regarding the restrictions (limitations) on destructive overload, as well as on the operation of helicopter's systems under extreme conditions will be gradually added..

I think there's only ever been one instance of this happening on Chinook and they were lucky to come back in one piece. A fully articulated head doesn't like barrel rolls or loops. Probably the best example of the limits it flies to is demonstrated by the RAF Odiham Chinook display team, although that said in recent years they've had to tone it down a bit, but still incredibly impressive!

[Nealius]

1 hour ago, ChrisUK27 said:

So if this model is anything like that then try no to do sharp turns, 50% may be too far.

I guess the heliports in DCS world need to redesign their taxiways. Everything is a tight 90. At this point I have better luck with hover taxis, but they didn't do that operationally, did they?

Edited August 22, 2024 by Nealius

[dahui]

6 hours ago, ChrisUK27 said:

I think there's only ever been one instance of this happening on Chinook and they were lucky to come back in one piece. A fully articulated head doesn't like barrel rolls or loops. Probably the best example of the limits it flies to is demonstrated by the RAF Odiham Chinook display team, although that said in recent years they've had to tone it down a bit, but still incredibly impressive!

Physicly all rotor designs can do barrelrolls since you only have positive G when flown correctly. The issue is the velocity / power / speed you need to fly it from start to finish. The issue is more that you loose too much speed on the top, when you need it the most

Edited August 22, 2024 by dahui
Typo

[47_Driver]

On 8/20/2024 at 2:49 PM, Rogue Trooper said:

Is the rear rotor more powerful than the front rotor in forward flight?

In a hover, Pushing the yaw pedals left drops the front rotor to the left side which pulls the cockpit left, at the same time the rear rotor drops to the right which pulls the rear of the Cab to the right, this causes the aircraft to rotate around its true centre. In forward flight is the rear rotor more dominant when pushing the pedals?

I seem to have a slight feeling that at speed, I am pulling her arse around... which is nice if so.  

Are the pedals spring loaded in real life? The virtual pedals seem to automatically off set like the MI-8,  it pushes the virtual pedals out of sync with my real life non centring pedals. is this observation correct?

Also, flipping the rear wheels into castor mode (unlocked) seems to be a very good way to taxi with pedals, why is this discouraged... does it place additional strain on the centre/front of the airframe? if there is additional stress on the airframe then the nose in the air seems to be the best way to taxi.

 

 

 

There is a difference in "power" I guess between the aft and forward rotor system. Something like 10% but it's never noticeable in flight really. If you're at cruise and stomp the pedal it's still going to yaw around the center of the helicopter if you don't make any other flight control inputs, I don't really see why you would ever do this and in real life it would be a good way to blow all the windows out... If you're trying to roll the helicopter AND use pedal, which is how you have to turn in the current flight model, then yes you are technically swinging the tail around as you're applying cyclic and pedal in the same direction, which will cause the helicopter to yaw about the nose rather than the center. Opposite control inputs will cause the helicopter to yaw around the tail.

Pedals have a magnetic brake. They have a centering spring just like most other helicopters that is disengaged along with the Mag Brake when the Centering Device Release switch on the cyclic is pressed.

NEVER taxi a tandem rotor helicopter, ie. the Chinook using the pedals. This is not currently simulated in game but in the real helicopter can very quickly cause the helicopter to destroy itself due to exceeding droop stop limitations. It can also cause the helicopter to roll over. The droop stops are in place to keep the blades from hitting the fuselage. 2 Wheel Taxi is an option as well, and pedals are used for this as the helicopter has pitch in the blades and they are not resting on the droop stops.

[Rogue Trooper]

12 hours ago, Brickle said:

There is a difference in "power" I guess between the aft and forward rotor system. Something like 10% but it's never noticeable in flight really. If you're at cruise and stomp the pedal it's still going to yaw around the center of the helicopter if you don't make any other flight control inputs, I don't really see why you would ever do this and in real life it would be a good way to blow all the windows out... If you're trying to roll the helicopter AND use pedal, which is how you have to turn in the current flight model, then yes you are technically swinging the tail around as you're applying cyclic and pedal in the same direction, which will cause the helicopter to yaw about the nose rather than the center. Opposite control inputs will cause the helicopter to yaw around the tail.

Pedals have a magnetic brake. They have a centering spring just like most other helicopters that is disengaged along with the Mag Brake when the Centering Device Release switch on the cyclic is pressed.

NEVER taxi a tandem rotor helicopter, ie. the Chinook using the pedals. This is not currently simulated in game but in the real helicopter can very quickly cause the helicopter to destroy itself due to exceeding droop stop limitations. It can also cause the helicopter to roll over. The droop stops are in place to keep the blades from hitting the fuselage. 2 Wheel Taxi is an option as well, and pedals are used for this as the helicopter has pitch in the blades and they are not resting on the droop stops.

Thanks for the answers Brickle.

When accelerating, the Chinook seems to require a slow continuous pull back on the cyclic starting around 80 knots until the stick is almost neutral or just in negative inches at around 120 Knots. I guess when we do have DASH on our DCS Chinook, DASH will automatically pull the stick back so that the pilot does not need to do it... is this correct or am I wrong?

Great videos by the way.

 

[47_Driver]

1 hour ago, Rogue Trooper said:

Thanks for the answers Brickle.

When accelerating, the Chinook seems to require a slow continuous pull back on the cyclic starting around 80 knots until the stick is almost neutral or just in negative inches at around 120 Knots. I guess when we do have DASH on our DCS Chinook, DASH will automatically pull the stick back so that the pilot does not need to do it... is this correct or am I wrong?

Great videos by the way.

 

The DASH won't pull the cyclic back, the pilot will as the DASH extends and takes the place of that forward cyclic position. It's pretty cool but also weird to get used to.

Thanks!

[Whirley]

All the talk about tandem rotor flight characteristics got me interested in trying it out.

Indeed, without the stabilization it seems almost impossible to handle it. I wonder how pilots managed the first tandem helicopters.

With stabilization on it is a bit on rails, but currently there are still interesting characteristics present. I wonder how much will change with the rest of the control systems implemented, and if we will be able to turn them off selectively. We will see.

Hats off to ED for doing the barebones flightmodels too on their aircraft, not only the stabilized ones. I like that.

Edited September 5, 2024 by Whirley

[Nealius]

Has taxiing gotten worse for anyone else this last patch? It seems the wheel only responds when I manipulate the steering knob via mouse. Using keybinds or an axis, the steering knob moves, but the wheel does not (yes, switch is set to unlock the wheel).

[MAXsenna]

Has taxiing gotten worse for anyone else this last patch? It seems the wheel only responds when I manipulate the steering knob via mouse. Using keybinds or an axis, the steering knob moves, but the wheel does not (yes, switch is set to unlock the wheel).

Ah! I had set it to an axis. Didn't try it before the patch. Had to go very, very slowly in the turns. Couldn't get/see the wheel to turn in the F2 view.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Nealius]

Problem was between the stick and the seat. I had the steer switch set to "unlock" instead of "steer."

On another note, is the central trimmer messed up for anyone else? Before the update, pressing trim and releasing physical controls would keep the virtual controls in the desired position, but now the virtual controls become centered as well. Also on the controls indicator. Trim reset also doesn't appear to do anything anymore.

[Talisman_VR]

12 hours ago, Nealius said:

Problem was between the stick and the seat. I had the steer switch set to "unlock" instead of "steer."

On another note, is the central trimmer messed up for anyone else? Before the update, pressing trim and releasing physical controls would keep the virtual controls in the desired position, but now the virtual controls become centered as well. Also on the controls indicator. Trim reset also doesn't appear to do anything anymore.

Trim reset not working properly, but is being worked on.  See thread: 

 

[Whirley]

Somewhat offtopic, but since some doubted the flight model and that a transport helicopter can be very agile. I am no expert about helicopters. But here is a video of people testing a CH-53 with rolls and loops

 

[MAXsenna]

@Whirley We defo need a CH-53 now. Will we be able to spoof DCS AMRAAMs with that manoeuvre you think? I'm also impressed it could go 107 nuts! Makes sense!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Vee.A]

6 hours ago, Whirley said:

Somewhat offtopic, but since some doubted the flight model and that a transport helicopter can be very agile. I am no expert about helicopters. But here is a video of people testing a CH-53 with rolls and loops

 

In real life they also did loops in the Ka-50. 

That is a common thing with military transports it seems. They may look sluggish and clunky, but they normally fly the exact opposite 

[dahui]

You could also do a loop in a 2 blade. The only issue is the speed / velocity. Vne is not enough to pull and have enough speed to keep positive G on the top point of the loop

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, Vee.A said:

That is a common thing with military transports it seems. They may look sluggish and clunky, but they normally fly the exact opposite 

It makes sense when you think about it: the higher the cargo lift capability of the helicopter, the more excess power and rotor diameter it needs to be decently user friendly during operational use - especially when it’s supposed to operate in countries at high elevation such as Afghanistan.
So it should be able to do remarkable things when empty and low on fuel.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Raven (Elysian Angel)