Aim 120-C

[rayon89]

Hello, I am finding that since we entered the latest versions the Aim 120-c are useless, we practically have to reach the Dogfight by shooting them between mile 15 and mile 10 to be able to achieve a non-escape range.

They sold us a simulator but in reality what they want is to make an ARCADE game

[paco2002]

43 minutes ago, rayon89 said:

Hello, I am finding that since we entered the latest versions the Aim 120-c are useless, we practically have to reach the Dogfight by shooting them between mile 15 and mile 10 to be able to achieve a non-escape range.

They sold us a simulator but in reality what they want is to make an ARCADE game

Correct-as-is. Go fly at 35k-40k and M1.8 and you will be able to shoot at 30+NM

[Hobel]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb rayon89:

Hello, I am finding that since we entered the latest versions the Aim 120-c are useless, we practically have to reach the Dogfight by shooting them between mile 15 and mile 10 to be able to achieve a non-escape range.

They sold us a simulator but in reality what they want is to make an ARCADE game

What is the exact situation?  Track or tacview?

[rayon89]

Yes, but it turns out that an AIM 120-C has a range of 80 Miles....

[Hobel]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb rayon89:

Yes, but it turns out that an AIM 120-C has a range of 80 Miles....

Source?

And could you shed more light on the problematic situation?

[rayon89]

According to the technical characteristics of the AIM 120-C missile, it has an effective range of 65 miles. Anything shooting above 25 miles in DCS will most likely come to nothing....

hace 5 minutos, Hobel dijo:

Source?

And could you shed more light on the problematic situation?

AIM-120 AMRAAM - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

null

Wikipedia

https://es.wikipedia.org › wiki › AIM-120_AMRAAM

 

 

 

 

AIM-120 AMRAAM ; 180 mm · AIM-120A/B 55-75 km AIM-120C-5: 105 km. AIM-120C-7: 120 km. AIM-120D: 160 km 

[plott1964]

A2A Missile Max Engage Alt (Meters) Min Engage Alt (Meters) Max Engage Dist (Meters) Min Engage Dist (Meters) Min Spd (Kts) Midrange Spd (Kts) Max Mach Max Range (Meters) Kill Distance (Meters)  Lock Dist (Meters) AIM-200 20000 1 29000 700 140 700 4 90000 15 15000 AIM-120D 22000 1 44000 700 140 700 4 140000 15 18000 AIM-120C7 20000 1 29000 700 140 700 4 90000 15 15000 AIM-120C5 20000 1 20000 700 140 700 4 80000 15 15000 AIM-9X 18000 1 11000 200 140 350 2.7 14000 7 N/A
This is from the lua file data.

[Hobel]

vor 1 Minute schrieb rayon89:

According to the technical characteristics of the AIM 120-C missile, it has an effective range of 65 miles. Anything shooting above 25 miles in DCS will most likely come to nothing....

And that is more or less the case.  Be 30-45,000 feet high at least 1.5m fast gives the missle 20° loft and yeet the thing away.    

[Default774]

18 minutes ago, rayon89 said:

According to the technical characteristics of the AIM 120-C missile, it has an effective range of 65 miles. Anything shooting above 25 miles in DCS will most likely come to nothing....

AIM-120 AMRAAM - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

null

Wikipedia

https://es.wikipedia.org › wiki › AIM-120_AMRAAM

 

 

 

 

AIM-120 AMRAAM ; 180 mm · AIM-120A/B 55-75 km AIM-120C-5: 105 km. AIM-120C-7: 120 km. AIM-120D: 160 km 

If you take the wikipedia number of 105km/~55nmi at face value, this is perfectly achievable with the in-game amraam provided you have good enough launch parameters. In the future, try to get up to at least 40000ft and manually loft your missile about 20° up.

You'll also need something more substantial than a range number on wikipedia without context if you want ED to change the kinematics .

Edited May 13, 2024 by Default774

[Hobel]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb rayon89:

According to the technical characteristics of the AIM 120-C missile, it has an effective range of 65 miles. Anything shooting above 25 miles in DCS will most likely come to nothing....

AIM-120 AMRAAM - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

null

Wikipedia

https://es.wikipedia.org › wiki › AIM-120_AMRAAM

 

 

 

 

AIM-120 AMRAAM ; 180 mm · AIM-120A/B 55-75 km AIM-120C-5: 105 km. AIM-120C-7: 120 km. AIM-120D: 160 km 

And where does it say under what conditions the missle should be able to do this? As I said, our aim120 can achieve these values if the conditions are right  

 

 

Btw Wiki ist not a source

 

[rayon89]

We are talking about effective range data, not maximum range which has to be around 180 KM in the best conditions....

We are talking about classified information, which only the army has, but basically, in this game if you want to eliminate something safely with a 120C you have to shoot it between mile 20 and mile 14.
For me to understand that is not BVR

[falcon_120]

We are talking about effective range data, not maximum range which has to be around 180 KM in the best conditions....
We are talking about classified information, which only the army has, but basically, in this game if you want to eliminate something safely with a 120C you have to shoot it between mile 20 and mile 14.
For me to understand that is not BVR

You are failing to understand what range means for a missile. I guess you are new to the modern air combat/bvr world.

To put it as simple as possible, a weapon stated range is meaningless without the accompanying launch conditions and even enemy airplane speed and altitude.

A missile hitting an enemy plane at 50 NM at high altitude and high closing speed will struggle to hit a cold enemy plane at sea level at 6/7 nm. That is how much aspect, altitude and speed is relevant to saying a missile has X nm range.

Wikipedia stated range are normally optimal conditions, so consider >30k altitude >M1.2 shot on a coaltitude bandit coming hot at you at roughly the same speed. You apply those rules and you have a 50NM missile already in game. Ive managed a 60nm kill against an unware player in the GS server with the current Aim120C.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[paco2002]

1 hour ago, rayon89 said:

...you have to shoot it between mile 20 and mile 14.
For me to understand that is not BVR

Yes it is sir. 

[Coxy_99]

Seems a you problem, No offense, Nothing really wrong with the 120 at all. Shoot in better parameters of the target.

[ACS_Dev]

On 5/13/2024 at 1:29 PM, plott1964 said:

A2A Missile Max Engage Alt (Meters) My Engage Everything (Meters) Max Engage Dist (Meters) Min Engage Dist (Meters) Min Spd (Kts) Midrange Spd (Kts) Max Mach Max Range (Meters) Kill Distance (Meters)   Lock Dist (Meters) AIM-200 20000 1 29000 700 140 700 4 90000 15 15000 AIM-120D 22000 1 44000 700 140 700 4 140000 15 18000 AIM-120C7 20000 1 29000 700 140 700 4 90000 15 15000 AIM-120C5 20000 1 20000 700 140 700 4 80000 15 15000 AIM-9X 18000 1 11000 200 140 350 2.7 14000 7 N/A
This is from the lua file data.

What lua file data? Where is this lua file?

[icecold951]

On 5/13/2024 at 2:24 PM, rayon89 said:

According to the technical characteristics of the AIM 120-C missile, it has an effective range of 65 miles. Anything shooting above 25 miles in DCS will most likely come to nothing....

AIM-120 AMRAAM - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

null

Wikipedia

https://es.wikipedia.org › wiki › AIM-120_AMRAAM

 

 

 

 

AIM-120 AMRAAM ; 180 mm · AIM-120A/B 55-75 km AIM-120C-5: 105 km. AIM-120C-7: 120 km. AIM-120D: 160 km 

There is a lot that goes into PK for missiles against aircraft. One is what are you shooting at? A fighter can evade a lot better than a bomber can. On fighters closing on each other, the C has a practical range of 20 nm at high altitude.

[plott1964]

On 5/16/2024 at 10:42 AM, ACS_Dev said:

What lua file data? Where is this lua file?

I got that data from the weapon lua files in the F-15EX mod

    F-15EX/Weapons/Loadouts

Edited June 17, 2024 by plott1964

[ACS_Dev]

1 hour ago, plott1964 said:

I got that data from the weapon lua files in the F-15EX mod

That is not a credible source...It could be implied that you are talking about ED code (which itself may be of dubious veracity), not a mod made by a unverified source.

[Mike_Romeo]

On 5/13/2024 at 7:26 PM, rayon89 said:

Hello, I am finding that since we entered the latest versions the Aim 120-c are useless, we practically have to reach the Dogfight by shooting them between mile 15 and mile 10 to be able to achieve a non-escape range.

They sold us a simulator but in reality what they want is to make an ARCADE game

Read this article about how ED made the Aim-120 and say again DCS is a arcade game. Its obvious that you don't have any knowledge about aerodynamics or physics at all.

 

[ruxtmp]

4 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

Read this article about how ED made the Aim-120 and say again DCS is a arcade game. Its obvious that you don't have any knowledge about aerodynamics or physics at all.

 

A simple 90 deg left or right hand level turn will defeat almost any shot and if that fails just barrel roll. I'm sure all those graphs get the range accuracy pretty good but its seeker tech is on par with something from the early 1960s.

[rayon89]

En 1/6/2024 a las 15:11, Mike_Romeo dijo:

Read this article about how ED made the Aim-120 and say again DCS is a arcade game. Its obvious that you don't have any knowledge about aerodynamics or physics at all.

 

With this new version now also the 120c missiles are lost with the use of flares ..... it is impossible that a F5E can evade a 120c fired from mile 9 .... This is definitely not a simulation game

[Hobel]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb rayon89:

With this new version now also the 120c missiles are lost with the use of flares ..... it is impossible that a F5E can evade a 120c fired from mile 9 .... This is definitely not a simulation game

 can you please upload a track of your scenario, otherwise we can't help you, you have also skilfully ingorised explanations from other users so far

[rayon89]

hace 1 hora, Hobel dijo:

 can you please upload a track of your scenario, otherwise we can't help you, you have also skilfully ingorised explanations from other users so far

https://we.tl/t-GetgPMCXP5 

[rayon89]

At minute 18 you will be able to observe how the 120C missile loses the lock due to the flares..... Missiles according to the flight calculator to make impact have to be launched around mile 10 ... even so, an F5E manages to avoid it, do you really think what if an F18 launches a 120C from mile 8, locking the target, will it manage to dodge it with flares?

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

On 5/13/2024 at 2:10 PM, paco2002 said:

Go fly at 35k-40k and M1.8 and you will be able to shoot at 30+NM

This is simply not practical for most jets. Just read about what happens to a clean F-16 when it gets to around Mach 1.6. 
https://www.sandboxx.us/news/approaching-mach-2-in-an-f-16-the-jet-started-to-shake/

Anyway the reason I bring this up is yes, while I think rayon89 is very much overstating the capabilities of the AIM-120, the fact that you have to launch it from that energy state for it to be effective is shall we say, questionable. 

Edited June 3, 2024 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT