Bare metal textures

[tripod3]

How to paint them?

[razo+r]

Basically, in a nutshell:

On the base texture, give them the color you want it to have.

On the roughmet texture, give it the necessary black/white value in the appropriate channel (Red = AO, Green = Roughness, Blue = Metallic). 

Once you have the basic textures set up, load them in the modelviewer and adjust as necessary.

[tripod3]

How do you draw small details: smudges, rust, dents? Is it better to take a photo and use it as a basis for texture and roughmets?

Screen_190317_213655.bmp

For exaple this is bad texture, without neccecary  details

Edited May 23, 2024 by tripod3

[razo+r]

There are thousands of different techniques how to do rust/smudges, best is probably if you quickly go to Youtube and look for a quick tutorial.

As for dents, those are probably best done in the Normal/Bump map

[grim_reaper68]

A good topic here 

 

[Doughguy]

On 5/23/2024 at 1:43 PM, tripod3 said:

How to paint them?

First, be aware that Physical Based Rendering has changed alot in the last years.

Materials are defined by their Albedo (Color, in total shadowless lightning), Roughness, and if the surface is metallic or not.

There are libraries that have gather info on such values, especially the albeo. Alluminium eg is nearly white, even if it appears light grey to your eyes, but that is because of the lightning your eyes percieve. Look up global illumination.

So the albedo/diffuse defines color, which often doesnt have to be THAT detailed.
Eg scratches, unless you have deep crevices filled with dirt, would be done in the roughness map. And then you say if these areas are metallic or not.
Dents etc are done with the normal.

The same goes for any other detailin. The steps are roughly the same.

As for dirt etc, yes photos can be of great value to use as masks. Nothing beats real life reference. Gather it, hoard it.

Just dont slap it on and call it a day.

It really depends on what you want to achieve.

Depending on what i have at hand (3d model or not), ill make sure i have a detailed normal map first.

With my doras, i used a greyscale value image to go for panels, rivets screws etc first, which once done, will serve as a map for normals and a mask for various things.

If this is done, i generate my normal map off of that greyscale.

With various tools, such as Xnormal, i generate my normals or other things i find necessary.

Next would be the albedo / diffuse.

I start with a bare metal layer, and add another layer on top as a base "paint" layer". over that i blend the above mentioned greyscale map, so that i can see what part i paint.

Id add a mask to the paint layer and "scratch" off paint in the mask.

On top of the paint layer id add dust, dirt etc utlizing the greyscale as a mask to simulate dirt accumulation and such as desired.

Once the diffuse is done, i create my roughness and metallic map off of the aforementioned albedo, and then combine these for the roughness map that is used ingame.

 

The process is long and takes some trial and error. However, observation and hence reference are key. Take your time, be a magpie and observe where dirt is accumulatin, how does the paint look in certain conditions, is the roughness even all the time? (it is not), etc. and then you go from there.

The key to a very good texture in the PBR space is the roughness map. That one will give you the most interesting and detailed appearance, even without a diffuse and normal.

On 5/23/2024 at 9:37 PM, lee1hy said:

Search wiki 

Wow...

[tripod3]

1 hour ago, Doughguy said:

First, be aware that Physical Based Rendering has changed alot in the last years.

Materials are defined by their Albedo (Color, in total shadowless lightning), Roughness, and if the surface is metallic or not.

There are libraries that have gather info on such values, especially the albeo. Alluminium eg is nearly white, even if it appears light grey to your eyes, but that is because of the lightning your eyes percieve. Look up global illumination.

So the albedo/diffuse defines color, which often doesnt have to be THAT detailed.
Eg scratches, unless you have deep crevices filled with dirt, would be done in the roughness map. And then you say if these areas are metallic or not.
Dents etc are done with the normal.

The same goes for any other detailin. The steps are roughly the same.

As for dirt etc, yes photos can be of great value to use as masks. Nothing beats real life reference. Gather it, hoard it.

Just dont slap it on and call it a day.

It really depends on what you want to achieve.

Depending on what i have at hand (3d model or not), ill make sure i have a detailed normal map first.

With my doras, i used a greyscale value image to go for panels, rivets screws etc first, which once done, will serve as a map for normals and a mask for various things.

If this is done, i generate my normal map off of that greyscale.

With various tools, such as Xnormal, i generate my normals or other things i find necessary.

Next would be the albedo / diffuse.

I start with a bare metal layer, and add another layer on top as a base "paint" layer". over that i blend the above mentioned greyscale map, so that i can see what part i paint.

Id add a mask to the paint layer and "scratch" off paint in the mask.

On top of the paint layer id add dust, dirt etc utlizing the greyscale as a mask to simulate dirt accumulation and such as desired.

Once the diffuse is done, i create my roughness and metallic map off of the aforementioned albedo, and then combine these for the roughness map that is used ingame.

 

The process is long and takes some trial and error. However, observation and hence reference are key. Take your time, be a magpie and observe where dirt is accumulatin, how does the paint look in certain conditions, is the roughness even all the time? (it is not), etc. and then you go from there.

The key to a very good texture in the PBR space is the roughness map. That one will give you the most interesting and detailed appearance, even without a diffuse and normal.

Wow...

This is exactly how I needed to see the process, through the eyes of another master, thank you Doughguy

[tripod3]

6 hours ago, lee1hy said:

Still can't find it on wiki? 

 

It's ridiculous to criticize other people's content when you can't even make bare metal.

Still can't find it on wiki? 

 

It's ridiculous to criticize other people's content when you can't even make bare metal.

It's funny this guy attack others can't even make super simple bare metal. 

Hello, my friend, dear ambassador of textures creation, any help appreciated!

[cookiemonste]

Hey Tripod, what I would recommend you is decompile some existing roughmets with the editing program of your choice to see how they are built.
If you want bare metal, you work with the blue channel mostly.
Blue is the metallic channel, Green is how glossy/dull your metal is.
White/Black are the extreme end of each channel. White being super matte while black is super glossy in the green channel.
And in the blue channel, black is more metalic while white is more non metalic. 
It's best to work in channels, gives you more control.

There is a ghetto/brute force method though.
You paint your roughment, like you paint a livery.
Look at the roughmet of a metalic livery and paint it the same colours as that roughmet.

I did this in the beginning or do it when I need a quick and dirty roughmet for something.

I hope this helps a little.
It's hard to exlain it in text, best is to experiment.

Edited June 9, 2024 by cookiemonste

[Megalax]

23 hours ago, lee1hy said:

Still can't find it on wiki? 

 

It's ridiculous to criticize other people's content when you can't even make bare metal.

Still can't find it on wiki? 

 

It's ridiculous to criticize other people's content when you can't even make bare metal.

It's funny this guy attack others can't even make super simple bare metal. 

I think you're confusing usernames here, Kim.

tripod3 is not the same username as thepod.

[Wyvern]

23 hours ago, lee1hy said:

It's funny this guy attack others can't even make super simple bare metal. 

A lot coming from a guy who's in-game skins dont even have Mipmaps

Edited June 9, 2024 by Wyvern

[Awacs_bandog]

18 hours ago, tripod3 said:

Hello, my friend, dear ambassador of textures creation, any help appreciated!

You're better off not asking Leehy since he's less than Helpful. 


the quick and dirty explanation is for a proper bare metal (think OG F-104) skin, you're going to need to muck with the Roughmets of the skin on top of the default diffuse layer. Megalax had some great vids on Youtube that I cannot currently find, but if I see any tutorials of comparable quality I will return with them that can go deeper in on how Roughmets work (that is a forum post unto itself). 

Depending on how shiny you want the aircraft, I advise you look at the default MiG-15 or MiG-21 files to get an idea. the Diffuse layer main color for the bare metal parts should be a very light grey or close to off-white as you can. (For a beginner, just play by ear using your eyeball mk 1, see what you think works)

The Roughmet for the Baremetal parts should be a Pink to Magenta color (again depending on the reflectivity you're looking for). If you want a more brushed aluminum look, the P-51's Roughmets are also a good place to look for a bare metal, yet dull look.


I apologize if thats hard to follow, again I will return later if I can find a better explanation. And at the end of the day, You will find theres many ways to skin this particular cat, and my method isn't going to be the same way of creating aircraft dermatitis as other people's methods.  


UPDATE:
I found a decent tutorial explaining the process of Roughmet material creation

 

Edited June 10, 2024 by Awacs_bandog

[Mach3DS]

23 hours ago, tripod3 said:

Hello, my friend, dear ambassador of textures creation, any help appreciated!

You do realize that he's trolling and making fun of you, right?

[Wyvern]

Better than purple artifact wrong color

You do know that mipmaps have NOTHING to do with color?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[BIGNEWY]

No matter who you are please treat everyone with respect on this forum, the rules apply to everyone. 

thread cleaned

[grim_reaper68]

Hi

Following this post since a moment, having being in the same situation, I want to add some information. I've made some test for you on my test model so you can see how the roughmet texture color influence the appearance of the model.

 

as you can see the rectangle of the right of the roughmet texture gives the appearance of the damper. So with full red, it look blurred. Below you can see an in game sreenshot.

With full blue it's really glossy but doesn't reflect any kind of environment, except the lights.

in game screen

 

full green gives you a very mate appearance, without any reflection.

In game

 

In your case, as said above by other guys, you have to try with pink/purple colors to find which one is the best for you. But don't expect to have a real mirror. I don't think DCS is able to reflect the real full environment.

Here are 2 examples with pink and purple roughmet texture

first the pink one (100% red, 100% blue and 0% green)

ingame

now purple (100% red, 60%blue and 0% green)

and ingame

 

I don't know if you're using gimp or other software. But feel free to try, and export your roughmet texture to your model and test it directly in DCS. You only have to make a mission with your model, then start it look at the result quit the mission, then import your next texture and just click refly the mission, so you can look at the changes of your roughmet texture.

Edited June 10, 2024 by grim_reaper68

[Megalax]

5 minutes ago, grim_reaper68 said:

Hi

Following this post since a moment, having being in the same situation, I want to add some information. I've made some test for you on my test model so you can see how the roughmet texture color influence the appearance of the model.

 

as you can see the rectangle of the right of the roughmet texture gives the appearance of the damper. So with full red, it look blurred. Below you can see an in game sreenshot.

With full blue it's really glossy but doesn't reflect any kind of environment, except the lights.

in game screen

 

full green gives you a very mate appearance, without any reflection.

In game

 

In your case, as said above by other guys, you have to try with pink/purple colors to find which one is the best for you. But don't expect to have a real mirror. I don't think DCS is able to reflect the real full environment.

Here are 2 examples with pink and purple roughmet texture

first the pink one (100% red, 100% blue and 0% green)

ingame

now purple (100% red, 60%blue and 0% green)

and ingame

 

I don't know if you're using gimp or other software. But feel free to try, and export your roughmet texture to your model and test it directly in DCS. You only have to make a mission with your model, then start it look at the result quit the mission, then import your next texture and just click refly the mission, so you can look at the changes of your roughmet texture.

 

No need to make a mission, just load it up in Model Viewer.

[grim_reaper68]

7 minutes ago, Megalax said:

No need to make a mission, just load it up in Model Viewer.

But in the Model viewer, there are not as representative as in the game in my mind.

[grim_reaper68]

here an example. The roughmet pattern has at top left (green will be always at 0%) Red:100% , Blue: 30%, then top right, Red:100%, blue 60%, bottom left, Red: 85%, Blue: 100%, and bottom right, Red: 100%.

here the result in the model viewer (caucasus display)

 

And now ingame

I just took a look, and saw that the texture on the right side where inverted. So I just took some screens of the left side, so the roughmet matches with the sreens. Best result in my mind is the 100% red.

As you can see, the more blue you put, blurrier is the reflection.

 

Edited June 10, 2024 by grim_reaper68

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

35 minutes ago, grim_reaper68 said:

Hi

Following this post since a moment, having being in the same situation, I want to add some information. I've made some test for you on my test model so you can see how the roughmet texture color influence the appearance of the model.

 

as you can see the rectangle of the right of the roughmet texture gives the appearance of the damper. So with full red, it look blurred. Below you can see an in game sreenshot.

With full blue it's really glossy but doesn't reflect any kind of environment, except the lights.

in game screen

 

full green gives you a very mate appearance, without any reflection.

In game

 

In your case, as said above by other guys, you have to try with pink/purple colors to find which one is the best for you. But don't expect to have a real mirror. I don't think DCS is able to reflect the real full environment.

Here are 2 examples with pink and purple roughmet texture

first the pink one (100% red, 100% blue and 0% green)

ingame

now purple (100% red, 60%blue and 0% green)

and ingame

 

I don't know if you're using gimp or other software. But feel free to try, and export your roughmet texture to your model and test it directly in DCS. You only have to make a mission with your model, then start it look at the result quit the mission, then import your next texture and just click refly the mission, so you can look at the changes of your roughmet texture.

 

These are really good demonstrations. However, I rarely paint the roughmet in colors prefering to work in greyscale in the Blue and Green channels. I find it more predictable that way. I wonder if you could post those same examples but showing the respective grays of the Blue and Green channels? It might be a good reference for skinners to refer to. 

[grim_reaper68]

I don't know this method. I discovered roughmet material few months ago. If you can explain me or if you have a link for a tutorial. So I can take a look.

 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

When I get a chance later I'll try and make some example screenshots.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

This image shows the reflectivity (glossiness) from aft (most glossy) to fwd (most flat) and metallicness from left to right (pilot's view) from most to least metallic. The albido color is 35% gray. This can have a large influence for bare metal depiction and needs trial and error for each module. Note that the major influence here is the glossiness in the green channel (as far as depiction of bare metal goes). Also, the angle of the sun plays a major role as well. Again, lots of trial and error.

This is the Roughmet dds.

This shows the green channel (Glossiness) from Black (Glossy) to 50% gray (Matte) left to right.

This shows the Blue channel (Metallicness) from White (Most metallic) to 50% Gray (Less metallic) top to bottom.

Edited June 11, 2024 by II.JG1_Vonrd

[grim_reaper68]

Interesting method, in fact. On my side, I'm using the RGB cursors to setup the color.  

[Wyvern]

just keep in mind that you should not change anything in the Red channel. as it is for the Ambient Occlusion, which basically controls how light interacts with certain spots where light wouldnt get to as easily.
(i know a certain someone who is going to hate the way i explain it)
It basically creates a kind of shadow for those spots to say it in the most simple way.
 

nullYou can see it in this picture here, how the left side of the engine seems to be darker, or how the corner on the spine seems to have a sort of shadow. That is basically what the AO does here.

Edited June 11, 2024 by Wyvern