CPU bound with only 20-30 FPS (even with lowest settings)

[emc]

Looks like starting F-4 is a huge CPU performance impact. With Ka-50, F-14 etc. on the ramp in Caucasus map I got 80-90 FPS

But in F-4 (same scenario) I got 20-30 FPS and FPS pop-up says CPU bound

I try follow tip from user “Mederlock”:
 

Quote

in the task manager details page, dcs.exe->set affinity->de-select the first core. If you check the DCS log file you can even see which of your cores perform the worst and de-select those specifically. 

in dcs.log I see, so in my case it really does not matter (however I try anyway):

2024-05-24 10:37:21.038 INFO    EDCORE (Main): system  affinity mask: 11111111
2024-05-24 10:37:21.038 INFO    EDCORE (Main): process affinity mask: 11111111
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700 CPU @ 3.60GHz [1x L3 caches]
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): CPU has uniform cache size 8 MB (per cache)
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): all CPU cores have the same efficiency class 0
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): all CPU cores have the same performance class 0
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): common cores: {4, 5, 6, 7}
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): render cores: {0, 1, 2, 3}
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): IO cores: {}
2024-05-24 10:37:23.113 INFO    EDCORE (Main): pause10: 0.037503 us (std dev: 0.058880)
2024-05-24 10:37:23.113 INFO    EDCORE (Main): pause10: 1311 cycles (std dev: 1858.1)
2024-05-24 10:37:23.114 INFO    EDCORE (Main): Created boot pool: n:8

I do not have high end PC i7 7700 with 1080 8 GB and 32 GB RAM but go form 80 to 30 FPS is really low (during flight and maneuvers I got ~10 FPS)

But here a kicker I set all setting to lowest possible values and no change at all still 20-30 FPS

See normal and low settings in screen shot. If this a problem with F-4 itself (not my system or some my specific problem) I'm willing to help and debug and troubleshooting. It easy reproduceable in my system I would like to pin point root cause, I can collect any logs run any diagnostic or even some additional tools to solve issue out.

Thx!

PS. I noticed during starting/loading F-4 mission I hit 32 Gb RAM usage.... just before window with Fly button, and then it drops....

Edited May 24, 2024 by emc
typo

[Tiger-II]

The 1080 is the problem. I had an i7 9700K @ 5 GHz paired with a 1080 and got maybe 60 FPS with the Mi-8.

I changed it a couple of months back to a 4070 Ti Super, and now get 250 FPS.

The CPU isn't the problem; the GPU is!

No, I don't run the BS "frame generation". That junk is turned off!!!

Edited May 24, 2024 by Tiger-II

[Czar66]

37 minutes ago, Tiger-II said:

The 1080 is the problem. I had an i7 9700K @ 5 GHz paired with a 1080 and got maybe 60 FPS with the Mi-8.

I changed it a couple of months back to a 4070 Ti Super, and now get 250 FPS.

The CPU isn't the problem; the GPU is!

No, I don't run the BS "frame generation". That junk is turned off!!!

 

The Mi-8 is not the F-4. That's comparing a complete different scenario. Look at his CPU usage on the graph.

To OP:

I'm afraid it is CPU related, at least for the moment. Same issues here while no other module gave me any cpu issue, even the F-15E.

i5 10400, 64gb RAM, RTX 3060 12GB, frames capped at 40 for consistency, 1080p 2D.

Edited May 24, 2024 by Czar66

[emc]

42 minutes ago, Tiger-II said:

The 1080 is the problem. I had an i7 9700K @ 5 GHz paired with a 1080 and got maybe 60 FPS with the Mi-8.

I changed it a couple of months back to a 4070 Ti Super, and now get 250 FPS.

The CPU isn't the problem; the GPU is!

No, I don't run the BS "frame generation". That junk is turned off!!!

I tend to disagree....
with F-4 I got:
- CPU bound 30 FPS
- CPU lode is 70% (task mgr)
- GPU load is 30% (task mgr)

with F-18 I got:
- GPU bound 90 FPS
- CPU load is 40% (task mgr)
- GPU load is 95%(task mgr)
 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Perhaps you'll need to wait until ANVIL becomes multi-threaded? It is an old CPU and perhaps it is stressed a bit too much...
Did you try the "lower simulation polling rate" or whatever it is called in the special options?

The Hornet is most likely a much less sophisticated module when it comes to all the stuff that is being calculated behind the scenes, hence the much higher CPU performance on your system  

[Czar66]

4 minutes ago, emc said:

I tend to disagree....
with F-4 I got:
- CPU bound 30 FPS
- CPU lode is 70% (task mgr)
- GPU load is 30% (task mgr)

with F-18 I got:
- GPU bound 90 FPS
- CPU load is 40% (task mgr)
- GPU load is 95%(task mgr)
 

Thanks for the data. The module is mega heavy on CPUs as it is becoming clear.

I've sent the scenario I was testing the module to a person with a Ryzen 7 7800x3d, which is a little more than double the multicore score of my i5 10400 and he was mostly without issues. Still with some stutters but nothing like I'm experiencing.

[PhantomHans]

...So how bad is my FX8350 gonna choke?

[Snowblind]

@PHANTOMHANS  i wouldn't even bother with a cpu that old

[PhantomHans]

53 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

@PHANTOMHANS  i wouldn't even bother with a cpu that old

Tbh it's been running all the modules I own (Except for the bew F-4E which is a crash-o-matic so far in the tutorials) just fine. 

And even then I think that's GPU...Not sure yet...

Although it's overclocked and I do have to run at relatively "meh" graphics settings I came to DCS from SFP2 so it still looks better.

 

Heck I'm running above min settings and getting to my 60fps limit when doing 1v2 F4 vs MiG-21.

If it doesn't crash my only problem seems to be Jester can't find anything on radar BVR.

Edited May 24, 2024 by PhantomHans

[Tiger-II]

New GPU or new computer...I know which is cheaper. My $0.02.

Look at this way: if the new GPU doesn't help, you only need to buy the rest of the computer. Absolutely nothing is lost.

4070 Ti Super is a great card, but be sure to get the Ti Super. There are so many 4070 models, it is confusing as hell. ONLY the TiS shares the same GPU core as the 4080.

[speed-of-heat]

Try increasing your page file size to be equal to your RAM

[PhantomHans]

32 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

Try increasing your page file size to be equal to your RAM

Is he on an old school HDD instead of an SSD, and if so, could that be his issue?

My vintage POS box is an FX8350 I've OC'd to 4.6ghz, 32gb of 1600mhz DDR3 pushed close to 1700, no paging file, and a 6gb RTX 2060 which isn't really great, but OS and game installed on SSD...

The F-4E module is causing me random crashes and I had to drop my detail settings for it to get acceptable FPS.  I get FPS in the 30-60 (my FPS cap) range in simple missions with the F-4E.  For example, 2v2 F-4E vs MiG-21 on the Nevada map.  My problem with the F-4E module so far is the random crashes rather than FPS although I admit my system is DEFINITELY struggling with it.  I can't tell if my crashes are CPU or GPU related, but I REALLY hope that somebody from Heatblur (Maybe I should @IronMike?) will see if they can make another option, at least for a while, to heavily chop away at some of the F-4E's level of detail in systems modeling and help out those of us with sucky systems.  Even if it's a single-player only feature, at least for now, it would be great to be able to simplify it's modeling while it's teething and being improved.

 

Obviously, I am due for a new motherboard, RAM, and processor...But...Look it's what I've got...Tax return time...Or maybe my next quarterly bonus check...
My usual DCS settings:

Where I've turned it all down to get the F-4E flying so far in simple 2v2 type missions:null

[Loukuins]

On 5/24/2024 at 1:12 PM, emc said:

Looks like starting F-4 is a huge CPU performance impact. With Ka-50, F-14 etc. on the ramp in Caucasus map I got 80-90 FPS

But in F-4 (same scenario) I got 20-30 FPS and FPS pop-up says CPU bound

I try follow tip from user “Mederlock”:
 

in dcs.log I see, so in my case it really does not matter (however I try anyway):

2024-05-24 10:37:21.038 INFO    EDCORE (Main): system  affinity mask: 11111111
2024-05-24 10:37:21.038 INFO    EDCORE (Main): process affinity mask: 11111111
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700 CPU @ 3.60GHz [1x L3 caches]
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): CPU has uniform cache size 8 MB (per cache)
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): all CPU cores have the same efficiency class 0
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): all CPU cores have the same performance class 0
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): common cores: {4, 5, 6, 7}
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): render cores: {0, 1, 2, 3}
2024-05-24 10:37:21.042 INFO    EDCORE (Main): IO cores: {}
2024-05-24 10:37:23.113 INFO    EDCORE (Main): pause10: 0.037503 us (std dev: 0.058880)
2024-05-24 10:37:23.113 INFO    EDCORE (Main): pause10: 1311 cycles (std dev: 1858.1)
2024-05-24 10:37:23.114 INFO    EDCORE (Main): Created boot pool: n:8

I do not have high end PC i7 7700 with 1080 8 GB and 32 GB RAM but go form 80 to 30 FPS is really low (during flight and maneuvers I got ~10 FPS)

But here a kicker I set all setting to lowest possible values and no change at all still 20-30 FPS

See normal and low settings in screen shot. If this a problem with F-4 itself (not my system or some my specific problem) I'm willing to help and debug and troubleshooting. It easy reproduceable in my system I would like to pin point root cause, I can collect any logs run any diagnostic or even some additional tools to solve issue out.

Thx!

PS. I noticed during starting/loading F-4 mission I hit 32 Gb RAM usage.... just before window with Fly button, and then it drops....

 

Get a new CPU, the 7700 is too old for flight sim, you might have more FPS in the ST maybe

[DrGarantia]

Same issue here with an 5800X3D, massive frametime variations (constantly hitting 50ms or more) and a terrible average of 33 FPS in any somewhat complex missions (Grayflag MP server). That same CPU is capable of ~180-230 FPS for every other module. Even their own cold start mission FPS is limited to about 90 before start-up, that is less than half the average of other modules.
HB is probably looking at it for now, wait and see what happens.

[emc]

3 hours ago, Loukuins said:

Get a new CPU, the 7700 is too old for flight sim, you might have more FPS in the ST maybe

Yeah, maybe... need check what which one will fit into motherboard's socket and will be supported by....

[PhantomHans]

8 minutes ago, emc said:

Yeah, maybe... need check what which one will fit into motherboard's socket and will be supported by....

What's your current CPU cooler?  Air or liquid?

I wouldn't expect miracles, but, for now, if you're OK with overclocking it a little bit you may get it atleast playable.

[emc]

38 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

What's your current CPU cooler?  Air or liquid?

I wouldn't expect miracles, but, for now, if you're OK with overclocking it a little bit you may get it atleast playable.

Air, I think I have model without OC capabilities...

[Cobra847]

We had some testers using a 7700k and it ran fairly well; so there's something else at play here.

Also; can you try turning on the "Reduced Tickrates" option in the special options?

[PhantomHans]

12 minutes ago, Cobra847 said:

We had some testers using a 7700k and it ran fairly well; so there's something else at play here.

Also; can you try turning on the "Reduced Tickrates" option in the special options?

I'm on an OC'd FX8350, so, yhea...Could be something else.

Other than my random crashes, so far I'm reasonably happy.

 

Reduced Tickrates seemed to improve my stability and fps slightly. 

1 hour ago, emc said:

Air, I think I have model without OC capabilities...

I'm not familiar with OC on that chip...

On air I would,  after making sure something else isn't the problem, if you can OC it, do so very carefully and very mild.

[emc]

2 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

We had some testers using a 7700k and it ran fairly well; so there's something else at play here.

Also; can you try turning on the "Reduced Tickrates" option in the special options?

With Reduced Tickrates I got up to 30-50 FPS, so definitely it helps. If I fly closer to airport with planes, there are drops to 10 FPS. I lower some graphics settings a bit and it gave some extra frames, but didn't make noticeable difference. Any other idea what else to check?

[Kev2go]

I still get same issues as the OP with better hardware . 12700k 64gb ddr4 and a 12gb 3080. 

 

Perhaps not as low fps drop but still very noticeable hardware impacts. No other module is this taxing.

 

Get frame rate drops into the 30s In multi-player servers I think radar operation ( or Pave spike imaging)  plus human wso is what kills my performance. Flying solo with radar on standby  I can maintain 60 to 70 frames maybe as high as 90 on a lower pop server.  In single player I can hit 100 frames. flying high and 70-80 flying down on deck.

 

I initially thought it was a cpu issue but the wso I flew with had frames in the 90s on multi-player with a worse cpu but better card ( 12600 and 3090ti) . So maybe its a vram limitation? 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Kev2go

[PhantomHans]

1 hour ago, Kev2go said:

I still get same issues as the OP with better hardware . 12700k 64gb ddr4 and a 12gb 3080. 

 

Perhaps not as low fps drop but still very noticeable hardware impacts. No other module is this taxing.

 

Get frame rate drops into the 30s In multi-player servers I think radar operation ( or Pave spike imaging)  plus human wso is what kills my performance. Flying solo with radar on standby  I can maintain 60 to 70 frames maybe as high as 90 on a lower pop server.

 

 

 

I thought I noticed better performance in narrow scan than wide.  I was gonna say something but...I wasn't sure.

Makes me want to ask a few things...

 

First, can we get an even lower tickrate or can we get a "Low CPU" model that's DRASTICALLY simpler and lower demand.

 

Second, as another separate option can we get a configuration file to limit the jet to narrow scan or make it default to narrow scan and prevent Jester from going wide unless told?

[Cobra847]

First, we'll ship our hotfix which should improve radar CPU performance impact - then we will circle back and try to find these hotspots for everyone.

[emc]

4 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

First, we'll ship our hotfix which should improve radar CPU performance impact - then we will circle back and try to find these hotspots for everyone.

Awesome news, looking forward! btw beside my old HW... you guys rock with all effort bring Phantom to live!

[PhantomHans]

7 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

First, we'll ship our hotfix which should improve radar CPU performance impact - then we will circle back and try to find these hotspots for everyone.

Glad to hear that.

My machine is doing okay with FPS, it's just randomly choking and crashing lol.