AIM-7 Tactics & Advice

[Kalasnkova74]

Given the F-4 was built around the Sparrow, perhaps it’s time to create a resource for people willing to explore the F-4Es main engagement weapon. Hopefully we can use this thread to share tips and tricks on using the Sparrow effectively. After all , Steven Ritchie and Chuck DeBellvue did just that to become aces…and managed to return in the same aircraft they took off with.

This is the section where I’d share the knowledge I have. Regrettably I used it up in the thread title. Hopefully, others here have tips to share…as we all know what awaits next(a probable visual BFM loss ) if the Sparrow shot gets trashed. 
 

 

[jacobs]

I'd like to hear from other player's perspectives what's the best technique to employ AIM-7 on the Phantom. For instance, I've put up an early 80s scenario on caucasus, I'm going 2v2 against Mig-21s armed with R-60s and their skill is set to veteran. My AI wingman is ace. I'm starting to shoot -F Sparrows at about 15nm and the Migs can shake off this first missile quite easy... we end up on a dogfight and it's pretty easy to loose to those damn AI Migs. 

[diego999]

I feel the same as when I fly the F1 and I shoot 530s at the enemy: the limited radar and missile capabilities only allow to shoot once and I'm already at the merge. BVR is a distant dream.

More practice is needed as this is probably due to operator error, but I'm getting exactly the same vibes.

[Kalasnkova74]

47 minutes ago, jacobs said:

I'd like to hear from other player's perspectives what's the best technique to employ AIM-7 on the Phantom. For instance, I've put up an early 80s scenario on caucasus, I'm going 2v2 against Mig-21s armed with R-60s and their skill is set to veteran. My AI wingman is ace. I'm starting to shoot -F Sparrows at about 15nm and the Migs can shake off this first missile quite easy... we end up on a dogfight and it's pretty easy to loose to those damn AI Migs. 

One tactic I’ve read about (but never applied) is launching an AIM-7 without a radar lock and then illuminating the target to guide a weapon in flight. It was recorded as a tactic during the 1970s ACEVAL exercises, so it may be just a one-off experiment. 
 

A more practical suggestion from a similar document is to launch and “crank” ,meaning turning to the maximum radar angle possible while illuminating the target. That 59.9 degree or less turn from centerline - theoretically- puts the launching aircraft at a more advantageous position above or below the intended target instead of just driving straight ahead. This way you avoid immediately entering a BFM merge if the target evades. It’s an easier tactic with modern (relative to the F-4E) radars.
 

 

[MBot]

Unless you are doing a high altitude bomber intercept, I think we have to let go of the idea that the Sparrow is a BVR weapon. Especially the AIM-7E. Instead I think we have to look at it as an option for a head-on shot. This might seem redundant considering AIM-9L/M, but we have to remember that F-4E in USAF received all-aspect Sidewinders only just before being decommisioned. For its entire front-line USAF service live it was equipped with rear aspect Sidewinders, so having a head-on capability into the merge with the AIM-7 is significant.

I had pretty good success against AI MiG-23 with AIM-7E-2 when getting an early tally. At 5 NM you can initiate a lock with Cage or CAA, then get a shot off at 2-3 NM. These were pretty successful. On the other hand this tactic works very bad against MiG-21 (same scenario just switched plane type). Locks take considerably longer to build up and bad locks are very common (fluctuating closure rate, fluctuating ASE, probably lock on side lobe or something). Is the smaller RCS of the MiG-21 making such a huge difference here? Perhaps in 1 out of 10 cases I had been able to get a Sparrow off prior the merge against the MiG-21, while against the MiG-23 I get a successful AIM-7 shot with a kill in perhaps 90% of the cases.

[PhantomHans]

If I can get below them to get a look up aspect with the radar and Jester can find and lock them, I'm getting locks on MiG-21s at 10ish miles.

That gives me enough time for a pre merge Sparrow shot.  The first one they can often ditch, but as he goes beam it seems like pressing my attack for a second launch gets me kills.

If he has a wingman than relies on mine to get the other bandit or keep him at least off my six.

[GaryIKILLYOU]

3 hours ago, MBot said:

Unless you are doing a high altitude bomber intercept, I think we have to let go of the idea that the Sparrow is a BVR weapon. Especially the AIM-7E. Instead I think we have to look at it as an option for a head-on shot. This might seem redundant considering AIM-9L/M, but we have to remember that F-4E in USAF received all-aspect Sidewinders only just before being decommisioned. For its entire front-line USAF service live it was equipped with rear aspect Sidewinders, so having a head-on capability into the merge with the AIM-7 is significant.

I had pretty good success against AI MiG-23 with AIM-7E-2 when getting an early tally. At 5 NM you can initiate a lock with Cage or CAA, then get a shot off at 2-3 NM. These were pretty successful. On the other hand this tactic works very bad against MiG-21 (same scenario just switched plane type). Locks take considerably longer to build up and bad locks are very common (fluctuating closure rate, fluctuating ASE, probably lock on side lobe or something). Is the smaller RCS of the MiG-21 making such a huge difference here? Perhaps in 1 out of 10 cases I had been able to get a Sparrow off prior the merge against the MiG-21, while against the MiG-23 I get a successful AIM-7 shot with a kill in perhaps 90% of the cases.

This basically mirrors my experience as well. Es and E-2s I treat the same as R3Rs. The F and M change the game up a little bit, and if employed within Rmax2, at co or lower altitude have had great results of negating the merge entirely, but those opportunities require a lot to go right and just a handful of things can go wrong and you're now doing the climbing egg routine. 

[HWasp]

12 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

One tactic I’ve read about (but never applied) is launching an AIM-7 without a radar lock and then illuminating the target to guide a weapon in flight. It was recorded as a tactic during the 1970s ACEVAL exercises, so it may be just a one-off experiment. 
 

A more practical suggestion from a similar document is to launch and “crank” ,meaning turning to the maximum radar angle possible while illuminating the target. That 59.9 degree or less turn from centerline - theoretically- puts the launching aircraft at a more advantageous position above or below the intended target instead of just driving straight ahead. This way you avoid immediately entering a BFM merge if the target evades. It’s an easier tactic with modern (relative to the F-4E) radars.
 

 

Launching without radar lock is the only way to engage targets effectively at low alt and even below you.

You need to select BST mode and set the Speedgate in the WSO pit with the Aspect knob for appropriate closure speed. (Jester won't be able to help with this, so either get a human WSO or just "jump" back there and set it yourself)

For me Aspect knob to FWD works best (target hot), then visually track the target with the gun piper until impact.

 Crank is the most basic BVR thing, the purpose is to decrease your closure to the bandit, while still guiding your own missile. The "advantage" is the decreased closure speed itself, maybe coupled with a dive (still within radar gimbal limits) to either decrease the effective range of the enemy's missile launched at you, or just to simply buy more time before a potential merge with non-bvr capable targets.

Edited May 30, 2024 by HWasp
Correction

[Gunfreak]

Half the time Jester can't get a proper  lock. 

If you spot the enemy visually put the sight on them. Go to cage. Hit auto acquisition. Hit heat, once you get lock change to radar. Fire, follow the enemy and you'll usually hit even with E2 Sparrow. It gives you "1 free kill" before you get into a dogfight.

[Kalasnkova74]

Does anyone have a good breakdown summarizing each AIM-7s maneuver parameters and effective ranges? Back in SEA the USAF aces who relied on the Sparrow went directly to Raytheon for that data. Hopefully it’s publicly available for us to reference, otherwise it’ll be guesswork to understand when Jester can realistically lock and guide vs when he can’t . Further still, understanding when a boresight lock is in Sparrow parameters or not.

[diego999]

8 hours ago, MBot said:

Unless you are doing a high altitude bomber intercept, I think we have to let go of the idea that the Sparrow is a BVR weapon. Especially the AIM-7E. Instead I think we have to look at it as an option for a head-on shot. This might seem redundant considering AIM-9L/M, but we have to remember that F-4E in USAF received all-aspect Sidewinders only just before being decommisioned. For its entire front-line USAF service live it was equipped with rear aspect Sidewinders, so having a head-on capability into the merge with the AIM-7 is significant.

Interesting perspective. It matches my experience so far. 

[jacobs]

What makes the 2v2 scenario more challenging for me is my dumb AI wingman... today I tried to make him engage targets and than I turned 90º to create some separation. The enemy AI also got separated and it was easier to deal with then individually. 

[pepto]

I've been doing a bit of testing against AI, and I think I've found a fairly reliable way of slapping them in the face with sparrows. When you enter pilot cage mode, Jester seems to move the radar cursor up the scope, almost like he sees the contact beyond the 5 miles the radar displays. If you're not on the deck and use Jester context long to attempt a lock, Jester won't respond until the target gets within the 5 mile scope, only then will he lock them, which gives you enough time lob a sparrow or two at them, even with the 4 second wait time of the AIM-7E.

On the deck/in serious clutter things get a bit different, and using the above method usually results in Jester getting a botched lock. Instead I found that if you wait for the target to get within 5 miles, Jester will track them with the cursor even through clutter. If you wait for the target to pop out of the clutter, then lock them yourself using the placeholder WSO first/second trigger binds from the front seat you usually have just enough time to lob an E-2 at them.

I haven't had time to test this much in a normal mission environment, so I'd be interested in hearing how well it works for others. Also, I have mixed feelings about this method. It feels kinda gamey to rely on what seems like an uncanny ability of Jester to spot and track contacts beyond the scope and through clutter, but I'm just a humble stick monkey; I'll leave that up to you radar whisperers out there to debate.

[Maximo]

June 9th 2024.  The AIM 7 sparrow missile presently used by the F-4 and on the ECW server is definitely over engineered -- unrealistic in its current user form and is a perfect 4th or 5th generation missile with its fantastic shoot down/look down at targets at tree top level while the F-4 is flying at medium altitudes.   

The F-4 never had this 'arcade style' of perfect missile kill.  Try some low altitude F-4 AIM7 missile shots at a low fly target on mission editor and you will see that this missile needs a lot of tweeking to make its missile parameters viable with the F-4 on the ECW.  In fact, please spread the word to collect data on the use of this AIM 7 missile and forward all data to ECW Server Enigma for analysis.  The AIM 7 missile is 'too perfect' - unrealistic when used by the F-4 to simulate a 1970s AIM7 missile.

I've been shot through trees and once through a hilltop.  This is opinion only until I can upload the video.  Seriously, the F-4 is a great addition to the ECW Server (although having 30 F-4s on the server at a time is not real-world realistic) - it is the current use of the AIM7 and its missile parameters that are in question and not the F-4 module. 

The F-4 with the AIM7 is like an AIM 120 on the ECW Server...nothing defeats the missile - not chaff, beaming the missile, or flying at tree top level.  Try it-conduct flight tests and I think what I am saying will bear true.  The AIM 7 should be restricted from use - at least with the F-4 - until the missile parameter anomalies are corrected.  Otherwise the ECW Server will be turned into just another 'arcade game'.  The ECW Server is the best, but is de-evolving with so many odd aircraft with non-updated modeling currently available on the server.  Example:  The F-86, Mig -15, training aircraft, etc.

[Oldcrow Jr. 62]

I believe Casmo had a video out about using the Cage and auto acquisition mode. In it I believe I recall him saying something about which side of the radar scope to place the target for good lock on. He in the video about the 10 minute point, noticed that in bore sight mode, Radar (AIM 7's) tended to favor a right side of the scope / reticle for search and lock on. Heat selected favored the middle, and Guns the left side. Not sure if this is relevant to BVR lock on or not. I have not tried to do a lot of ACM work, but when I did training mission, and a couple of other slow moving target missions, I did find that a sparrow shot between 5 and 3 miles did reasonably well, if I wasn't pulling a hard G turn, which would cause a hard turning maneuver from the missile as it came off the rail. If I stayed within tight weapon launch parameters, I did better than expected. Even when the AIM 7 didn't guide, the AI aircraft began to notch and maneuver to avoid my missile, which set me up for another shot with Heat shots.

Don't know if this applies, but am curious from you all, if this make any sense or is even applicable to Radar Guided missile shots. I also believe that our Radar isn't a great BVR radar for search mode, and only by sheer luck again a large target will it ever get  a lock on beyond 25 miles, if that far.

[Grundar]

The radar can be slewed in CAA mode with the weapon pinky switch to scan left, right or middle, so I'm not entirely sure there is a magic spot for each weapon on that scan.  But I haven't tested that myself.

In CAA mode Guns position for example will focus left, Heat postion will focus center and Radar will focus right. These views are independent of the actual weapon selected - as far as i can see at least. I don't think scanning right for examples makes the Aim 7 any better than if you were on a central or left sided scan. Then again perhaps it is an effect of that technology at the time.

[lee1hy]

Currently this plane can only good for AIM7 at high altitude AI Bombers.


For some reason, in multiplayer, even a straight flight  target plane won't hit (less than 5nm)
but Works well for single play

Edited June 10, 2024 by lee1hy

[Kalasnkova74]

1 hour ago, lee1hy said:

Currently this plane can only good for AIM7 at high altitude AI Bombers.


For some reason, in multiplayer, even a straight flight  target plane won't hit (less than 5nm)
but Works well for single play

 

I imagine the situation will change once Combat Tree is released. Most of the USAF Sparrow MiG kills in Linebacker employed this system, as it allowed identification of bandits from well beyond lock on range of the APQ-120. 
 

[r4y30n]

Even when the AIM 7 didn't guide, the AI aircraft began to notch and maneuver to avoid my missile, which set me up for another shot with Heat shots.

You can’t notch a pulse radar. I’m not sure if you can notch the speed gate on the missile itself.

[Karon]

A bit late to the party, but there are many ways to use the AIM-7 Sparrow, such as Manual Tracking mode or the essential Boresight. On top of the usual standard mode, Cage / CAA and so on. I noticed the biggest issue with the AIM-7 and the Phantom in general is how people use them. Supbar employment methods lead to engagements with poor results.

[primus_TR]

Manual tracking is only relevant for jamming targets.  Otherwise there's no point to using it.  But I agree that in DCS, the boresight mode is more effective for employing AIM7s than regular search and acquisition, partly due to Jester being not very efficient in his role. 

[jojo]

On 6/10/2024 at 11:13 PM, Karon said:

A bit late to the party, but there are many ways to use the AIM-7 Sparrow, such as Manual Tracking mode or the essential Boresight. On top of the usual standard mode, Cage / CAA and so on. I noticed the biggest issue with the AIM-7 and the Phantom in general is how people use them. Supbar employment methods lead to engagements with poor results.

Well, not everyone as the luxury to fly with a human WSO as proficient as you

[r4y30n]

Supbar employment methods lead to engagements with poor results.

In other words, we’re repeating history, lol.

[Oldcrow Jr. 62]

On 6/10/2024 at 4:51 AM, Grundar said:

The radar can be slewed in CAA mode with the weapon pinky switch to scan left, right or middle, so I'm not entirely sure there is a magic spot for each weapon on that scan.  But I haven't tested that myself.

In CAA mode Guns position for example will focus left, Heat postion will focus center and Radar will focus right. These views are independent of the actual weapon selected - as far as i can see at least. I don't think scanning right for examples makes the Aim 7 any better than if you were on a central or left sided scan. Then again perhaps it is an effect of that technology at the time.

To a degree I see your point, but if you watch the video and his close up of the radar repeater, you will see that the azimuth and bar scans are confined to one side of the scope vs the other. It doesn't make sense, but have not had the time to test out and see if it does make a difference. With that being said, if the radar is scanning on half of the scope  and the target is on the other side, then I don't see a guidance solution being generated for the AIM-7. Maybe a side lobe might hit it or not. I'm not a radar expert, but maybe Heatblur, one of the SME's or beta testers can clarify it for us.

[r4y30n]

Are you asking about why it scans on the right with Sparrows selected? It’s basically double bound, in DCS terms. The pinky switch moves the pattern left/right and changes weapon type. One has nothing to do with the other. What you need to do is put the pattern on the side the bandit is on, get a lock, then worry about weapon selection. Once locked, the pinky switch functions normally.