What did I think of Kiowa? It needs to improve in some areas!

[freehand]

The model is fine when the performance is tweaked will be nice & light on the system for VR.

[RealDCSpilot]

[RealDCSpilot]

The above post shows why the external model looks so bad and how much PC's 3D artist didn't care about the waste of texture space with bad UV packing. This is all loaded into RAM and VRAM. A huge number of pixels are unused and eating up memory. For comparison look at the F-4E. This is how it's done.
To correct this, the whole texturing process would need to be redone from scratch.

Edited July 1, 2024 by RealDCSpilot

[LuseKofte]

17 hours ago, YoYo said:

About the "low poly model" - it's not bad, in fact the current state doesn't bother me at all. I would focus on other things.

For me it is totally fine. I fly vr. And don’t take screenshots. 
However, I do see people say it is heavy on their system. And I kind of noticed the same on a very few occasions. 
There are some oddities I hope they fix in order to get a smooth experience. 
for the poly counters, just stop it. Of course it could be better. You proved your point. But to me it is not a priority. 

[RealDCSpilot]

This is just an example how the tail section textures should be uv-packed. This leads to an 33% increase in pixel resolution aka sharpness aka crispness on each surface.

This is just puzzled together quickly with Photoshop...

[RealDCSpilot]

1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

However, I do see people say it is heavy on their system.

No wonder when i look at the cockpit textures. Each surface object needs 3 types of textures: color, roughness/metallic and normal map. Atm there is a huge waste of all that texture space with 12 texture maps in 4K resolution for 4 different cockpit instruments when they could be combined into just only 3 texture maps. As if everybody has a 4090 with 24GB VRAM.
 

[LuseKofte]

1 hour ago, RealDCSpilot said:

No wonder when i look at the cockpit textures. Each surface object needs 3 types of textures: color, roughness/metallic and normal map. Atm there is a huge waste of all that texture space with 12 texture maps in 4K resolution for 4 different cockpit instruments when they could be combined into just only 3 texture maps. As if everybody has a 4090 with 24GB VRAM.
 

Well I got an older rig with an upgraded gpu to 3080 with a G2 and relative tuned down settings. 
But I thank you for the explanation. It is obviously been build over many years and this is the consequence. 
I hope it will have an upgrade like the Hazelle did. 

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

For me it is totally fine. I fly vr. And don’t take screenshots. 
However, I do see people say it is heavy on their system. And I kind of noticed the same on a very few occasions. 
There are some oddities I hope they fix in order to get a smooth experience. 
for the poly counters, just stop it. Of course it could be better. You proved your point. But to me it is not a priority. 

I only fly in VR, so generally I can always forgive some inaccuracies in modeling as long as it results in good optimization and good FPS. Please remember that it must be a compromise between appearance and performance. You can certainly do everything in more detail, but this will require more requirements. People sometimes forget about this. @RealDCSpilot made quite a good analysis here and, in fact, it is worth paying attention to it because it will affect the optimization of the model as well.

[markturner1960]

Seems like a slamdunk to me.....Polychop may be a small operation, but does not mean we should not hold them to the same high standards. DCS needs all the performance help it can get and it should be a basic requirement of 3rd party devs ( and ED!) that texture are efficiently made and optimized......So what if it will take a long time, I think they need to look at giving the overhaul it should have had all along. Another niggle for me is the complete lack of any voiceovers in the training missions.....really lazy.......

That said, it is a great little helicopter with a lot of potential........just wish it had the same love and attention to detail poured into it, that say Heatblur do......especially at the price point we paid

[Sarge55]

Actually I prefer no voice over, much prefer reading at my own pace then advance. I think the current method is far superior. 
Perhaps put in a request for a voice over option. Best of both worlds. 

[Branli]

@RealDCSpilot Excellent analysis. Thanks for the effort deep diving into this issue. Explains allot why the performance and visuals are lacking. Yesterday did also a closeup compare with the AH-64D and the OH-58D and it is a major difference. Bigger then i expected it would after i did a closeup inspection. 

[skins45]

Nvm. I don't care about whiners' opinions.

Edited July 6, 2024 by skins45

[Schlomo1933]

Am 1.7.2024 um 10:06 schrieb RealDCSpilot:

The above post shows why the external model looks so bad and how much PC's 3D artist didn't care about the waste of texture space with bad UV packing. This is all loaded into RAM and VRAM. A huge number of pixels are unused and eating up memory. For comparison look at the F-4E. This is how it's done.
To correct this, the whole texturing process would need to be redone from scratch.

 

Pls make an own thread for your analyses. U made an awesome job ! 
 

In this 14 page long thread it will likely lost and not recognized by Polyshop.

[Mainstay]

On 7/6/2024 at 9:54 PM, Schlomo1933 said:

Pls make an own thread for your analyses. U made an awesome job ! 
 

In this 14 page long thread it will likely lost and not recognized by Polyshop.

O they see... the question is will they do something with it?

[ThorBrasil]

I had a big problem with the 6DOF limits. The solution I found was to limit the 6DOF to prevent the camera from going through the 3D of the aircraft.

You have to go to where your DCS is located and replace line 12 with the new one. X:\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\OH-58D.

Open the Views.lua file.

Default Line
limits_6DOF = {x = {xllimit,xrlimit},y = {yllimit,yhlimit},z = {-5,5},roll = 90.000000},

New Line
limits_6DOF = {x = {-0.2, 0.25},y = {-2.7, 0.05},z = {-0.17, 0.17},roll = 90.000000},

I hope Polychop updates the line to be as close to this as possible. Thanks and I hope this helps those who are bothered by this problem.

 

 

 

[poochies]

 

On 7/11/2024 at 4:49 PM, ThorBrasil said:

I had a big problem with the 6DOF limits. The solution I found was to limit the 6DOF to prevent the camera from going through the 3D of the aircraft.

You have to go to where your DCS is located and replace line 12 with the new one. X:\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\OH-58D.

Open the Views.lua file.

Default Line
limits_6DOF = {x = {xllimit,xrlimit},y = {yllimit,yhlimit},z = {-5,5},roll = 90.000000},

New Line
limits_6DOF = {x = {-0.2, 0.25},y = {-2.7, 0.05},z = {-0.17, 0.17},roll = 90.000000},

I hope Polychop updates the line to be as close to this as possible. Thanks and I hope this helps those who are bothered by this problem.

 

 

 

wow thanks for that !!! huge difference 

[ThorBrasil]

1 hour ago, poochies said:

 

wow thanks for that !!! huge difference 

I would actually love it if @Polychop Simulations updated these parameters for the next update.

With these new parameters, I can now view the top panel to start the aircraft. I use trackIr 5.

Edited July 14, 2024 by ThorBrasil

[ThorBrasil]

On 7/11/2024 at 4:49 PM, ThorBrasil said:

I had a big problem with the 6DOF limits. The solution I found was to limit the 6DOF to prevent the camera from going through the 3D of the aircraft.

You have to go to where your DCS is located and replace line 12 with the new one. X:\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\OH-58D.

Open the Views.lua file.

Default Line
limits_6DOF = {x = {xllimit,xrlimit},y = {yllimit,yhlimit},z = {-5,5},roll = 90.000000},

New Line
limits_6DOF = {x = {-0.2, 0.25},y = {-2.7, 0.05},z = {-0.17, 0.17},roll = 90.000000},

I hope Polychop updates the line to be as close to this as possible. Thanks and I hope this helps those who are bothered by this problem.

 

 

 

I changed the EyePoint value in line 9.
The old one looks like this:
EyePoint = {eyex,0.0,0.0},
The new one looks like this:
EyePoint = {0.0,0.0,0.0},

 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 7/15/2024 at 9:19 PM, ThorBrasil said:

I changed the EyePoint value in line 9.
The old one looks like this:
EyePoint = {eyex,0.0,0.0},
The new one looks like this:
EyePoint = {0.0,0.0,0.0},

 

What does eyepoint value change do?
Thanks

Edited July 19, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[ThorBrasil]

7 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

What does eyepoint value change do?
Thanks

 

it changes the distance of the cockpit from the screen and prevents distortion when turning the head. for testing purposes and that you can view. enter the cockpit and look to the sides and notice the cockpit with zero values and then do the same with the values below.

EyePoint = {0.20,0.0,0.0}, The higher the value, the closer the cockpit is to the screen and the more distortions will occur when turning the head.

 

Edited July 19, 2024 by ThorBrasil

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

1 hour ago, ThorBrasil said:

it changes the distance of the cockpit from the screen and prevents distortion when turning the head. for testing purposes and that you can view. enter the cockpit and look to the sides and notice the cockpit with zero values and then do the same with the values below.

EyePoint = {0.20,0.0,0.0}, The higher the value, the closer the cockpit is to the screen and the more distortions will occur when turning the head.

If the doors are removed, are you able to lean a little outside?

[Slippa]

And if the doors are removed, can we put our legs out and paddle our feet along like Bugsy Malone or the Flintstones?

Should I make a bug report if we can’t?

Seriously, I have this ‘boundary’ set so I can lean my head out of the Spit a little. In the Mossie I can smash my head through the front windows and rest my chin on the nose. Not ideal. I don’t think I’ve ever fiddled with it though?

[ThorBrasil]

3 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

If the doors are removed, are you able to lean a little outside?

It is not possible to do this. It is a single value regardless of whether it is with or without the doors.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

17 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

It is not possible to do this. It is a single value regardless of whether it is with or without the doors.

Yes I see ok. I fly the Kiowa without doors on mostly and if I lean out I can actually see the area behind the pods. Maybe the values for the left and right sides i could leave as default. Would that be the x or y values?

Update: I adjusted two values. 0.1 and 0.35 gave me a bit more 'zoom in'. Thanks!

EyePoint = {0.1,0.0,0.0}, 
limits_6DOF = {x = {-0.2, 0.35},y ={-2.7, 0.05},z = {-5,5},roll = 90.000000},

Edited July 20, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[ThorBrasil]

1 hour ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

Yes I see ok. I fly the Kiowa without doors on mostly and if I lean out I can actually see the area behind the pods. Maybe the values for the left and right sides i could leave as default. Would that be the x or y values?

z = {Left, Right}