Flight Model Review

[Dangerzone]

I'm very interested in the flight model and how the OH-58 behaves. Are there any RL pilots here? If so - are you able to comment on what you think of the flight model? I'm hearing a lot of chatter that PC have nailed this, and it's the most 'as close to RL' flight model that DCS now has for a helicopter. Is this true? 

What are people's opinions of the flight characteristics of this helicopter (as far as realism is concerned)?

[Viking 1-1]

Check CasmoTV on Youtube.  He flew the Warrior in RL and is very happy with the flight model. 

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, Viking 1-1 said:

Check CasmoTV on Youtube.  He flew the Warrior in RL and is very happy with the flight model. 

Cheers. Have now been told personally by another RL pilot that they think it's the most realistic helicopter flight model in DCS! That's a very strong endorsement for me! That, and the endorsement from the complaints about exterior graphics are all the recommendations I need. (I figure, if the biggest complaints coming out are about external textures, then it must be a pretty solid module. If it had issues, there'd be more to complain about than that ). 

Looking forward to getting to know this bird this weekend!

Edited June 7, 2024 by Dangerzone

[karasinicoff]

Everyone seems worship the new Kiowa module but in my personal opinion this module is not flyable in the battle field at all.

Market and money flow does not lie. If you happy with it buy for $70 go ahead, who cares. it is an imitation anyway not a real thing.

 

[Spetz]

39 minutes ago, karasinicoff said:

Everyone seems worship the new Kiowa module but in my personal opinion this module is not flyable in the battle field at all.

Market and money flow does not lie. If you happy with it buy for $70 go ahead, who cares. it is an imitation anyway not a real thing.

 

Not flyable, or you can’t fly it? Can you expand on what you think the issue is? 

[Dangerzone]

1 hour ago, karasinicoff said:

Everyone seems worship the new Kiowa module but in my personal opinion this module is not flyable in the battle field at all.

Market and money flow does not lie. If you happy with it buy for $70 go ahead, who cares. it is an imitation anyway not a real thing.

 

Worship? Not flyable? They're pretty extreme perspectives? What about the Kiowa's flight model is 'not flyable at all'? 

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

I suspect he considers it unflyable because his personal grievances with the Gazelle have not yet been addressed or some such nonsense.

[Viking 1-1]

Maybe he complains that it is a scout aircraft and therefore we don't have that much gameplay on DCS, since every other aircraft has a tgp for its own and can carry more weapons.

On my end I can't wait to multicrew this thing and find and laser targets for fixed wing or apaches.

And regarding the flight model again: I was also like "What? No way. This handles way to easily" Then I checked Casmo again and he says, that this is very realistic. So why shouldn't I trust a guy who flew it in real life? This also makes me fully understand why Casmo says that the Kiowa was his favourite aircraft to fly.

It is just a joy to fly!

[cfrag]

5 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

in my personal opinion this module is not flyable in the battle field at all.

That's good to know, thank you for sharing your opinion, which appears to be an outlier. Now, it would help many of us if we could see how your assertion can be better understood, put in context. Because, at this point, it would be akin to me saying "my personal opinion of freshly baked cinnamon rolls is that they are horrible". It may be a true from my personal taste, but it's hardly something that has wider meaning outside my own personal sphere. 

5 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

If you happy with it buy for $70 go ahead, who cares. it is an imitation anyway not a real thing

Hmm. Isn't that a non-sequitur in the context of DCS? All DCS modules here are imitations. You come a bit across like someone who has an axe to grind and who doesn't mind being a bit scatter-brained only to throw some shade on a product. Is everything all right?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

10 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I'm very interested in the flight model and how the OH-58 behaves. Are there any RL pilots here

Yes, if you do a search here on the forum you’ll find several existing threads about the FM, and some of the commenters are real KW pilots or have flown other Bell helicopters and they all endorse it (or parts of it).

[karasinicoff]

There are quite number of Youtubers brag ' I used to fly real helo so my opinion is just right, follow me' yeah ? I dont know what you did in the air. I believe actually If you were in Night stoker.

I saw a lot of this kind of manuavers in light chopper as live around farms, tight sharp turn in Nap of the earth flight type with heavy loads.

If you attempt this manuaver in DCS, simply you got crash. Try it. early Gazelle was almost able to do it though.

 

[Dangerzone]

Just spent a few hours in this thing. FANTASTIC! Turning off the SCAS operates as I expect (and is a bit of fun).   Turning it on, makes it such a tame machine!  My FM concerns were unwarranted! 

[Hiob]

21 minutes ago, karasinicoff said:

There are quite number of Youtubers brag ' I used to fly real helo so my opinion is just right, follow me' yeah ? I dont know what you did in the air. I believe actually If you were in Night stoker.

I saw a lot of this kind of manuavers in light chopper as live around farms, tight sharp turn in Nap of the earth flight type with heavy loads.

If you attempt this manuaver in DCS, simply you got crash. Try it. early Gazelle was almost able to do it though.

 

You mean YOU can’t do it.

I saw  youtubers doing incredible things with the Hip and Huey, comparable to the stuff shown in that video.

Also, most people know that flying a helicopter in DCS is actually much harder than in RL - for obvious reasons.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, karasinicoff said:

Try it.

I did, yesterday. The Kiowa does those U-turns just fine (I know those manoeuvres have a proper name but I can’t recall it right now).

Edited June 7, 2024 by Raven (Elysian Angel)

[edmuss]

Likewise, no really issues throwing the KW around, it's really forgiving and with the SCAS almost as stable as the ka50.  Stupendously easy to hover and trim out, take the SCAS away and it's a lot more flighty, more akin to the gazelle but feels lighter than the huey.

[Gunfreak]

2 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

There are quite number of Youtubers brag ' I used to fly real helo so my opinion is just right, follow me' yeah ? I dont know what you did in the air. I believe actually If you were in Night stoker.

I saw a lot of this kind of manuavers in light chopper as live around farms, tight sharp turn in Nap of the earth flight type with heavy loads.

If you attempt this manuaver in DCS, simply you got crash. Try it. early Gazelle was almost able to do it though.

 

Can't speak for random youtuber.

But Casmo is the real deal both Kiwoa and Apache. And he's been wounded in action. I've not seen anyone doubt his credentials. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

There are definitely some former-military-pilots-turned-youtuber who are in it for the views and to have their egos stroked basically. Casmo is not one of those people.

[Yurgon]

4 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

There are quite number of Youtubers brag ' I used to fly real helo so my opinion is just right, follow me' yeah ? I dont know what you did in the air. I believe actually If you were in Night stoker.

I agree that we shouldn't take everything some random dude says at face value. There were impostors claiming to be something they weren't, and that's likely to happen again. They usually get called out by the real pilots fairly quickly.

Then again, I have yet to hear a substantiated claim against the Kiowa flight model. And I don't mean the flying sideways at 200 knots thing, which is clearly a glitch.

So far, a few people who most definitely are the real deal gave the Kiowa flight model their blessing, and a few others who claim to have flown this or similar helicopters were also quite impressed. Were they lying about their credentials? Maybe, that's certainly a possibility.   

But then someone could be lying about being a member of the 160th SOAR - how would you know to believe them? Besides, I'm not sure that regiment employed the OH-58, so why would they be more of a subject matter expert regarding this helicopter's flight model than any other rotary wing pilot?

4 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

If you attempt this manuaver in DCS, simply you got crash.

I have tried these maneuvers. Numerous times. Not sure what I was doing wrong, but I didn't crash.

Anyway. What's your claim regarding the Kiowa flight model?

Edited June 7, 2024 by Yurgon

[R0NiN]

6 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

 

If you attempt this manuaver in DCS, simply you got crash. Try it.

 

Tried it... no issues- it's just a pedal turn. What's the big deal?

The real question is, is the actual reason you don't like the FM because you are struggling to learn it? I have seen no issues with the FM. Granted, I was never a helicopter pilot IRL, but I think I'll defer to an actual guy who has BTDT like Casmo. The Flight Model is just fine. Not to be mean, but maybe this is a case of "get gooder." 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

40 minutes ago, R0NiN said:

to be mean, but maybe this is a case of "get gooder." 

To be fair, which controls you use and how you set them up also have a major impact.

Not just which cams you use, which spring strength and how long the extension is but also the exact placement: just lowering the pivot point of the stick base for example can make a difference.

Whether I use my fixed wing setup or my Puma makes such a massive difference in how the helo in question feels and behaves, I imagine it has an impact on one’s opinion on the FM.

[edmuss]

32 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

To be fair, which controls you use and how you set them up also have a major impact.

This is also very true, I find it easy, but I have 25" between the gimbal and hand on my cyclic with a magnetic force trim setup, similarly the pedals have got 10" throw so fine control changes are easy

Edited June 7, 2024 by edmuss

[R0NiN]

49 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

To be fair, which controls you use and how you set them up also have a major impact.

Not just which cams you use, which spring strength and how long the extension is but also the exact placement: just lowering the pivot point of the stick base for example can make a difference.

Whether I use my fixed wing setup or my Puma makes such a massive difference in how the helo in question feels and behaves, I imagine it has an impact on one’s opinion on the FM.

Absolutely. I use an X-56, and it works just fine for me, but it's how I learned. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Just now, R0NiN said:

Absolutely. I use an X-56, and it works just fine for me, but it's how I learned. 

That’s impressive! I used to know someone who had one and I used his for a moment just to test what it’s like. It’s definitely not an ideal solution for helo flying

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I find it rolls unexpectedly at times. Might be my stiff desktop stock warthog hotas. Obviously those with stick extensions will find the FM better esp when it comes to helos. We went through months of this type of discussion with the Apache. 

[Floyd1212]

My only complaint so far is how it continues to "settle" quite a bit when coming to a hover, and even at 100% torque it still continues to lose altitude until it reaches IGE and establishes a hover.  Then after a few moments, it will start to climb at an alarming rate and before you know it you are 200 ft in the air.

Maybe I'm drooping the rotor system and don't have the audible clues (and even warnings) I am used to in the Apache?

Edit: Just noticed another thread where this was acknowledged and is being looked into...

Edited June 8, 2024 by Floyd1212