investigating Able to slew sensors even if not displayed. SOI logic.

[Furiz]

Currently if TGP is SOI and MFD page is switched to lets say HAD page, the TGP stays SOI and can be moved around in the background, same happens with other sesors, such as FCR AA and FCR AG, HAD etc.

Should sensor SOI be switched as the MFD page / MFD is switched?,

or should it be deselected, so it can't be controlled in the background?

F-16 SOI question .trk

[Rei]

I've always had to switch MFD page then cycle DMS Down Short to switch SOI. I'm having trouble loading the track file on my PC, so I can tell if that's exactly what's happening?

[Rei]

Just got the track file working, and I see what you mean. I think it it because the FLIR is still in a background page and still technically selected by the pilot. I'm not sure if this is how it works in real life or if ED intended for it to be this way, but I've grown accustomed to using the DMS Down Short.

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, Rei said:

Just got the track file working, and I see what you mean. I think it it because the FLIR is still in a background page and still technically selected by the pilot. I'm not sure if this is how it works in real life or if ED intended for it to be this way, but I've grown accustomed to using the DMS Down Short.

That's exactly why I'm asking this, I know how to work with it, but it stays selected in the background, and I don't know if this is like it is in real jet or something that needs to be corrected.

[Frederf]

Check out the Figure 1-35 on HAF dash 34 called "SOI Prioritization"

[Rei]

So according to the manual, (Page 94 of the Dash 34)

Quote

Sensor-of-Interest (SOI) Selection. SOI mechanization simplifies multiple sensor management by designating one sensor format for hands-on control. If the SOI is the HUD, the SOI asterisk symbol is positioned on the upper left of the HUD. If the SOI is an MFD, the SOI symbol consists of a line drawn around the edge of the MFD. SOI designation is a function of either the highest priority sensor or of pilot intent. SOI is designated automatically to the highest priority sensor in the following cases:

Operating modes are reconfigured.

SOI transitions from HUD to MFD.

After an IP or RP overfly with SOI on the HUD, SOI transitions to MFD based on priority.

I assume this means the TGP pylon is of higher automatic priority than something like the HAD, HTS, etc?

Thanks for replying.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Rei

[Sinclair_76]

Not automatic but pilot intent. You set TGP to SOI. It makes sense as well. For example you're tracking a target with your TGP. To maintain SA you DMS to HAD. If switching MFD to HAD would automatically switch SOI as well you would have lost your target. So it doesn't. 

Now reset the example to the beginning. Still tracking target with the TGP. To maintain SA you switch to DMS and realize a pop up bandit is transitioning to your six and you want to engage asap and switch to Digfight Override. At that moment FCR has become SOI by automatic priorization.

 

 

 

[Furiz]

Imagine for example you are in AG mode, and on the left MFG you have FCR - HAD - TGP on your MFD for quick selection, so TGP is SOI and you switch SOI to HUD with DMS Up, then DMS Left and you get HAD on your MFD, now DMS down and your HAD will become SOI.

But when you DMS Left again your FCR wont become SOI, HAD will remain SOI. Why would you switch to FCR anyway if you aren't planing to use it.

So now when you have switched to the FCR with DMS Left, you have to DMS Down again to make it SOI and you can work with it.

If you DMS Left again to get to the TGP you have to DMS Down again to make it SOI and you can work with it.

 

I take it manufacturer wanted only DMS UP or DMS Down to assign SOI, makes sense. My only concern is that you can move sensors while they are not displayed on any of the MFDs.

 

[Frederf]

12 hours ago, Sinclair_76 said:

If switching MFD to HAD would automatically switch SOI as well you would have lost your target.

Not at all. Losing SOI would not mean sensor stops tracking. Selection is just for pilot control. Autonomous functions the same if pilot control is selected or not.  When the SOI display is no longer valid then the SOI moves. There is no "selected but not displayed" or "selected in the background".

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, Frederf said:

There is no "selected but not displayed" or "selected in the background".

Does this mean our implementation is wrong?

Cause I can move TGP in the background, not selected on any MFD.

[Moonshine]

Most likely your SOI in this case is the hud. And in AG mode CCRP or DTOS, you can slew the TD box on the hud, therefore tgp moves along with it. see track attached

Test_1.trk

Edited April 19, 2023 by Moonshine

[Furiz]

5 hours ago, Moonshine said:

Most likely your SOI in this case is the hud. And in AG mode CCRP or DTOS, you can slew the TD box on the hud, therefore tgp moves along with it. see track attached

Should have watched my track:P

[Moonshine]

watched and reproduced. nice find.

Test_2.trk

[Furiz]

47 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

watched and reproduced. nice find.

Test_2.trk 505.69 kB · 1 download

Thanks, but we still don't have it reported, dunno if it should be like this or not, something to investigate.

Maybe @BIGNEWY can give us a verdict

[Furiz]

Hello,

To continue on this thread:

 

I noticed that when MFD page is switched, SOI is not switched with it, in fact, for example, if TGP was SOI and switch to something else for example HAD page on the same MFD, TGP will remain SOI in the background and it can be controlled, same with other sensors HAD can be controlled while TGP is displayed on MFD.

Example:

F-16 SOI logic .trk

Examples:

Switching from AA radar to GM radar while AA radar is SOI, GM radar is not SOI when switched to:

F-16 AA to GM not SOI .trk

I found a video showing that when radar is switched from AA to GM the GM is SOI:

Start from 8:27 in the video:

 

 

I didn't find anywhere in HAF -34 where it says that some sensor can be controlled in the background.

I believe SOI should change with page switch, might be worth to investigate.

Thanks.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Furiz

[Furiz]

Is this gonna get ignored?  

[SickSidewinder9]

I thought they consulted with real pilots on this stuff.  Doesn't seem like it would be classified or restricted either.

[Furiz]

Sensors remain SOI even after they are no longer displayed the MFD, so if MFD display is switched with DMS left (if on left MFD) from for example TGP, which is currently SOI, to HAD then HAD will not become SOI but instead TGP will remain SOI and is slewable in the background.

For me it makes no sense to have some other sensor not displayed remain SOI, it should switch automatically to other displayed sensor or if not able to make the page displayed SOI (SMS for example) SOI should go to HUD.

Here is a track to show what I mean with this: F16 able to slew sensors while not on MFD.trk

This was already discussed here:

 

I think this is worth investigating. Thank you.

Edited June 18, 2024 by Furiz

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged please PM any public evidence to me

thank you