reported Flaps not lowered using auto shut down

[ex81]

Flaps should be lowered when shuting down engines in the A10 II. But they don`t.

FlapsTrack.trk

Edited July 28, 2024 by ex81
track upload

[ASAP]

This is inaccurate. The correct position for the flaps is UP when the aircraft is shutdown. As the pilot pulls into the parking spot after a flight they open the speed breaks and lower the flaps for the crew chief to inspect them. Unless the crew chief asks the pilot to leave them down after checking them, the standard procedure is to raise the flaps and close the speed breaks prior to shutting down the engines.

Edited July 28, 2024 by ASAP

[demolish56]

25 minutes ago, ASAP said:

This is inaccurate. The correct position for the flaps is UP when the aircraft is shutdown. As the pilot pulls into the parking spot after a flight they open the speed breaks and lower the flaps for the crew chief to inspect them. Unless the crew chief asks the pilot to leave them down after checking them, the standard procedure is to raise the flaps and close the speed breaks prior to shutting down the engines.

 

It starts cold start flaps down is that how it should be?

[ex81]

 When you follow the text that appears in the top right corner when you use "auto shut down", it says Flaps down. What is right or wrong in real life, I don`t know. If ASAP is right, it is a bug .

[Yurgon]

13 hours ago, ex81 said:

Flaps should be lowered when shuting down engines in the A10 II. But they don`t.

Seeing the same in your track; the text for the AUTOSTOP SEQUENCE notes FLAPS DOWN circa 13 seconds after the beginning of the sequence, but the flaps switch stays in the UP position, as do the flaps themselves. Both engines are still running and hydraulic pressure is nominal at this stage, so it seems the flaps switch is simply no longer actuated.

6 hours ago, ASAP said:

The correct position for the flaps is UP when the aircraft is shutdown.

I guess since the AUTOSTOP SEQUENCE is already broken as far as the flaps are concerned, this would be as good a time as any to request for the flaps to be either omitted, or actually put to the up position, during this sequence, right?

[Yurgon]

Huh, would you look at that. I just looked at the AUTOSTOP SEQUENCE again to double check. Turns out, the Flaps Switch is moved up one position. So basically it does the right thing, but the label is wrong. Maybe that's a good thing.

I've filed a report and asked to change both the text from "FLAPS DOWN" to "FLAPS UP" and to issue the flaps-up-action twice to make sure the flaps are really up, even if they were fully down at the beginning of the shutdown cheat.

[demolish56]

43 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

Huh, would you look at that. I just looked at the AUTOSTOP SEQUENCE again to double check. Turns out, the Flaps Switch is moved up one position. So basically it does the right thing, but the label is wrong. Maybe that's a good thing.

I've filed a report and asked to change both the text from "FLAPS DOWN" to "FLAPS UP" and to issue the flaps-up-action twice to make sure the flaps are really up, even if they were fully down at the beginning of the shutdown cheat.

Could you also ask for flaps up at mission start for cold start, by chance?

5 hours ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

Also the shutdown procedures do not mention lowering the flaps during shutdown. They get set to "full up" after clearing the runway. This is the last time the crew checklist mentions flaps.

I thought this was the case. The only reason I questioned it was due to the start up checklist saying to set them how they are physically so thanks for confirming. 

[Yurgon]

18 minutes ago, demolish56 said:

Could you also ask for flaps up at mission start for cold start, by chance?

Not based on anecdotal evidence alone.

I do believe the flaps should be up for a cold jet, but this is the kind of request that gets ignored or turned down unless there are some hard facts. Since this probably isn't even covered in any pilot manual, it looks like we have no evidence. Just to be sure, everyone be mindful to NOT post manual references unless they comply with forum rule 1.16. This also includes quotes, links, excerpts, and screenshots. If anyone has access to such reference material, you can ask the community managers via PM if it's okay to share with them.

Long story short, it would probably not be changed and I think it's kind of a minor issue.

Once all other bugs are fixed and the devs are bored, or if we ever see an A-10C III module in the making, I'll be happy to bring it up.

[ASAP]

5 hours ago, demolish56 said:

I thought this was the case. The only reason I questioned it was due to the start up checklist saying to set them how they are physically so thanks for confirming. 

That part is accurate. If for instance maintenance asked a pilot to leave the flaps down when they shut down because they need to inspect something, the next pilot should make sure the flap lever is in the correct position that matches the physical placement of the flaps. That way they don't start moving on as soon as the the hydraulic system pressurizes during engine start which could potentially be hazardous.

[Snoopy]

20 hours ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

There was a video from a RL A-10 pilot some years back who gave a couple tips on how to improve the (back then v1) A-10C. One of his points was he never saw an A-10 cold with flaps down but once, which was during maintenance. So the default according to him is to have them retracted. Same with air brakes (which are correctly retracted in DCS).

Could not find the video today, nor the pilot (force majeure) sadly. Had it downloaded back then and just stumbled upon the copy a day ago.

 

Not just pilots I reported that as a bug back in 2011 (ish) when I was still testing for ED.  Their argument was they believe when hydraulic power is gone they would droop down (which is not accurate).

Edited July 30, 2024 by Snoopy

[Nealius]

On 7/30/2024 at 9:23 AM, Yurgon said:

I do believe the flaps should be up for a cold jet, but this is the kind of request that gets ignored or turned down unless there are some hard facts. Since this probably isn't even covered in any pilot manual, it looks like we have no evidence.

For other ED modules, as well as previous changes to the A-10's FM and GAU-8 performance, SME testimony is considered "hard facts".  Why is different logic being applied here?

[Yurgon]

25 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Why is different logic being applied here?

The flaps being in the down position for a cold start seems to be uncommon, but not unheard of. It's a minor nuisance for realism-nerds. I'm not going to report it as a Closed Beta Tester. From my point of view, there are bigger fish to fry and I'd rather spend my time reporting more important issues. Besides, this thread is about the flaps not reacting properly during the shutdown sequence. Feel free to file a wishlist item for the proper flap position for cold starts if you think it's worth the time.

[Nealius]

Why model the uncommon when everything else models the common? The goal posts are being moved so much to fit what's convenient that a wishlist item seems pointless as well, if the arguments for not being consistent across all modules are going to be so arbritary. 

[Yurgon]

11 hours ago, Nealius said:

The goal posts are being moved so much [...]

What are you talking about? The A-10C flaps have been in the down position for cold start aircraft for as long as I can remember.

If you wish to discuss anything else, please find the appropriate topic.