The moon is too small now (in VR)

[RealDCSpilot]

After DCS 2.9.6.58056 the moon was a tad to big. With DCS 2.9.7.58923 it's way too small now. Actually it would be right if it's scale would be in the middle between 2.9.6 and 2.9.7. Maybe looking out of the window at night once every month helps. I don't think that the moon is that much smaller over Russia.

Screenshot is fresh, taken on the Syria map. The Moon is a sad tiny white spot now.

Edited August 20 by RealDCSpilot

[TOViper]

For the time until the next possible fix (?), you may play around a bit in the

graphics.lua

in the DCS\config directory ...

Maybe changing the 0.5 to something bigger changes it. On the other hand, the value of 0.5 seems correct though ...

Edited August 14 by TOViper

[buur]

The Moon has a size about 0.52 degree on the sky. The picture looks right.

[RealDCSpilot]

6 hours ago, TOViper said:

For the time until the next possible fix (?), you may play around a bit in the

graphics.lua

in the DCS\config directory ...

Maybe changing the 0.5 to something bigger changes it. On the other hand, the value of 0.5 seems correct though ...

 

Thanks, started with checking different values.

1 hour ago, buur said:

The Moon has a size about 0.52 degree on the sky. The picture looks right.

This picture looks right (because reality). What i see in DCS atm looks like more like a far more distant planet.

https://www.pinterest.de/pin/another-day-at-the-office-with-an-excellent-full-moon-scene-on-a-quite-clear-night-awesome--547961479648671372

here comes another one:

https://www.pinterest.de/pin/bright-moon-on-night-flight-in-crj700--573294227540476932/

0.52 degree is mathematically correct, but what DCS does with it in it's code and what we get as a result not. Take the AH-64 cockpit frame into account not the HUD.

Edited August 14 by RealDCSpilot

[draconus]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:02 PM, RealDCSpilot said:

0.52 degree is mathematically correct, but what DCS does with it in it's code and what we get as a result not.

Please stop. The moon size is correct now.

This is A-10A HUD - I added red lines referencing 1 degree steps:

If it was different than that then DCS would display it wrong.

Edited August 16 by draconus

[TOViper]

Yup, looking good.
Curious to know why a bigger moon would be desirable?

Moonstruck?

[RealDCSpilot]

Then there must be a world scale issue in VR in DCS. And someone at ED was asking himself the same question and started tinkering with moon size over the last patches. It should look more like a pea not like a pinhead.

Edited August 15 by RealDCSpilot

[draconus]

3 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Then there must be a world scale issue in VR in DCS. And someone at ED was asking himself the same question and started tinkering with moon size over the last patches. It should look more like a pea not like a pinhead.

Think about it for a moment. Do other things look wrong or is it just the moon? It has to be proprotional to all other objects in the game. Even changing IPD will only change perception of size of the near objects. The sky and moon or sun will look the same either for a giant or midget. It might be the resolution and lack of details playing with you.

[Slippa]

7 minutes ago, draconus said:

It has to be proprotional to all other objects in the game.

Whose proportions though? 

 

[RealDCSpilot]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Think about it for a moment. Do other things look wrong or is it just the moon? It has to be proprotional to all other objects in the game. Even changing IPD will only change perception of size of the near objects. The sky and moon or sun will look the same either for a giant or midget. It might be the resolution and lack of details playing with you.

Next full moon is in 4 days, i hope for a clear sky.
The top window frame of the AH-64 is a good reference frame for proportions. It is quite close to your head and now look how tiny the moon is in proportion to that window.
Maybe you'll need to go outside too from time to time. Or at least, look out the window. Something is off. However, i'm kinda sick about running after problems in DCS. The latest patch introduced a new bunch of bugs again. They should start getting their <profanity> together. The 15th year is one of the worst so far. They are really loosing it.

Here is the same screenshot with boosted brightness:

Edited August 15 by RealDCSpilot

[draconus]

52 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Here is the same screenshot

Frame is not a good reference because you can move your head away and the size proportion will change. HUD symbols otoh are made to be fixed size against the sky/background.

There are bugs and problems but this is not one of them. You feel something is off and I say maybe it's lack of details because of low resolution.

[RealDCSpilot]

You still seem to not get it. This is a reference position. This is exactly where the head is. At a distance to the frame that does make sense. The screenshot is me in the AH-64 cockpit, simply looking up in the sky. In other sims the moon is also showing up bigger. So they are all wrong and DCS is the only one who does it right?

More real life impressions:

https://www.facebook.com/MentourPilot/photos/a.963992186989923/3228398517215934/?type=3
 

https://www.facebook.com/airlinkairlines/posts/a-full-moon-over-the-tasman-at-3am-captured-by-rhys-on-a-flight-in-our-cj3-from-/1492184397833072/

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/9j9psi/snapped_this_shot_of_the_full_moon_during_the_mid/

 

Edited August 15 by RealDCSpilot

[Glide]

14 hours ago, TOViper said:

Curious to know why a bigger moon would be desirable?

it's a nice cinematic highlight for a mission.  Also, as the moon is a light source, it's an easy way to light up the night without changing the entire lighting engine.  A larger moon is more fun than a "correct" moon, IMHO.

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, RealDCSpilot said:

You still seem to not get it. This is a reference position. This is exactly where the head is. At a distance to the frame that does make sense. The screenshot is me in the AH-64 cockpit, simply looking up in the sky. In other sims the moon is also showing up bigger. So they are all wrong and DCS is the only one who does it right?

More real life impressions:

https://www.facebook.com/MentourPilot/photos/a.963992186989923/3228398517215934/?type=3
 

https://www.facebook.com/airlinkairlines/posts/a-full-moon-over-the-tasman-at-3am-captured-by-rhys-on-a-flight-in-our-cj3-from-/1492184397833072/

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/9j9psi/snapped_this_shot_of_the_full_moon_during_the_mid/

 

 

The measurement should be done with a HUD like draconus did.

The Apache screenshot has a much wider FOV than any of the pictures above. If comparison would take place, it should be the same exact FOV from the cameras. From observation, the photos have a much narrower FOV than the usual DCS gameplay, as you need peripheral vision. To add, DCS has little to no outer glow for the Moon, making it look smaller than the real life shots counterpart. All these elements needs to be taken into account.

Take shots from the moon IRL with as much wide FOV your camera has towards 1x zoom and you'll see just a spot of light and not a ball.

FOV is important guys.... disregard the 'feelings'.....

15 hours ago, draconus said:

Please stop. The moon size is correct now.

This is F-15C HUD - I added red lines referencing 1 degree steps:

If it was different than that then DCS would display it wrong.

'Warthog HUD'
Thanks for the measurement and hard data. Too much 'I feel like' around these forums...

Example for the moon at 1x and 30x zoom: https://r2.community.samsung.com/t5/Galaxy-Gallery/Moon-1x-and-30x-zoom/td-p/14817034

Edited August 15 by Czar66

[RealDCSpilot]

So i tried to match a real life foto to a screen capture of what's rendered in the HMD... F/A-18 at 35000 feet. I definitely would expect to see a moon diameter nearly twice as much as currently rendered in the HMD.

@Czar66 Yes, you brought up the keyword. It might be a slightly too large FOV per camera that render each eye for the VR HMD. If any of the other parameters are correct, this is probably the only option that produces this issue. It basically squashes the image and is hard to spot because you can't bring any real object into the virtual world to reference. Question is, if that FOV value is accessible somewhere for us to check.

Edited August 15 by RealDCSpilot

[buur]

For the real life moon, maybe you have this illusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion

[RealDCSpilot]

@buur Do you even have a VR headset? You'll never understand the problem if you only know DCS as a flat game.

For info, i just did a test in the F/A-18E in the other flight sim. Made a screenshot from the right eye and yes, DCS is rendering a higher FOV per eye for the same VR headset which now really smells like the source of the problem. "More perspective" is rendered in the same space which leads to objects appearing smaller than perceived in reality.

[freehand]

I remember in 2017 with the oculus sitting in the A10 looking out of the side & looking down I thought man I am so high from the ground as would be in real life but now all is wrong regarding size not sure what they changed but not the same feeling.  

[TOViper]

2 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

@buur Do you even have a VR headset? You'll never understand the problem if you only know DCS as a flat game.

For info, i just did a test in the F/A-18E in the other flight sim. Made a screenshot from the right eye and yes, DCS is rendering a higher FOV per eye for the same VR headset which now really smells like the source of the problem. "More perspective" is rendered in the same space which leads to objects appearing smaller than perceived in reality.

Hey! I fly DCS mostly in VR since 4 years and I am interested in your statement, and have in fact two questions:
.) What makes you confident that the newer DCS version has a different FOV?
.) Did you play around with any configurations, like the SYSTEM settings page, or maybe some LUA files like the graphics.lua in the DCS/config directory, etc. to get rid of this (or make it appear like in the older versions)?

 

[RealDCSpilot]

18 hours ago, Czar66 said:

Thanks for the measurement and hard data. Too much 'I feel like' around these forums...

About the "hard data"... he measured with using a scale "inside the problem".

The coin will always have the right diameter in millimeters, yes... but that seems not to be the problem here.

Edited August 16 by RealDCSpilot

[RealDCSpilot]

8 hours ago, TOViper said:

.) What makes you confident that the newer DCS version has a different FOV?

I didn't say that. That was freehand. But i can relate to what he said. ED makes a lot of changes under the hood without mentioning them in the changelogs. Night lighting is a very good example, it was broken for years. The last time i remember having full moon as main light source and realistic ground illumination working correctly was ~2019. Then it got broken again and the moon was only a sprite in the sky and the ground always dark as hell no matter what. Especially this was problematic for LCD VR headsets because everything looked extremely dark and i stopped doing night missions at that time. This was going on for years. Now, since a couple of months, night lighting did have a really nice comeback and it seems to work well across all maps now. And i also got a "new" OLED VR headset since last week which makes doing night missions really enjoyable again. But well, the size of the moon is off... As perceived through my VR headset.
What makes me confident is -> i'm an old fart. I've simply seen many full moons in my life.
And can't do a scientific measurement to compare FOV with other sims. Because that would need the exact same 3D object being looked at from the exact same distance in both simulators. Don't have the right tools for that.
 

8 hours ago, TOViper said:

.) Did you play around with any configurations, like the SYSTEM settings page, or maybe some LUA files like the graphics.lua in the DCS/config directory, etc. to get rid of this (or make it appear like in the older versions)?

No.

Edited August 16 by RealDCSpilot

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Good. Goooood. My shrink ray is working.

[buur]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb RealDCSpilot:

What makes me confident is -> i'm an old fart. I've simply seen many full moons in my life.

 

I'm an old fart too. And also an amateur astronomer for many years. And the moon is really small. Go out at the next full moon and take a look at it. You can just cover it up with your little finger on your outstretched arm.

[Hawkeye60]

@buur

Me as well!

Use a 20 inch Obsession dob!

Named her Junior!

If you look at the moon through this scope, it will near blind you!

A real "Light Bucket"

[Slippa]

Also an old fart that’s seen many moons, I wouldn’t know where to begin measuring it but I had to laugh when I saw this after the ‘it’s too big’ thread.

It must be measurable. Do one of us need to pop up there with one of these?

Edited August 20 by Slippa
Grammar