Did not see it coming...

[leroy1964]

Until...I was hit and falling out the sky, can anyone help clear this up for me?

 

I am flying along, 500ft, suddenly I am hit (maybe a shoulder launched sam?) what concerns me is nothing came up on the warning displays, anyone with any thoughts on my demise?:cry:

 

Cheers:thumbup:

[wickedpenguin]

God said, "NO FLYING FOR YOU TODAY!"

 

Swat!

 

But seriously, it could have been a radar-guided SAM. The Black Shark has no radar warning receiver.

[Nate--IRL--]

That sounds like a tank round hitting you, but in general you should be flying as if there are threats all around you. Go through the briefing and have a good knowledge of where the enemy is likely to be before flying.

 

Even then you must constantly keep a look out for any threats that weren't in the briefing. Looking around at max zoom you should easily spot threats before they become a problem. However if a mission designer decided to stick a long range SAM in the mission, you gotta be really careful, because you will get no warning before it smacks you out of the sky.

 

Combat can be difficult, but if you take it slow and don't go in guns blazing you have a much much higher chance of survival.

 

Nate

[Safari Ken]

If you're literally wondering what killed you, the debriefing should tell you. Just scroll to the end and you'll find your death. Also, there is a 3rd-party program called TacView (I think that's what it's called) that provides VERY detailed graphical debriefings of your entire mission. That can give you some good insight on just what went wrong.

[Nate--IRL--]

Yeah good call, I should have mentioned Tacview. It is invaluable when trying to understand how to fight and fly in Lock on & DCS.

 

http://lomac.strasoftware.com/tacview-en.php

 

Nate

[slug88]

God said, "NO FLYING FOR YOU TODAY!"

 

Swat!

 

But seriously, it could have been a radar-guided SAM. The Black Shark has no radar warning receiver.

 

Or an IR SAM. The Shark similarly lacks any ability to detect those. And they are far more common in the world of DCS.

[joey45]

Or an IR SAM. The Shark similarly lacks any ability to detect those. And they are far more common in the world of DCS.

 

any aircraft lacks IR detection.. cos its passive.

[slug88]

any aircraft lacks IR detection.. cos its passive.

 

Not so. There are systems that can pick up passive incoming missiles:

 

http://usafengineers.com/modules.php?name=Bricolage&MODE=SHOW&PAGE=AAQ-24

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/an-aar-44.htm

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/siircm.htm

 

Etc..

[Frederf]

There are missile detectors but there's no such thing as an IR detector (at least a passive one). joey45's statement is correct.

[nemises]

...anyway...install tacview....

 

..it should basically come bundled with windows, thats how important it is IMHO :P

[slug88]

There are missile detectors but there's no such thing as an IR detector (at least a passive one). joey45's statement is correct.

 

From one of the links I posted:

 

"The AN/AAR-44 is a passive Infrared Warning Receiver designed to provide warning of Surface to Air Missiles (SAMS) and pass information to countermeasures systems... The system detects a missile launch by reading the IR heat signature of the missile's plume."

[nomdeplume]

"The AN/AAR-44 is a passive Infrared Warning Receiver designed to provide warning of Surface to Air Missiles (SAMS) and pass information to countermeasures systems... The system detects a missile launch by reading the IR heat signature of the missile's plume."

 

That is clever, but it's still not detecting an IR-seeker. ;)

 

Shame the BS doesn't have one though.

[159th_Viper]

Until...I was hit and falling out the sky, can anyone help clear this up for me?

 

I am flying along, 500ft, suddenly I am hit (maybe a shoulder launched sam?) what concerns me is nothing came up on the warning displays, anyone with any thoughts on my demise?:cry:

 

Cheers:thumbup:

 

Get your Head out of the Cockpit ;)

 

Unless you're being lased, your Eyes are your only reliable MLWS in the Kamov......so ensure that your route that you're flying has already been sanitised - or as you said, risk a fall :D

[slug88]

That is clever, but it's still not detecting an IR-seeker. ;)

 

Shame the BS doesn't have one though.

 

Wow, either I need to go back to english class, or you people do. Here's another quote, from the first link:

 

"The LAIRCM system is designed to protect C-17s, C-130s, and other large aircraft from infrared-guided surface-to-air missile threats by automatically detecting a missile launch, determining if it is a threat, and activating a high-intensity directed laser beam countermeasure system to track and defeat the threat. "

[EtherealN]

Wow, either I need to go back to english class, or you people do. Here's another quote, from the first link:

 

slug88, I think the you need to notice the smiley face he had there. He is entirely correct in that it doesn't detect the IR-seeker. It detects the engine blast of the missile, not the seeker, whereas with a RWR you would be detecting the unit that is seeking you (the actual radar that is tracking you, or with LWR the laser that is painting you).

 

But that aside, he was being cheeky with semantics, though I shall confess I found the wordplay amusing. :P

[Frederf]

Yeah there's a difference between a IR-based missile detector and a sensor that can detect IR sensors (no missile launch yet).

 

I was coming to the defense of the person that said something that was true that you said was false. IR acquisition systems are generally passive and as such cannot be detected. I'm picky that way that I stick up for truth.

[nomdeplume]

Thanks EtherealN, I was being "cheeky". :)

 

While the systems slag88 mentioned do use infra-red to detect missiles, they are not detecting infra-red seekers. They are noticing a sudden hotspot that looks like a missile plume, and warning people and/or activating countermeasures. It has no idea if the thing it detected is a heat-seeking missile,or a radar-guided missile, or some kid firing off some fireworks, or something else entirely that just happens to have a similar IR signature to that of a missile plume.

 

We can no more detect an infra-red seeker than we can detect if someone is looking at our aircraft with the Mk1 Eyeball.

 

That said, now that I'm in the mood for it, the original statement did actually leave room for interpretation:

 

any aircraft lacks IR detection.. cos its passive.

We've interpreted that as "any aircraft lacks detection of infrared-guided missiles" (which is, I believe, how it was intended), but the literal interpretation is such that any aircraft with any kind of system that employs IR detection would prove it false. The systems slag88 refers to certainly fit that bill. ;)

 

Now, what was this thread about again? :lol:

[joey45]

Now, what was this thread about again? :lol:

 

someone getting shot down.

[element1108]

I don't think there's a sim I've played that warns you of an incoming IR missile. Being primarily a ground attacker I've gotten use to not having any warning system other than my eyes to spot IR missile launches...or wingmen.

 

Pay close attention to where the hostile zones are and make sure you stay at arms length until you know it's safe. At that point, proceed with EXTREME caution scanning the horizon for missile trails. Those manpads are a helo's worst nightmare.

[Topgun505]

500 feet? or 500 meters? BIG difference. Though , honestly, regardless of which answer is correct there is still one thing that can be said. You were flying TOO HIGH. Helo jockeys bread and butter is generally spent being down in the weeds where radar will find it difficult to lock you up and where terrain can be easily used to shield you from LOS sensors such as laser guided weapons or the good ol Mark I eyeball.

 

I'm not saying you need to be down at like 7m for your whole trip. But when you are as high as you were, the whole world can see you and have no problem lighting you up.

 

I did a mission where there was a destroyer was offshore and it had no trouble locking me up with his radar and downing me if I got to close and I was at around 60m alt.

 

So, the short answer is, Keep your distance from known threats and take them out at range, get your head out of the cockpit and keep scanning for threats, and stay down low.

[leroy1964]

Excellent replies

 

Thanks to you all, all this information will come in handy. With regard height I thought 500 was low, not sure what it is reading but I climbed to 500 on the hud, although it seemed a tad higher outside I must say. Looked more like a 1000ft (from my parachuting days). I cannot help ask if I fly to low don't I become a risk to small arms fire and RPG's?:book:

 

I only ask as a mate of mine just came back from Iraq and he was telling me when he was being flown around in choppers they either flew high or low, damn my memory is crap, anyway he said you could see the flashes from their weapons from the bad guys below but they were always concerned re- RPG's, have I got this right?:doh:

Might have been they were flying higher alt rather than low, sorry about getting the story wrong.:doh:

 

I guess relating this back to the sim, I might have thought 500 was low?:pilotfly: