F-4 Phantom Campaign announcement: 'Red Flag 81-2'

[Reflected]

Let me officially announce my next project: Red Flag 81-2 Campaign for the DCS F-4E Phantom. Period correct maps and charts, dynamic debrief, interactive checklists, hand signals and formation signals, and basically the same study level realism that you can see in my other campaigns.
 

 

[Volator]

Now this sounds interesting! 

[LordOrion]

2 weeks (TM)?

[Reflected]

Let me walk you through the dynamic debriefing system in my upcoming Red Flag 81-2 campaign for the DCS F-4E Phantom.

 

[Dragon1-1]

Good video. I wonder if you picked up on the irony of talking about simulating "mature, adult professionals", in light of the early part, when you mentioned that early debriefs would often degenerate into "No, I shot you down" back and forth.  DCS community and actual fighter pilots who get to handle million dollar fighting machines have more in common that one would hope...  

[Zone5]

Well said, Dragon1-1. True indeed...

[tusler]

I suck at all the stuff he mentioned but I'll get the campaign cause it sound like a lot of fun in the F4.

[Hiob]

I will probably get the campaign and then never accomplish even the first mission. Wouldn't be the first.....
Let's say my ambition outweighs my talent...... (and time) 

...but either way - mad respect for Reflected and what he accomplishes in DCS.

[LuseKofte]

Well this means I need to learn the Phantom and later go through the frustration about what I thought I was proficient at, I was not. 

[Zone5]

On 1/27/2025 at 8:06 AM, Hiob said:

I will probably get the campaign and then never accomplish even the first mission. Wouldn't be the first.....
Let's say my ambition outweighs my talent...... (and time) 

...but either way - mad respect for Reflected and what he accomplishes in DCS.

Ah, but that's the beauty. Practice makes perfect. That is what professionalism is about: practice. That's why I love Reflected's work; it humbles me, teaches me, and makes me keep working until I can do it right consistently. We are trying to simulate what is a truly hard profession. It's SUPPOSED to be hard, and that's what makes it rewarding. If it was easy, anybody could do it... This will be a day one purchase for me. Hard, realistic procedures in my all-time favorite plane. What's not to love?

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, Zone5 said:

Ah, but that's the beauty. Practice makes perfect. That is what professionalism is about: practice. That's why I love Reflected's work; it humbles me, teaches me, and makes me keep working until I can do it right consistently. We are trying to simulate what is a truly hard profession. It's SUPPOSED to be hard, and that's what makes it rewarding. If it was easy, anybody could do it... This will be a day one purchase for me. Hard, realistic procedures in my all-time favorite plane. What's not to love?

“(and time)” was the keyword….

Usually Professionals don’t have a second side (main) profession. 

But I wasn’t criticising in the slightest. Quite the opposite. I admire Reflected and will keep buying his stuff (even though I haven’t finished any). But I will probably need to retire before I actually accomplish any campaign. 

 

[MAXsenna]

“(and time)” was the keyword….
Usually Professionals don’t have a second side (main) profession. 
But I wasn’t criticising in the slightest. Quite the opposite. I admire Reflected and will keep buying his stuff (even though I haven’t finished any). But I will probably need to retire before I actually accomplish any campaign. 
 

Paradise Lost is doable, I promise 'cause I did it.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Paradise Lost is doable, I promise 'cause I did it.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

That’s the one I’ve progressed the furthest so far, indeed.

[Reflected]

15 hours ago, Hiob said:

“(and time)” was the keyword….

Usually Professionals don’t have a second side (main) profession. 

But I wasn’t criticising in the slightest. Quite the opposite. I admire Reflected and will keep buying his stuff (even though I haven’t finished any). But I will probably need to retire before I actually accomplish any campaign. 

 

The Red Flag missions are doable within an hour, especially if you use time acceleration. Which will automatically reset to 1x as soon as something happens, so you won't miss anything important.

[Hiob]

34 minutes ago, Reflected said:

The Red Flag missions are doable within an hour, especially if you use time acceleration. Which will automatically reset to 1x as soon as something happens, so you won't miss anything important.

I‘ll have a look. But I was more referring to the time it takes to “git gud”. Especially in steampunky aircraft like the Phantom. Not so much about the length of individual missons.

But I feel I’m distracting from the actual topic. So enough of my personal shortcomings! 

Bottomline: The amount and quality of stuff you put into your campaigns is just awesome! 

[Zone5]

On 1/31/2025 at 9:13 AM, Hiob said:

. But I will probably need to retire before I actually accomplish any campaign. 

I'm pretty much in that same boat with you...

 

[Reflected]

Let me share a quick tutorial on the comms procedures in my upcoming Red Flag 81-2 campaign for the DCS F-4 Phantom, including radios, hand signals and formation changes.

 

 

[Zone5]

Beautiful. I was taught that good formation discipline meant that you NEVER talked to lead or they to you (kind of the gentler version of "wing, the only things I want to hear from you are 'lead, you're on fire' and 'I'll take the fat one'."). Thanks, as always for your on-going hard work and knowledge of how to make DCS do what it should do.

[Dragon1-1]

Will that be implemented into other campaigns as well, such as Zone 5? IRL, it's not just the Phantom that used similar signals. Anything tighter than a check turn would usually be signaled by the flight lead, and usually with the aircraft itself, not on the radio. One thing that annoys me a lot with DCS formation flying is when I'm nicely saddled up with my AI lead, sitting there on his left wing, and he suddenly makes a break turn into me. A visible warning would make this sort of thing go a lot smoother.

[Reflected]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Will that be implemented into other campaigns as well, such as Zone 5? IRL, it's not just the Phantom that used similar signals. Anything tighter than a check turn would usually be signaled by the flight lead, and usually with the aircraft itself, not on the radio. One thing that annoys me a lot with DCS formation flying is when I'm nicely saddled up with my AI lead, sitting there on his left wing, and he suddenly makes a break turn into me. A visible warning would make this sort of thing go a lot smoother.

Turns are never signalled IRL. And no, t won't be because the Tomcat has 2 radios, and it's easy for the lead to transmit any formation change.

[PawlaczGMD]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Will that be implemented into other campaigns as well, such as Zone 5? IRL, it's not just the Phantom that used similar signals. Anything tighter than a check turn would usually be signaled by the flight lead, and usually with the aircraft itself, not on the radio. One thing that annoys me a lot with DCS formation flying is when I'm nicely saddled up with my AI lead, sitting there on his left wing, and he suddenly makes a break turn into me. A visible warning would make this sort of thing go a lot smoother.

The problem is that the AI is doing all turns at max performance. It's practically impossible to follow their turns in formation, unless it's a minor course change. 

[Dragon1-1]

42 minutes ago, Reflected said:

Turns are never signalled IRL. And no, t won't be because the Tomcat has 2 radios, and it's easy for the lead to transmit any formation change.

For what it's worth, I do remember seeing a USAF document describing a list of signals for formation flying without using the radio, including various types of turns (although this was a modern manual, probably the good old Korea BEM). That said, I now checked CNATRA P-1242, which deals with formation flying, and it states signaling a turn is an optional step, so it seems that USN indeed doesn't typically signal turns.

14 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

The problem is that the AI is doing all turns at max performance. It's practically impossible to follow their turns in formation, unless it's a minor course change. 

Indeed, the aforementioned CNATRA document specifies quite clearly that any maneuvers in close formation are to use a parade rate of roll, which the DCS AI is incapable of. According to some T-45 learning materials I found, it's about 10 degrees per second, I doubt it's much different in the Tomcat. Dunno what the USAF uses, but probably something like that, too. If we could force DCS AI to roll at that rate, flying with them would actually be enjoyable.

Edited February 10 by Dragon1-1

[Steel Jaw]

Excellent.   When.

[Zone5]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

For what it's worth, I do remember seeing a USAF document describing a list of signals for formation flying without using the radio, including various types of turns (although this was a modern manual, probably the good old Korea BEM). That said, I now checked CNATRA P-1242, which deals with formation flying, and it states signaling a turn is an optional step, so it seems that USN indeed doesn't typically signal turns.

Indeed, the aforementioned CNATRA document specifies quite clearly that any maneuvers in close formation are to use a parade rate of roll, which the DCS AI is incapable of. According to some T-45 learning materials I found, it's about 10 degrees per second, I doubt it's much different in the Tomcat. Dunno what the USAF uses, but probably something like that, too. If we could force DCS AI to roll at that rate, flying with them would actually be enjoyable.

You've got it exactly. It really depends on the turn. Most turns in real life don't need to be signaled. What the DCS AI does is essentially "Break Left!" (or right... or goes to max performance climb or dives), which you don't do in tight formation, at least not without some kind of warning (hand signals typically because you're close enough to see them, or possibly the plane). In parade (i.e. tight), you never use maximum performance anything. Lead's max throttle setting should be 80-85% or so, lest the dreaded "lead, gimme a few inches" call. Wing always needs a performance advantage over lead in order to stay with him, because you don't really fly in formation, rather you constantly correct to get back into formation. Also, most of the changes are briefed ("at Waypoint 1 we are going to make a 1.5 g turn to heading of XXX, and begin a climb to XX feet"; "at the IP, I'll expect you to move to echelon left in prep for an overhead right break"), so wing already knows what is going to happen. Also, in real life you are only in parade where people are watching: around the field, around the boat, in front of a crowd. The rest of the time you're in a loose "travel" formation (or combat spread). When I was learning formation, my IP/Lead would call things on the radio at first, then he would ALWAYS use hand signals, and then after a few sorties, he'd start relying on wing rocks, tail wiggles, wing dips, etc. After a few more, it would be just on the briefing. But that took three-five sorties. 

In the newer campaigns, Reflected has done a great job of turning down the AI to allow one to stay with them. I've tried that in the ME myself, and it can mostly be made to work, but is very time consuming to work out, and is still limited by what the AI is coded to do. In order to really make this work like normal, the AI would need to have a mode for "lead in a tight formation" which would reduce him to 85% power, +/- 10 degrees of pitch and 10-15 degrees per second roll (or something like that. Remember, the AI often also has a different flight model than you do; "he" is flying a different airplane). I suspect that is not something ED is going to be able (or want) to code. 

Given the limitations, I think Reflected has done a great job, and keeps getting better with this. In MiG Killers, I can pretty much ALWAYS stay with my lead no matter what (the fact that the briefing and strict procedures tells me what he is going to do also helps, but that's real life). This sounds like the next level, and I am really looking forward to seeing it in action.

[Dragon1-1]

If you guys feel like beating that drum, I've bumped a thread regarding that: 

The more likes and replies it'll have, the more it'll seem to ED like it's a hotly requested feature, so keep spamming the thread.